Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mapko]

back to school for you elam boy.

You call me ELAM boy like you are insulting me, though I have never said I support ELAM (I do, by the way), yet you openly gush over the Gay Wolves and state you are friends with them. You have the nerve to call us racist and fascist yet don't see the irony of your own posts.

[Lordo]

inever tried to insult you in any way. i called you what you were. insult is if i called you somethong you are not. like you do calling me a turk when i am a cypriot. and i mean a true cypriot. not like you pretend one.

[repulsewarrior]

...curious Lordo, what would you call me?

[repulsewarrior]

...in a nutshell, do you see the value of a Greek Constituency, in a Cypriot State?

mapko, this is my original question, can you be more specific with yours, without a simple Unitary State (where it is Greek because the vast majority of its Citizens are Grecophone), can you allow Cyprus to have an identity which is more complex than the mono-clonal identities "we" have (which are mutually exclusive) today, if, as well, each Cypriot Constituency has an equal opportunity within their Territorial Jurisdictions to choose their own Identity (as Persons) first.

[repulsewarrior]

vp, i still don't think you understand (in my Cyprus) how you will vote, typically how anyone votes.

as a voter, you will vote for your five representatives: Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Maronite, and an Independant for the Lower House.

how the Federal structure will work can be defined by what is an Individual Right, and what are Personal Liberties, the domain of the Constituencies.

for example, the Federal Government enacts Legislation that is an Educational Standard for all Citizens, the Constituencies would apply this Law in a manner which serves its Electors and their Educational System.

another, each Constituency would have a Civil Structure of Equal Power, but quite different: Police, Health, Social, Land, etc. while, the Federal Government has these responsibilities to defend as Universal Principals, as well as Criminal Law, Legal Registries, and matters of State.

...can you see how your vote at the Federal level and the Constituent level are powerful tools?

...have you figured out why i harp about a population of 11 million?

...by identifying the "Greeks" and the "Turks" amongst us as each set's issue, (and where Hate when it is Identified, is a Crime against us all,) by standing united because we are more than just "Greeks" and "Turks", as Cypriots, we are Individuals and Human Beings, we can live as Greeks, and as Turks; do you see that?

repulse you are struggling for clarity, if the upper house which will be the last hurdle for any new legislative decision is made up of a GC TC Armenian Maronite, with the Armenian and Maronites siding with the GC what chance do we have? absolutely none. These people cannot be trusted they sold us out and sided with the GCs so you are asking me to accept 3 vs 1, this aint gonna happen. You need to think again. If the Upper house is made of for example 60 GCs 10 Armenians 10 Maronite and 20 TCs, there has to a minimum threshold to pass bills at least 50% from each ethnic group, if this support is not displayed then the bill fails. This is the only sort of system that would counter the total mistrust we have for each other.

...with a majority of seats the President elects to form, from these Representatives, his Executive. Each is responsible to present to the Upper House the Legislation the Government has prepared through the Committee work they lead, and the debates they have in their caucus. it is a Bicameral System indeed, but it starts at the top, as i said it is the Lower House with its sober second thought (and seats in the Commitees) which can refuse a Bill's passage.

...you still don't get it, Party's lead, not the "Greeks", etc. any politician that wants to be President of Cyprus would have to have in their list of Candidates, 50 Greeks, 50 Turks, 2 Armenians, etc., if they have any hope in winning the votes (and the number of seats) they need.

...realistically, you have mistrust, i have faith in Human kind, i believe the People of Cyprus are no different, and i believe, especially as Cypriots, the Principals they should demonstrate to be Universal. while, within their own Territorial bounds as National Identities, being Bizonal and Bicommunal, they can freely as a majority demonstrate their Goodwill as Persons to others. simply, no Greek Constituency (or any other Constituency) exists to be as an equal to your own, this is your Problem, (and mine,) we can be Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, we are not specifically Greek Cypriots.

do you get what is the bigger picture?

[Mapko]

inever tried to insult you in any way. i called you what you were. insult is if i called you somethong you are not. like you do calling me a turk when i am a cypriot. and i mean a true cypriot. not like you pretend one.

Though you didn't know for sure I had ELAM sympathies until I clarified I did, so you did use it as an insult.

You state you are not a Turk, yet your posts of full of admiration and glorification for the Gay Wolves; the Turk economy; the Turks not wanting to be in Europe and having no need to be; the Turk army's weaponry and defence systems; the Turk lifestyle and their wages; you openly challenge and confront anybody who dares to belittle Turkey and her subjects - yet I have NEVER seen you type anything doing the same for Cyprus or her people. So you are a 'true' Cypriot and not a Turk - I think you're mad and clutching at straws when the evidence of your posts are there for all to see.

[Sigh] How am I a 'pretend' Cypriot? I'm interested to know.

[Mapko]

...in a nutshell, do you see the value of a Greek Constituency, in a Cypriot State?

mapko, this is my original question, can you be more specific with yours, without a simple Unitary State (where it is Greek because the vast majority of its Citizens are Grecophone), can you allow Cyprus to have an identity which is more complex than the mono-clonal identities "we" have (which are mutually exclusive) today, if, as well, each Cypriot Constituency has an equal opportunity within their Territorial Jurisdictions to choose their own Identity (as Persons) first.

RW...I thought I had answered it. Unfortunately, in today's world, it seems as though the minority will rule the majority. We see it in everything we do. So, in this case, the only way Cyprus is ever going to be unified is if the Greek Cypriots cede too much power to the Turk Cypriots and allow them to have equality (on a political level) with the Greek Cypriots though they are by far a minority. In this way, there will be a united Cyprus but there will still be factions within both communities that will still have allegiances to their 'parent' countries, i.e. Greece and Turkey. The value of a Greek - or Turk - constituency within a unified Cyprus is massive. These two communities still have their ties to their respective mainlands but, in the greater picture, the country is free from her aggressor. With two separate communities within a larger communities it may be cause for concern - inter-communal fighting again - but I don't think the people from either side who integrate would accept it and insurrections would be quickly quashed.

If it's the only way to unify Cyprus - to have two communities - I would accept.

[Viewpoint]

inever tried to insult you in any way. i called you what you were. insult is if i called you somethong you are not. like you do calling me a turk when i am a cypriot. and i mean a true cypriot. not like you pretend one.

Though you didn't know for sure I had ELAM sympathies until I clarified I did, so you did use it as an insult.

You state you are not a Turk, yet your posts of full of admiration and glorification for the Gay Wolves; the Turk economy; the Turks not wanting to be in Europe and having no need to be; the Turk army's weaponry and defence systems; the Turk lifestyle and their wages; you openly challenge and confront anybody who dares to belittle Turkey and her subjects - yet I have NEVER seen you type anything doing the same for Cyprus or her people. So you are a 'true' Cypriot and not a Turk - I think you're mad and clutching at straws when the evidence of your posts are there for all to see.

[Sigh] How am I a 'pretend' Cypriot? I'm interested to know.

Then Kikapu must be a GC, ask him if he is?

[Viewpoint]

vp, i still don't think you understand (in my Cyprus) how you will vote, typically how anyone votes.

as a voter, you will vote for your five representatives: Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Maronite, and an Independant for the Lower House.

how the Federal structure will work can be defined by what is an Individual Right, and what are Personal Liberties, the domain of the Constituencies.

for example, the Federal Government enacts Legislation that is an Educational Standard for all Citizens, the Constituencies would apply this Law in a manner which serves its Electors and their Educational System.

another, each Constituency would have a Civil Structure of Equal Power, but quite different: Police, Health, Social, Land, etc. while, the Federal Government has these responsibilities to defend as Universal Principals, as well as Criminal Law, Legal Registries, and matters of State.

...can you see how your vote at the Federal level and the Constituent level are powerful tools?

...have you figured out why i harp about a population of 11 million?

...by identifying the "Greeks" and the "Turks" amongst us as each set's issue, (and where Hate when it is Identified, is a Crime against us all,) by standing united because we are more than just "Greeks" and "Turks", as Cypriots, we are Individuals and Human Beings, we can live as Greeks, and as Turks; do you see that?

repulse you are struggling for clarity, if the upper house which will be the last hurdle for any new legislative decision is made up of a GC TC Armenian Maronite, with the Armenian and Maronites siding with the GC what chance do we have? absolutely none. These people cannot be trusted they sold us out and sided with the GCs so you are asking me to accept 3 vs 1, this aint gonna happen. You need to think again. If the Upper house is made of for example 60 GCs 10 Armenians 10 Maronite and 20 TCs, there has to a minimum threshold to pass bills at least 50% from each ethnic group, if this support is not displayed then the bill fails. This is the only sort of system that would counter the total mistrust we have for each other.

...with a majority of seats the President elects to form, from these Representatives, his Executive. Each is responsible to present to the Upper House the Legislation the Government has prepared through the Committee work they lead, and the debates they have in their caucus. it is a Bicameral System indeed, but it starts at the top, as i said it is the Lower House with its sober second thought (and seats in the Commitees) which can refuse a Bill's passage.

...you still don't get it, Party's lead, not the "Greeks", etc. any politician that wants to be President of Cyprus would have to have in their list of Candidates, 50 Greeks, 50 Turks, 2 Armenians, etc., if they have any hope in winning the votes (and the number of seats) they need.

...realistically, you have mistrust, i have faith in Human kind, i believe the People of Cyprus are no different, and i believe, especially as Cypriots, the Principals they should demonstrate to be Universal. while, within their own Territorial bounds as National Identities, being Bizonal and Bicommunal, they can freely as a majority demonstrate their Goodwill as Persons to others. simply, no Greek Constituency (or any other Constituency) exists to be as an equal to your own, this is your Problem, (and mine,) we can be Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, we are not specifically Greek Cypriots.

do you get what is the bigger picture?

Now we have a bit more clarity, what you propose is that parties who wish to represent the country have to produce 50GC 50TC 2Armenian and 2Maronites. Lets say they have been elected and a law is to be passed all the GCs within the party have to do is get 51 votes to force the bill through, am I right? with 50 +2+2= 54...we dont stand a chance in hell to oppose anything detremental to our state. Please explain how the TCs will stop a bill when the balance is clearly tipped in favor of the GCs, is this what you are trying to achieve? why not have a minimum threshold of say 50% of members from each ethnic group with the Maronites and Armenians being thrown into the GC mix and they had no back bone in fighting for a BBF with political equality.

[Lordo]

...curious Lordo, what would you call me?

you are one of the most decent greek cypriots here. although rather eccentric and need to me more realistic in your expectations.