Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...mapko, if i may, speak for yourself, would you support what i am proposing? this is valuable to our debate; i may agree with you about your opinions, why or what an adversary says or does, but to demonstrate your individual choice is what is needed, for Peace, in Cyprus.

...you see, vp knows that "Greeks" are the same as their counterparts the "Turks", if you want him to be clear, you can make clear how far you will go, for Cyprus, by demanding a Cypriot State, Bicommunal, rejecting a Greek State because there exists as well, a Greek Constituency, like a Turkish Constituency, and like other Constituencies if Cypriots choose. he is against the State as it is, and in that regard i respect his plaint because, yes, i want a Cypriot State too.

...indeed, if it remains an issue between "Greeks" and "Turks", the Problem, the impasse is better than any compromise of the Basic Human Rights the world has fought for (and let Turkey and its shithole remain isolated by their "Turkishness"). how long will it take for the adversaries to realise that it is the Ignorance they promote resisting change that harms them, because of the fears they have within themselves. how long will it take for the People of Cyprus to realise that they subject themselves to the Imperialism of their respective Languages. how long will it take for Cypriots to realise that Bicommunal, like Bizonal, and, enclaves, are not dirty words, just because an elite chooses to sully them?

...in a nutshell, do you see the value of a Greek Constituency, in a Cypriot State?

[Mapko]

RW...Can't we have the lot? I don't understand why Cyprus can't be like every other country must be like in the fact that we can have one country but there are villages loyal to Greece and villages loyal to Turkey BUT, when push comes to shove, they are all Cypriot and they play sports for Cyprus, sing for Cyprus, fight for Cyprus and die for Cyprus. You see it in England - every city or county has had fighting and wars: Manchester hates Liverpool and vice versa, everyone hates London, etc, etc. but, when it comes down to it everyone is English. People would know which village has allegiances to whichever country - the problem is, it's not just about regions or football or any of those things, it's about trust (or lack of it), it's about inherent hate.

[Lordo]

RW...Can't we have the lot? I don't understand why Cyprus can't be like every other country must be like in the fact that we can have one country but there are villages loyal to Greece and villages loyal to Turkey BUT, when push comes to shove, they are all Cypriot and they play sports for Cyprus, sing for Cyprus, fight for Cyprus and die for Cyprus. You see it in England - every city or county has had fighting and wars: Manchester hates Liverpool and vice versa, everyone hates London, etc, etc. but, when it comes down to it everyone is English. People would know which village has allegiances to whichever country - the problem is, it's not just about regions or football or any of those things, it's about trust (or lack of it), it's about inherent hate.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about my friend. there is no country called england. united kingdom yes but england no. when it comes to vote the scotts were given the right to vote to stay in the united kingdom or go it alone and be independent.
you see soon tcs will have the same they will vote to stay in or leave the republic. i look forward to that. you can have one too to joing greece. don't say we dont give you nothing.

[repulsewarrior]

RW...Can't we have the lot? I don't understand why Cyprus can't be like every other country must be like in the fact that we can have one country but there are villages loyal to Greece and villages loyal to Turkey BUT, when push comes to shove, they are all Cypriot and they play sports for Cyprus, sing for Cyprus, fight for Cyprus and die for Cyprus. You see it in England - every city or county has had fighting and wars: Manchester hates Liverpool and vice versa, everyone hates London, etc, etc. but, when it comes down to it everyone is English. People would know which village has allegiances to whichever country - the problem is, it's not just about regions or football or any of those things, it's about trust (or lack of it), it's about inherent hate.

indeed mapko, you are correct, but Cyprus is not a value to its adversary as Cypriot, mired within the Proxy War of what Greece is to Turkey, etc., neither is their plight described in its simple terms: Cyprus is occupied illegally.

Cypriots can be Free, if they choose that their Liberty is not defined by the Nation that has the most people, but rather, that as a People they sustain many Nations. Bicommunal may be the Turkish idea that the Republic chose in defining the State's Principals, it is still up to the Greek Constituency to take advantage of its opportunity, and free the Republic of the bias that makes it a Greek State.

all the complexity of the competion within English Society in its broadest sense is no different to the complex ethnography of Cyprus, this in a sense defines them both, as Inclusive.

[Mapko]

RW...Can't we have the lot? I don't understand why Cyprus can't be like every other country must be like in the fact that we can have one country but there are villages loyal to Greece and villages loyal to Turkey BUT, when push comes to shove, they are all Cypriot and they play sports for Cyprus, sing for Cyprus, fight for Cyprus and die for Cyprus. You see it in England - every city or county has had fighting and wars: Manchester hates Liverpool and vice versa, everyone hates London, etc, etc. but, when it comes down to it everyone is English. People would know which village has allegiances to whichever country - the problem is, it's not just about regions or football or any of those things, it's about trust (or lack of it), it's about inherent hate.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about my friend. there is no country called england. united kingdom yes but england no. when it comes to vote the scotts were given the right to vote to stay in the united kingdom or go it alone and be independent.
you see soon tcs will have the same they will vote to stay in or leave the republic. i look forward to that. you can have one too to joing greece. don't say we dont give you nothing.

Lordo...What can I say? You are a first class imbecile. The things you come out make me wonder what you look like and all I can see, in my mind's eye, is that you look and walk like Charlie Chaplin...

[Mapko]

RW...Can't we have the lot? I don't understand why Cyprus can't be like every other country must be like in the fact that we can have one country but there are villages loyal to Greece and villages loyal to Turkey BUT, when push comes to shove, they are all Cypriot and they play sports for Cyprus, sing for Cyprus, fight for Cyprus and die for Cyprus. You see it in England - every city or county has had fighting and wars: Manchester hates Liverpool and vice versa, everyone hates London, etc, etc. but, when it comes down to it everyone is English. People would know which village has allegiances to whichever country - the problem is, it's not just about regions or football or any of those things, it's about trust (or lack of it), it's about inherent hate.

indeed mapko, you are correct, but Cyprus is not a value to its adversary as Cypriot, mired within the Proxy War of what Greece is to Turkey, etc., neither is their plight described in its simple terms: Cyprus is occupied illegally.

Cypriots can be Free, if they choose that their Liberty is not defined by the Nation that has the most people, but rather, that as a People they sustain many Nations. Bicommunal may be the Turkish idea that the Republic chose in defining the State's Principals, it is still up to the Greek Constituency to take advantage of its opportunity, and free the Republic of the bias that makes it a Greek State.

all the complexity of the competion within English Society in its broadest sense is no different to the complex ethnography of Cyprus, this in a sense defines them both, as Inclusive.

RW...I agree, before any negoatiations can begin, the invading army must be removed along with all its weaponry - nothing must be left behind; all squatters from the Turkic mainland must be returned back to the mainland and all generations of them (they are an illegal entity and therefore have no legal rights to be there, so if the fore-fathers are illegal, the children born there are, too); the watchtowers and sentry posts must be taken down; the illegal blockade across the island must be torn down. Once we see these things happen then we know the Turkic Cypriots are behind it whole-heartedly and then we can parlez. All it takes is for one side to start the process, but there's nothing that our side can start with because we're not doing anything wrong.

I wonder what would happen if it were down to the people - the Greek Cypriots and Turk Cypriots - to decide their future rather than having outsiders (and not impartial ones at that), or governments, or the military. I wonder if the two peoples could work together and live together as Cypriot, or whether there would be too many people like Lordo and Viewpoint sneakily going behind the scenes and stirring up trouble? Unfortunately, we'd always be in that kind of position.

With regards to politicians, we got rid of a great man in Papadopoulo for the, erm, not-so-great Christofia and he came in mouthing off about how he would broker a deal with his old sparring partner, Talat. Four years later, his old sparring partner is gone and we're no longer in any better a position than when he took over. Who to take over? I don't know - but they must be strong and they must want to fight for what is right with no ceding of power.

[Viewpoint]

vp, i still don't think you understand (in my Cyprus) how you will vote, typically how anyone votes.

as a voter, you will vote for your five representatives: Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Maronite, and an Independant for the Lower House.

how the Federal structure will work can be defined by what is an Individual Right, and what are Personal Liberties, the domain of the Constituencies.

for example, the Federal Government enacts Legislation that is an Educational Standard for all Citizens, the Constituencies would apply this Law in a manner which serves its Electors and their Educational System.

another, each Constituency would have a Civil Structure of Equal Power, but quite different: Police, Health, Social, Land, etc. while, the Federal Government has these responsibilities to defend as Universal Principals, as well as Criminal Law, Legal Registries, and matters of State.

...can you see how your vote at the Federal level and the Constituent level are powerful tools?

...have you figured out why i harp about a population of 11 million?

...by identifying the "Greeks" and the "Turks" amongst us as each set's issue, (and where Hate when it is Identified, is a Crime against us all,) by standing united because we are more than just "Greeks" and "Turks", as Cypriots, we are Individuals and Human Beings, we can live as Greeks, and as Turks; do you see that?

repulse you are struggling for clarity, if the upper house which will be the last hurdle for any new legislative decision is made up of a GC TC Armenian Maronite, with the Armenian and Maronites siding with the GC what chance do we have? absolutely none. These people cannot be trusted they sold us out and sided with the GCs so you are asking me to accept 3 vs 1, this aint gonna happen. You need to think again. If the Upper house is made of for example 60 GCs 10 Armenians 10 Maronite and 20 TCs, there has to a minimum threshold to pass bills at least 50% from each ethnic group, if this support is not displayed then the bill fails. This is the only sort of system that would counter the total mistrust we have for each other.

[Viewpoint]

RW...yes, I have one vote and in a democratic society it wouldn't matter which party was in as long as they were for the whole of the people and not just the ones who voted them in. The Turkics don't want proportional representation they want unnproportional representation - like the Armenians and Kurds in Turkey have - where the rights of the few outweigh those of the many. Can you see a Turk being impartial when there's a quarrel a Turk and a Greek (to show my impartiality, the same could be said of vice versa)?

What I was getting at was the Turk Cypriots wanted equality with us but it could never happen in proportional representation. The only way anything can be fair in Cyprus - and this sticks in my throat to say it - is for the country to stay divided.

The same could be said for GCs showing impartiality when TCs and Gcs fight lets face ti we do not trust each other one iota thats why we demand conditions that no other country would even find a problem.

[Lordo]

RW...Can't we have the lot? I don't understand why Cyprus can't be like every other country must be like in the fact that we can have one country but there are villages loyal to Greece and villages loyal to Turkey BUT, when push comes to shove, they are all Cypriot and they play sports for Cyprus, sing for Cyprus, fight for Cyprus and die for Cyprus. You see it in England - every city or county has had fighting and wars: Manchester hates Liverpool and vice versa, everyone hates London, etc, etc. but, when it comes down to it everyone is English. People would know which village has allegiances to whichever country - the problem is, it's not just about regions or football or any of those things, it's about trust (or lack of it), it's about inherent hate.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about my friend. there is no country called england. united kingdom yes but england no. when it comes to vote the scotts were given the right to vote to stay in the united kingdom or go it alone and be independent.
you see soon tcs will have the same they will vote to stay in or leave the republic. i look forward to that. you can have one too to joing greece. don't say we dont give you nothing.

Lordo...What can I say? You are a first class imbecile. The things you come out make me wonder what you look like and all I can see, in my mind's eye, is that you look and walk like Charlie Chaplin...

back to school for you elam boy.

[Mapko]

RW...yes, I have one vote and in a democratic society it wouldn't matter which party was in as long as they were for the whole of the people and not just the ones who voted them in. The Turkics don't want proportional representation they want unnproportional representation - like the Armenians and Kurds in Turkey have - where the rights of the few outweigh those of the many. Can you see a Turk being impartial when there's a quarrel a Turk and a Greek (to show my impartiality, the same could be said of vice versa)?

What I was getting at was the Turk Cypriots wanted equality with us but it could never happen in proportional representation. The only way anything can be fair in Cyprus - and this sticks in my throat to say it - is for the country to stay divided.

The same could be said for GCs showing impartiality when TCs and Gcs fight lets face ti we do not trust each other one iota thats why we demand conditions that no other country would even find a problem.

VP...I did actually state that - "Can you see a Turk being impartial when there's a quarrel a Turk and a Greek (to show my impartiality, the same could be said of vice versa)?" No matter which side you were on, there's never going to be impartiality and there will always be favouritism. There's nothing wrong with that - it's just human nature. Anybody and everybody would show favouritism to their own.

Exactly, we don't trust each other because you have too many hidden agendas with Turkey. Stand on your own two feet, stop being subservient to the mainland and then we could parlez.