Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mapko]

I don't understand what the Turks stand to gain by this. At the moment, there is no 'war', per se, in that two or more sides are fighting gun battles, etc., so there is a kind of peace. The island Turks have got what they wanted in the fact that Turkey is their protector, governor and saviour and they are (because they have to be) totally reliant on it. What could possibly be gained from tying-up relations with the racist, fascist and untrustworthy Greek Cypriots?

kinda peace is no peace. all we have is a ceasefire with 80000 greek cypriot reservists armed to the teeth waiting for attack instructions. all guns must be removed from cyprus.

All WE have is an unsteady ceasefire with, what, 500,000 Turkic FULLY TRAINED troops, armed to the teeth with the latest American weapons, waiting for attack instructions!! All Turkic troops MUST be removed from Cyprus.

The Cypriot National Guard has a right to be there (as their name suggests), the Turkic army does not.

The Cypriot National Guard only trains and do role-playing exercises, whereas the Turkic army is quite battle-hardened - fighting the Kurds, the Armenians, the Cypriot National Guard and Israeli Commandoes ( )

If you really want peace, you would be lobbying your politicians and their paymasters instead of lobbying the Greek Cypriots. We both know that will never happen, though, because your society is as fascist and racist as they come.

[Lordo]

which part of the roc constitution allows a purely greek cypriot national guard of 20000 to be created and against who do they intend to fight.

if it is turks, what are they waiting for.

but lets get back to talking peace. how many events have there been in the south that promote peace.

how would the roc media view such an event.

the turkish cypriots have been ready for peace for about 10 years. the greek cypriots may be ready some time in the next 50 years if we are lucky. but i would not hold my breath for it judging by what is posted by people like you.

[Mapko]

The Republic of Cyprus has to have 20,000 Greek Cypriots in its National Guard because there is nobody else to fill it! I'm sure if there were enough island Turks who wanted to join, there could be a Corps made up for you. They don't intend to fight anybody - nobody wants to fight all the time (though the Turkics are bullies) - but your 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' tactics won't work. 10,000 soldiers against 500,000 soldiers and you want to start a fight! That's very noble of you, but it's akin to a seven year old starting a fight with a cage fighter (you love those odds).

Ok...there have been quite a lot of events held in the free areas - wall painting, singing, etc., as there have been in the occupied areas, but the events in the occupied areas are driven by the fact you have grown to detest the mainland Turks more than you do Greek Cypriots because of how you are treated by them. We have a freedom you can never have with the Turkic army and the police.

You;ve been ready for peace for about 10 years? There you go - because you are ready that means we all have to rush around and accommodate you! We have always been ready - we never wanted a division of the island nor did we want rid of you - but you had found a good thing and you wanted that. Now, you don't want that anymore you want to go back to how it was. You're like children on Christmas Day morning - you forget your favourite toy for a new one, then get bored and go back.


By the way... which parts of the Republic constitution allows for an invading army to occupy a third of the island and fill it with foreigners?

[Lordo]

mapko you seem to suffer from selective memory. i see no mention of the clause enabling the greek cypriots to set up a pure greek cypriot national guard. When the odds were the other way round 4 to 1 against there was no such conscience onyour part. when kofunye and gochina were attacked or when there were road blocks set up and even baby milk was not allowed there was no such conscience. The odds are not that bad for really. 20000 plus 80000 reservists make 100000 and on the other side far from 500000 there is actually 25000 with some turkish cypriot mucahids. be that as it may. lets talk about the policy of settlers. you will find the root of that little problem started in 1961. when our interior minister took it upon himself to set militia and the akritas plan to eliminate the turkish cypriots from cyprus. unfortunately for him the military attack did not have the required conclusion so economic one was tried. and it nearly worked 10 more years and by 1984 there would have been no turkish cypriots left on the island. perhaps you were not aware of makarioses speech in 1962 where as president of the republic he said

until this small turkish community that forms part of the turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of hellenism is expelled, the duty to the heroes of eoka cannot be considered as terminated
so you still dont think you did not ever not want the turkish cypriots.

or when he said at the eoka graves
as we bow before their graves, we hear the commanding voices of our martyrs beyond the graves, march forward


or when all the amendments he asked for and the Dengtash agreed he replied
i already agreed on a settlement excluding enosis once I am not about to agree on another one

perhaps a few harsh truths may jolt your memory may friend. have a nice evening now

[Mapko]

There are more than 25,000 Turkic troops in the occupied areas, but when you consider how many more can be raised from the mainland, it may even be more than the 500,000 I quoted.

It's ok for the island Turks to have your taksim with the mainland, but it was never ok for us to have enosis with the mainland? The tail cannot wag the dog (this means that the small amount of Turkic Cypriots could not dictate to the superior number of Greek Cypriots - would you lot agree to the Kurds in Turkey dictating what you could or couldn't do?).

Thanks Lordo - I'll have a nice evening now I can see through your 'All I want is peace' rubbish. You come on here spouting you want peace, but still problems of the past eat away at you underneath. Peace is what you say you want so you can get what you want - money and power and everything else the Greek Cypriots have - then, when you've got it, you'll go back to your devious ways.

[Piratis]

mapko you seem to suffer from selective memory.

That is the case with you as well. The inter-communal conflict was initiated by Turkish Cypriots in the 50s when Greek Cypriots were massacred while the homes and shops of many Greek Cypriots were burned to the ground.

Until that point the vast majority of the Cypriot population was fighting against the British colonialists for freedom and self-determination. We had every right to be freed from the British Colonialists and every right to freely and democratically decide the destiny of our own island, including where our own island should and shouldn't belong.

Instead of respecting the democratic rights of the Cypriots you choose to impose your own terms by force, and collaborated with the UK and Turkey so that you would once more (80 years ater the end of Ottoman rule) refuse to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

At no point you accepted democracy and you always insisted on segregation and racist discriminations and you were always more than willing to start wars and conflicts in order to keep imposing on Cyprus your undemocratic, racist terms.

Just telling us that you had casualties from the conflict doesn't make your side the innocent victims. The Germans had millions of civilian casualties in WWII, that doesn't mean they were the innocent side.

The truth is that it is the TCs/Turks who started the conflicts and wars in order to impose by force their racist and undemocratic terms. This is what makes the Turkish side the one responsible for the problems of Cyprus.

Beyond that of course the Turkish side would have some casualties as well in the conflicts and wars they started against us. What did you expect, that you would attack us with the aim to take away our human and democratic rights, kill 1000s of our own people, and suffer not a single casualty yourselves? If you don't want casualties and suffering then you shouldn't start conflicts and wars. You should finally start respecting human rights and democracy, and let Cypriots to peacefully and democratically take decisions for their own island, instead of using force to impose your own undemocratic, racist terms.

[Lordo]

no mapko the agreement dengtash and clerides agreed in 73 was that there was no taksim and enosis. get your facts right. it was makarios who objected to excluding enosis.

piratis the world is littered with decisions that are made and wars that are lost. it really is very simple. while eoka was attacking british soldiers they should have stopped and think of the consequences about killing turkish cypriot policemen. as to burning shops and so on in the 50s it was done by both sides in equal measure.

but of course when a person signs an agreement he is expected to be held accountable except when you are a greek cypriot. you can tear it up and just ignore it. not this time my friend.

[Piratis]

piratis the world is littered with decisions that are made and wars that are lost. it really is very simple. while eoka was attacking british soldiers they should have stopped and think of the consequences about killing turkish cypriot policemen.

EOKA did not target TCs civilians in those times. On the contrary it is some TCs who signed up to help the Colonialists defeat EOKA and if a couple (not more) TCs were killed back then, those were not innocent civilians, but soldiers of the British occupation forces.

The conflict started when TCs massacred unarmed civilians and then burned down the shops and homes of innocent GC civilians. Only after this GCs responded.

Stop trying to deny the facts Lordo. The fact is that the TCs didn't want Cypriots to be able to freely and democratically decide the destiny of their own island. They would rather side with the British and the Turks to force on Cyprus some undemocratic, racist terms, which served the interests of the foreign imperialists and their own minority, on the expense of the human and democratic rights of the vast majority of Cypriots.

When it is about your aggression against us everything is very "simple" - "wars can be lost" - nothing more. But when you talk about your comparatively fewer losses, they are suddenly hugely important and they can be used to excuse anything and everything, including human rights violations and racist discriminations.

Sorry Lordo but this is not the way to achieve peace. If you truly want peace then you should stop trying to use selective parts of history out of context in an attempt to excuse racist and undemocratic demands.

If you want peace, principles such as freedom, democracy, respect of the human rights of all Cypriots and equality of all Cypriot citizens without any racist discriminations should be a given, and only secondary issues should be negotiated. If you come to us keeping our lands as hostage and trying to blackmail us to accept something undemocratic and racist, then it is clear that what you want is not peace, but merely to gain as much as possible on our expense from the invasion of 1974.

but of course when a person signs an agreement he is expected to be held accountable except when you are a greek cypriot. you can tear it up and just ignore it. not this time my friend.

That "agreement" was not the result of the free will of the Cypriot people. The Cypriot people shouldn't need any "agreement" with any foreigners about what to do with their own island. That "agreement" was imposed on the Cypriot people by means of force and blackmail and the only thing that such "agreement" deserves is to be torn and thrown in the trash. This is what will happen to any future "agreement" as well if it is again the result of force and blackmail.

[nietzschean]

[quote="Lordo"]mapko you seem to suffer from selective memory. i see no mention of the clause enabling the greek cypriots to set up a pure greek cypriot national guard.

It isn't purely Greek. There are Armenians and Maronites in the National Guard. People whose homes and cultural sites now lie in ruins, often used as toilets in the occupied territories.

[Lordo]

When will you understand piratis that there are a few countries in the world where the majotiry does not have absolute right to do what it chooses and has to mindful of other cypriot people who also have the right not to join you in your enosistic activities. in a democracy you have to respect the wishes of all nationalities who live in a country otherwise people choose to seperate. You wanted you tried to force it and you see the result.

when it comes to destroying other peoples property nitz baby you will find that both sides are guilty of that one on equal measure. however when it comes to nationalities of Cyprus i am afraid the maronites and armenians do not have national rights they are part of the greek cypriot nationality winhin the constitution. now there is conscription in the south and all have to take part. is there a single turkish cypriot soldier in the national guard particularly at the officer levels.