Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Yes Golden Dawn is a neo-Nazi party. They say so themselves.

Looking after your own family is fine. No one in their right mind has labelled that racism. Excluding or persecuting someone on the basis of their 'race' is racism. Just one example of Golden Dawn explicitly denying 'food assistance' - clearly a propaganda stunt - is seen at http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/news/international-news/neo-nazi-party-gives-free-food-to-greek-citizens-only When the German Nazi Anschluss with Austria took place in 1938, the first thing that happened in an historically tolerant Vienna was the marching and chanting on the streets of mobs "Deutschland erwache! Juda verrecke !" (Germany awake ! Jews [to] perish). The emergence of Golden Dawn has followed a similar path ..... various crises afflict the Greek state and Golden Dawn's only response is eliminate the foreigners, the immmigrants, and so on. Classic Nazi politics. There is no doubt that Golden Dawn is neo-Nazi.

Look at Golden Dawn's approach to health and medicine, in this case, blood banks. It is explicitly racist. There's no two ways about it : http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/news/international-news/far-right-drive-for-greek-blood-bank-angers-medics

Amongst the things that make Golden Dawn a neo-Nazi party is that in common with other populist movements they blame the strife and troubles of the country on (a) foreigners, (ii) immigrants and (iii) 'traitors', almost always defined in bogus racial and national terms. It doesn't occur to these numbskulls - that's their fourth characteristic, they are unbelievably ignorant - that a country's economic woes might be to do with inept industrial policy, incompetent regulators, or fraudulent bankers or self-serving CEOs. Capital has no country; it will strip you regardless of whether your Greek, Cypriot, Turkish, British or Vietnamese.

Anybody know what Golden Dawn's monetary policy is ? Anybody know what zoning or planning policies will improve safety for schoolchildren or the elderly ? Anybody know what Golden Dawn's approach to maternal mortality rates is ? Anybody know if Golden Dawn has worked out a income tax or corporate tax policy ? The answer to all those and many other questions is "No". Why ? Because Golden Dawn, as a neo-Nazi party, has no interest and no understanding of society, let alone social wellbeing, for Greeks. Anything which doesn't fall into the knuckle-dragging violence of hatred of foreigners and immigrants has no place with Golden Dawn. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Their politics is totally limited to how to pick a fight in a bar.

[CopperLine]

kimon07...I'm glad you said 'alleged' activities of Χρυσή Αυγή because we don't know if the actions against immigrants - illegal or otherwise - are really caused by their followers or their enemies. It's not beyond the actions of the poeple who are against Χρυσή Αυγή to beat up some immigrants and blame it on Χρυσή Αυγή - who will listen to them?

Ever since the end of WWII, the west has tried - and loved - to label any organisation that was patriotic to its own as 'Nazis'. In England, the English love the fact they are a diverse country and welcome any and all cultures - to the detriment of their own. The immigrants prey on the fact the English are scared of being labelled racists and play on it. There have been many stories of people being forced by councils to take down England flags when England play in the World Cup, or Union flags when GB play for fear of offending Asians, but it's ok for Asians to cheer on Pakistan when it plays England in cricket. The English are so stupid they can't see everyone is laughing at them! There is the British National Party, a party that promotes Britishness, jobs for the British and British first - guess what? They've been labelled as Nazis. Tony Blair, a few years ago, apologised to the Africans for Britain's role in slavery!! Why? This was over 200 years ago and nobody alive now had anything to do with it. In actual fact, the Africans should be eternally rateful to the west for bringing them out of the crap hole they now live in where they can aford to walk around in tracksuits, wearing Nike trainers, driving BMW's, dealing in drugs and pimping!

Every country should look after its own first. Are the Americans, Australians or Canadians branded racists for not allowing everyone in and having a scoring criteria to be able to live in those countries? No, but it's ok for the stupid British to work like dogs so immigrants can come here and claim benefits.

The western white man is screwed.

Total bollocks from beginning to end. Not a single shred of evidence for any of this opinionated garbage. Just food for neo-Nazis.

[Piratis]

Excluding or persecuting someone on the basis of their 'race' is racism.

We agree about GD, so no need to debate that.

But the Turkish leadership for decades are racist fascists as well, and they are elected by the votes of the majority of Turks, not just the 6% that GD receives.

The Turkish invaders have murdered 1000s and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of innocent people in Cyprus solely on the basis of their race. And this was not the action of just some crazy individual leader, but a policy that was prepared for decades before and which continues to be supported decades later.

And this racism is not just against Cypriots, but against many other native populations that the Turks want to exterminate. They committed a genocide against millions of Greeks and Armenians which until today they refuse to even recognize. They have murdered over 40.000 Kurds and they continue killing more and more each day.

GD are racists and they are a problem. But we obviously have far bigger problems, with Nazi racists who are in control of big armies and who go around exterminating whole populations by the 1000s and millions. Do you disagree CopperLine?

[Mapko]

CopperLine...[Yaaaaaawn] Have you finished your boring rhetoric? You spend too long jumping on the badwagon and trying to find negatives (as shown in your anti-fascist magazine fo choice) instead of trying to find truths. You are one of the reasons that this world is in such a crappy state - you seem to hate your own kind (what that may be I'm not sure, but I could hazard a guess) and fall over yourself to be seen as a politically correct, soul brother who loves everyone and wants everyone to love him. In the event of any race war - which I can guarantee is coming (in my lifetime or not) - whether you show yourself to be anti-fascist or not, the people you choose to protect will come for you.

You make a big deal out of the blood bank issue but, if I give blood, why shouldn't I choose who it goes to? It's my blood, mine to give and the health authority doesn't want me to choose, then they don't get the blood they are so desperate to get.

Χρυσή Αυγή are loking after their own - Greeks - which people seem to take as being racist. That was the point I was making. So, for example, because they don't want to send billions of Euros to Africa so the money can be wasted, as it seems it has been for decades, and they want Greeks to be looked after, they are a racist organisation? Hmm...if you and your family were starving and found some food, would you share that food with your neighbour and his family (who were also in the same predicament) or would you keep your family safe first? Now, the same question but your neighbours are illegal immigrants sponging off the state and have never done a fair day's work or contributed anything to the economy. Would you still be so sharing? I doubt it.

You want websites? I can provide them...
http://brokenborders.blogspot.co.uk/
http://www.europeanborderwatch.org/

Illegal immigrants move for one reason and one reason only - their existence is so crap and they have no money and no education so they move to leech from another society. If they had something to offer, they wouldn't be illegal.

I've said this before, many times, and I'll say it again - no matter who you are or what your political/moral stances are, everyone and I do mean EVERYONE, is inherently racist.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The hypocrites with their selective, basically anti-Greek, propaganda remind of extremists like Rush Limbaugh in their thinking:

Remember when he tried to denigrate Obama's healthcare logo as being like a Nazi symbol?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washing ... stika.html

And also a certain Lord calling Environmental Activists "Hitler's Youth"?

http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-res ... video.html

And how many times have the Right wing extremists called the greens "EcoFascists"?

The list goes on and we can add ZoC's thread and newspaper article to these.

The tactics are the same. But by using the label "Nazi" to everything that these fascists themselves hate (and let's face it - it is the extreme fascists who actually hate what Greece stands for) they are merely condoning what Hitler's Nazis actually DID! By comparing GD to Nazis (and ignoring the worse atrocities of governments in power), they are belittling the fact of 6 Million Jews being rounded up and killed by the real German Nationalsozialismus and its followers who invade other's countries to kill and ethnically cleanse for their own profit.

[Cap]

The one thing they keep reiterating is the ancient Greek symbol, of which the leftist scum so desperately want to connect with the swastika.
They're trying to convince the world that its some kind of modified adaptation of the Nazi symbol even though it predates the swastika by millenia.

[CopperLine]

Excluding or persecuting someone on the basis of their 'race' is racism.

We agree about GD, so no need to debate that.

But the Turkish leadership for decades are racist fascists as well, and they are elected by the votes of the majority of Turks, not just the 6% that GD receives.

The Turkish invaders have murdered 1000s and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of innocent people in Cyprus solely on the basis of their race. And this was not the action of just some crazy individual leader, but a policy that was prepared for decades before and which continues to be supported decades later.

And this racism is not just against Cypriots, but against many other native populations that the Turks want to exterminate. They committed a genocide against millions of Greeks and Armenians which until today they refuse to even recognize. They have murdered over 40.000 Kurds and they continue killing more and more each day.

GD are racists and they are a problem. But we obviously have far bigger problems, with Nazi racists who are in control of big armies and who go around exterminating whole populations by the 1000s and millions. Do you disagree CopperLine?

Have Turkish governments been Nazi ? No. Have many of them tended to fascism ? Yes. Have some Turkish governments (and some laws) been racist ? Yes. Are Turks racist, as a people ? No. Are some Turks racist ? Yes.

Many if not all of the problems of Cyprus are produced by racist or fascist politics, and I count nationalism amongst them. To resolve Cyprus' problems you don't make the racism and fascism deeper, you don't appeal to racist and fascist policies, and therefore you don't keep promoting nationalisms. You fight against racism and fascism. If that's what you also conclude I'm with you.

[Mapko]

GreekIslandGirl...Mπράβο!

[CopperLine]

CopperLine...[Yaaaaaawn] Have you finished your boring rhetoric?

It is not rhetoric it is text. For a boring text, though it wasn't a reply to you, you were interested enough to respond.

You spend too long jumping on the badwagon

Sic. "badwagon" How much is the right amount of time to jump on a bandwagon ?

and trying to find negatives

my god, that made me laugh, trying to "find negatives of Nazism" my, that's a tough job

(as shown in your anti-fascist magazine fo choice) instead of trying to find truths.

errr the clue is the title of the magazine Searchlight, trying to shine a light on fascism and racism and so exposing the truths which don't otherwise get shown, hence "Searchlight was founded in 1964 as an occasional publication and press agency, and became a monthly magazine in 1975. From the outset it has been uniquely successful in gathering and analysing intelligence on the far right. The results of this work are used far beyond the pages of the magazine and our other publications. Searchlight exposes the fascists and racists’ activities and alerts the antifascist community to our opponents’ intentions, plans and trends." Searchlight reports the thuggery and goonery of you knuckledraggers whose only way is violence.

You are one of the reasons that this world is in such a crappy state

Why thank you for attributing quite unlikely power to me. Other rational people have attributed the crapy state of the world to trade imbalances, banking crises, arms races, civil wars, climate change, currency fluctuations, any number of trivial things like that, but apparently the real reason is ... Copperline. You can see, can't you Mapko, why people would be forgiven for thinking that Nazis are stupid.

- you seem to hate your own kind (what that may be I'm not sure, but I could hazard a guess) and fall over yourself to be seen as a politically correct, soul brother who loves everyone and wants everyone to love him.

This did make me laugh. You attribute all sorts of motives and purposes to me with great certainty but then give the game away by "guessing". Logic is not your strong suit is it ?

In the event of any race war - which I can guarantee is coming (in my lifetime or not) - whether you show yourself to be anti-fascist or not, the people you choose to protect will come for you.

And then this is just the usual pop-millenialist wishful thinking which you'd only get from a conspiracy-ridden Nazi nut job.

You make a big deal out of the blood bank issue but, if I give blood, why shouldn't I choose who it goes to? It's my blood, mine to give and the health authority doesn't want me to choose, then they don't get the blood they are so desperate to get.

I won't get into the deeper reasons that you're so mistaken with this. Suffice to say that no national blood bank in the world works like this. If you don't want Jews, Gypsies, Brits, Italians or Cypriots getting your blood then don't give blood. It's a medical decision. Simple. But that you gave this response to the blood question just further confirms your Nazi racial 'blood purity' sympathies.

Χρυσή Αυγή are loking after their own - Greeks - which people seem to take as being racist.

Look dimwit. It is not that 'people seem to take [it] as being racist', it is that GD is racist. They say so themselves. They're not trying to hide it. THEY ARE RACIST.

That was the point I was making. So, for example, because they don't want to send billions of Euros to Africa so the money can be wasted, as it seems it has been for decades, and they want Greeks to be looked after, they are a racist organisation?

There's nothing self-evidently racist about not sending aid to Africa. If you said "I'm not buying a Renault because they don't make reliable cars" that doesn't make you anti-French. If you said, however, "I'm not buying a Renault because it's French" then your reasons for not buying are not about reliability but because of some anti-French prejudice. Similarly, if as a policy a government believed that providing development assistance to Ethiopia was ineffective, for what ever reason, then that is not anti-ethiopian or anti-African racism.

Hmm...if you and your family were starving and found some food, would you share that food with your neighbour and his family (who were also in the same predicament) or would you keep your family safe first?

The favourite refuge of the desperate is fantasy. My family are not starving and have enough food. No need for me to assist you in your tawdry speculations and fantasies.

Now, the same question but your neighbours are illegal immigrants sponging off the state and have never done a fair day's work or contributed anything to the economy. Would you still be so sharing?

At various points in my life I have had neighbours who have been immigrants and illegal immigrants, and I've had as much enjoyment and consideration by them as from my non-immigrant neighbours. I don't discriminate on the basis of where people are from, or what language they speak, or skin colour, or religion, or custom. If they were in need of help they asked, and vice versa. Mapko, try it some time. Get of your angry and bitter horse.

Illegal immigrants move for one reason and one reason only - their existence is so crap and they have no money and no education so they move to leech from another society.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about. How do you know why people migrate ? What makes you arrogantly say there's only "one reason" ? Let me give you ten reasons for starters : fear, persecution, unemployment, marriage, business, university/education, family, trafficked/enslaved, commerce, citizenship, ...... So not one reason, lots and lots. What proportion of immigrants are 'illegal' ? Well of course it depends on which country we're talking about and it depends on definitions of legality - but actually doing some serious hard investigative work to find those details is not something that Nazis do, so you won't actually know the truth here will you ?

If they had something to offer, they wouldn't be illegal.

Again logic is not your strong suit. This is a non sequitur

I've said this before, many times, and I'll say it again - no matter who you are or what your political/moral stances are, everyone and I do mean EVERYONE, is inherently racist.

Seems that you've not progressed developmentally to even the stage of separation and being able to identify others as different. Just because you hold certain views or have certain characteristics does not mean that everyone else has those views or characteristics. How do you know everyone is 'inherently racist', have you spoken to everyone ? Obviously not. Have you watched everyones' behaviour ? Obviously not. So you're just speculating. Badly.

Enough.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Here's a ready-made example of what I described earlier.

An example of the hypocrites who label as Nazis the small party of GD (who have never carried out Nazi-style exterminations, ethnic-cleansing or invasions of other people's countries) and yet they, these hypocrites, ignore governments in power/countries which HAVE carried out Nazi-style racist exterminations, ethnic cleansing, apartheid and invasions of other people's lands:

Yes Golden Dawn is a neo-Nazi party

- (Severe criticism indeed!)

Have Turkish governments been Nazi ? No.

- (Blindness?)