Cyprus-Forum.com

[bg_turk]

That is a very true statement NATO membership is strictly decided by the USG.

The other countries have no say? That doesn't seem like a fair alliance to me

Sotos,

Do you know any alliance that is fair and just and has USA in it?

Can you give an example of a fair alliance that doesn't have the USA in it?
why this antiamericanism, its seems to me that whatever problem the world has its always blamed on america.

[BirKibrisli]

That is a very true statement NATO membership is strictly decided by the USG.

The other countries have no say? That doesn't seem like a fair alliance to me

Sotos,

Do you know any alliance that is fair and just and has USA in it?

Can you give an example of a fair alliance that doesn't have the USA in it?
why this antiamericanism, its seems to me that whatever problem the world has its always blamed on america.

Bg_turk,

If you don't know why the world is antiAmerican,or can't figure it out for yourself,nobody can tell you otherwise.I personally am not anti American people.I am anti-American government policies,which since the WWII,has meddled in every other nations internal affairs,if not militarily via the World Bank,
CIA,Pentagon, or a similar organisation,for the sole benefit of her own narrow interests.You may well ask,why did other nations let the USA meddle in their affairs.I,ll let you figure that out for yourself.If you can't you might like to ask the Iraqi people,or the AFgans,or the Chileans,Niquaraguans,Colombians etc etc...

[bg_turk]

Bg_turk,

If you don't know why the world is antiAmerican,or can't figure it out for yourself,nobody can tell you otherwise.I personally am not anti American people.I am anti-American government policies,which since the WWII,has meddled in every other nations internal affairs,if not militarily via the World Bank,
CIA,Pentagon, or a similar organisation,for the sole benefit of her own narrow interests.You may well ask,why did other nations let the USA meddle in their affairs.I,ll let you figure that out for yourself.If you can't you might like to ask the Iraqi people,or the AFgans,or the Chileans,Niquaraguans,Colombians etc etc...

I believe the muslims in the Balkans have to be gratefull to the USA, because if it were not for the USA, there would be no muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo at the moment. Besides the USA rebuilt europe from the ruins in which it was during the first world war. Which other country would do that?
Of course like any other country the USA is following its own interests, who would expect it to do differently, but despite this in terms of its actions I think the USA has done remarkably well in protecting human rights and spreading democracy unlike many of the other totalitarian regimes.

[BirKibrisli]

Bg_turk,

If you don't know why the world is antiAmerican,or can't figure it out for yourself,nobody can tell you otherwise.I personally am not anti American people.I am anti-American government policies,which since the WWII,has meddled in every other nations internal affairs,if not militarily via the World Bank,
CIA,Pentagon, or a similar organisation,for the sole benefit of her own narrow interests.You may well ask,why did other nations let the USA meddle in their affairs.I,ll let you figure that out for yourself.If you can't you might like to ask the Iraqi people,or the AFgans,or the Chileans,Niquaraguans,Colombians etc etc...

I believe the muslims in the Balkans have to be gratefull to the USA, because if it were not for the USA, there would be no muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo at the moment. Besides the USA rebuilt europe from the ruins in which it was during the first world war. Which other country would do that?
Of course like any other country the USA is following its own interests, who would expect it to do differently, but despite this in terms of its actions I think the USA has done remarkably well in protecting human rights and spreading democracy unlike many of the other totalitarian regimes.

Bg_turk, I know where you are coming from,and I respect your right to feel that way about theUSA.The problem is (at least since the WWII) the USA has been very selective about where she protects human rights and where she spreads her version of democracy.Don't forget the same USA proped up the likes of the Shah of Iran,assorted kings and despots from assorted countries (especially those with crude oil ),supported countless Army coups against democratically elected governments (3 times in Turkey's case),and still does in many cases.It is one thing to protect your own interests,another thing to knowingly and willingly trample on other nations' interests.I personally have an intense dislike of bullies and those who throw there weight around without any consideration of other people's rights or feelings.I feel the same about countries.

[cypezokyli]

it is true that some countries did indeed benefit from the US foreign policy. a number of others also suffered. in any case the US even in the case of helping others i fail to see the altruistic motives.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

it is true that some countries did indeed benefit from the US foreign policy. a number of others also suffered. in any case the US even in the case of helping others i fail to see the altruistic motives.

Name one except South Korea and Turkey!

[JustAnAmerican]

Well, Mexico benefited from NAFTA, the free trade agreement. More US businesses went bankrupt or moved to Mexico, all in support of one of the poorest countries.

Chile is benefiting now from trade agreements with the US.

More and more dollars earned in the US, flow out of the US into the home countries of millions of foreign workers. Basically we set a work Visa permit limit for that nation and it becomes a source of foreign aid. Alliances with the USG are not evil.

What about the alliances right here?

The USG provides over 17 million in Educational grant to the RoC government, but I am sure the money is “provided” to the student by the RoC government.
We are currently giving 34 million to bi-communal projects, north and south of the green line. But I guess this a payment for the many military bases that we want??? Yeah Right!

We are closing bases in the US and Europe because we don’t need them.


Above are just the countries I have traveled to and witnessed the benefit of having the USG relationship. I am sure there are others that would be better examples and of course there are many that we screwed up.

Do you think the American people really care enough to send their hard earned dollars to a piss-ant country somewhere in the world? Let me help you out, Hell no!! But we did not pay any attention to what other countries were doing 70 years ago and one of them wound up trying to sink our entire Pacific navy and killing 2500 people.

[BirKibrisli]

JustAnAmerican,

Thanks for your considered response.I understand completely if you guys are feeling a bit under the seige at the moment.I hope you've noticed that we have made the distinction between the American people and their government.I think the world benefited greatly in the past from the American example.The Bill of Rights,abolishing of slavery,and your actions in the WWII,have certainly made the world a better place.But most that have happened since have not endeared USA to the rest of the world.The Vietnam war,American support for every tinpot dictator in the world who was willing to tow the American line,was nothing short of crime against humanity.The atrocity which was unleashed upon NY on September 11 did not come out of nowhere. While nothing can justify such a cowardly act on innocent people,something positive might come out of it if Americans start asking themselves why they are so hated in the world.Our poor country,Cyprus,certainly did not deserve to be a pawn in big boys' power game,which has left us bitter and divided after 45 years.I will never forgive America,Russia,Turkey,Greece and England for their part in our demise.And I won't forgive us Cypriots either for falling into your trap.In my book those who are big and powerful have a moral obligation to look after those who are not so fortunate.The USA has failed miserably in that respect,and I am afraid you innocent people of America are paying the price for it.

[cypezokyli]

cypezokyli wrote:
it is true that some countries did indeed benefit from the US foreign policy. a number of others also suffered. in any case the US even in the case of helping others i fail to see the altruistic motives.

Name one except South Korea and Turkey

!

dont u thing for a minute that i support the US foreign policy
i am just saying bc i have experienced this type of bush attitude you are either with us or againsts us many times up to now.

if i recall correctly "city" comes from east germany, but talking with west germans they consider in general the american intervention as positive. both for rebuilding, and for the unificattion. france was at the time against a united germany.
the muslim cossovars also feel the same way about america. it always depends on which side u stand i guess.

but as i have said..even if some countries benefited from the USA that doesnt mean that the exlicit purpose was to help them.

[Agios Amvrosios]

I think all Cypriots would benefit by Nato membership.

Nato membership would create stability.

Forget the commie left wing crap fed to our parents' generation. That is all over. Cyprus has to play the game to its advantage based on all the current circumstances.

Old commie fools thinking that when the say jump we are not already asking how high? two bags full sir?