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[tsukoui]

As someone who actually studied mathematics to PhD level before becoming schizophrenic, the point about the Pythagoreans is that they are the first recorded to actually logically prove the relationship... but who knows before the Greeks started opening schools all over the place, mathematics was only taught to initiates as secrets in the temples...

[GreekIslandGirl]

a lot has been attributed to Pythagorus but evidence of his authorship is often sketchy. His famous theorom about the square of the hypotenuse was for example apparently known to the Ancient Babylonians and Indians possibly some millenia before Pythagorus lived.

As to the verses they make a bit more sence if the line structure is removed
....

It was not his theorem which was known to the Babylonians (that would be absurd). Pythagoras proved the relationship of the sides ... and more.

Anyway, whose translation did you provide? The one by the Reverand is not a word-for-word translation but captures the poetry of the aphorisms. The youtube one is good as a literal translation.

[supporttheunderdog]

As someone who actually studied mathematics to PhD level before becoming schizophrenic, the point about the Pythagoreans is that they are the first recorded to actually logically prove the relationship... but who knows before the Greeks started opening schools all over the place, mathematics was only taught to initiates as secrets in the temples...

I think it fairer to say hey are the first whose writings are currently known. They may well have acquired the proof from the Middle east: so much Greek Philosophy can be traced back to the Babylonian civilisation - and so much of the original material was probably lost or destroyed.

The transaltion was quoted in Wikepedia -

[tsukoui]

As someone who actually studied mathematics to PhD level before becoming schizophrenic, the point about the Pythagoreans is that they are the first recorded to actually logically prove the relationship... but who knows before the Greeks started opening schools all over the place, mathematics was only taught to initiates as secrets in the temples...

I think it fairer to say hey are the first whose writings are currently known. They may well have acquired the proof from the Middle east: so much Greek Philosophy can be traced back to the Babylonian civilisation - and so much of the original material was probably lost or destroyed. .

Thank you... that is what I was trying to say... the legends speak of Pythagoras, and indeed many others of the era, as having studied in the temples in Egypt and Babylon, not to mention Persia... interestingly someone told me that Heraclitus thought Pythagoras was and idiot for trying to teach anyone at all...

[bill cobbett]

The Old Babylonians were also brilliant at recording the heavens over the centuries and they used a wicked base 60 number system which we still use every second of the day (as it were).

[tsukoui]

Here's one for all you mystical mathematicians out there... it is well known that random behaviour can be the best tactic in given circumstances... you can actually prove this... thus the use of oracles... of course the best oracles are biased towards something good... in China the famous Yi Jing has 64 combinations... the text provides a bias towards being one with the Tao supposedly... but there are many authors... anyway... in West Africa, and now places such as Brazil, the oracle traditionally had 256 combinations... it is known as th Obi... some have argued that this means that the Yi Jing is just a subset of the Obi... but truthfully the algebra is different, the Yi Jing being based on combination of three and the Obi on combinations of four... what is the relationship?... does it matter how many numbers you use?... it is just form after all... a scaffolding to hang the real ideas on... personally, in true unorthodox style, I have been wondering about working with three dice each of six sides to generate the combinations... but I'm not really good enough to provide the text... and that's where the real action is...

[bill cobbett]

err ... speaking of oracles, predictions and numbers like 64 and 256 and etc, it is mathematically possible to prove, in terms of probability, to prove that one in every approx 1,000 people can successfully call nine tosses of a coin in a row.

[Get Real!]

As someone who actually studied mathematics to PhD level before becoming schizophrenic, ...

Excellent! Now tell them all about the “smelly Arab” accomplishments in mathematics so they can have a fit while I sit back and have a good laugh!

[tsukoui]

As someone who actually studied mathematics to PhD level before becoming schizophrenic, ...

Excellent! Now tell them all about the “smelly Arab” accomplishments in mathematics so they can have a fit while I sit back and have a good laugh!

Well I could be boring and relate how the Arab world elucidated calculus before Newton but to stay on topic they were also interested in oracles... there is a long forgotten system of divination that they used similar to the Yi Jing in China and the Obi in West Africa... indeed in West Africa there was a time when the two systems sat side by side and they compared notes... it seems however that the Arab practitioners took a similar view to me, and correct me if I am wrong, that the number of combinations didn't matter, it was the bias in the interpretation that was important... the system was as widespread as Greece, I believe, and some of their machines for generating combinations are still in existence...

[tsukoui]

by the way, the true history of calculus is not actually boring, it's just that these "Whites" need something to wet their appetite...