Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

"The Federal government will be comprised according to the ratio of population of the two ethnic groups" eg 8GCs and 2TCs...

Not exactly! It will be 1,8 TCs and 8,2 other Cypriots.

So we will be ineffective and the GCs can do anything they wish???...

NO! The majority of ALL Cypriots will do anything they wish.

Thats what I said....[/quote]

Thats NOT what you said. You talk about GCs-TCs, I talk about ALL the Cypriots (Greks, Turks, Armenians, Maronites, Lastin) under a democratic/European constitutiona.

[Viewpoint]

"The Federal government will be comprised according to the ratio of population of the two ethnic groups" eg 8GCs and 2TCs...

Not exactly! It will be 1,8 TCs and 8,2 other Cypriots.

So we will be ineffective and the GCs can do anything they wish???...

NO! The majority of ALL Cypriots will do anything they wish.

Thats what I said....

Thats NOT what you said. You talk about GCs-TCs, I talk about ALL the Cypriots (Greks, Turks, Armenians, Maronites, Lastin) under a democratic/European constitutiona.[/quote]

You talk about giving the GCs the freedom to do as they wish and for me to submit to becoming a minority with absolutely no effective say...this is not acceptable we would rather stay as we are.

[Me Ed]

OK then VP,

specifically, what do you think the GCs will do to the TCs in a proportional federal government (wihout the usual coffee shop anecdotes please)?

I would envisage that, what ever the make up of a federal government, TCs and GCs would agree on 99.99% of decisions and during a split decision the TC contingent will hold the balance of power.

However it is important that the TC contingent cannot in anyway be manipulated by Turkey.

[Viewpoint]

OK then VP,

specifically, what do you think the GCs will do to the TCs in a proportional federal government (wihout the usual coffee shop anecdotes please)?

I would envisage that, what ever the make up of a federal government, TCs and GCs would agree on 99.99% of decisions and during a split decision the TC contingent will hold the balance of power.

However it is important that the TC contingent cannot in anyway be manipulated by Turkey.

Tell me how the voting would be weighted and how TCs would stop any decision that is felt was against its constituent state?

[Me Ed]

OK then VP,

specifically, what do you think the GCs will do to the TCs in a proportional federal government (wihout the usual coffee shop anecdotes please)?

I would envisage that, what ever the make up of a federal government, TCs and GCs would agree on 99.99% of decisions and during a split decision the TC contingent will hold the balance of power.

However it is important that the TC contingent cannot in anyway be manipulated by Turkey.

Tell me how the voting would be weighted and how TCs would stop any decision that is felt was against its constituent state?

That's very simple, because issues concerning the constituent state will be decided at the local level and the real checks and balances will sit with the EU.

I'll give you a real life example:

In the UK, they have devolution, which is one level below a federation.

In Scotland, there are no tuition fees for Scottish university students but students from England and Wales studying in Scotland have to pay the full fees.

Now because Scotland is a devolved state, it is not responsible for it's own tax collection, however if a TC or GC state wishes to implement such benefits within their constituent states, they will have to ensure that they can raise enough taxes to fund them.

Ultimately the checks and balances you seek will will sit in the EU, where the TCs can escalate any rare issues.

However, the challenge for the TCs may be at the federal level. For example, at a port in the TC state, TC immigration officers may have to refuse entry to Turkish citizens.

[Viewpoint]

Meed what you offer is that at every turn we have to go to the EU for resolution, are you fully aware of the procedural red tape and time spans of cases? people give up in the end of die...the EU is not what it is made out to be, they need 55 meetings 20 resolutions before they can even buy a pen, how do you expect them to deal with discrimination and persecution administered at federal level by the majority being the GCs?

[Me Ed]

VP, you seem give the impression that you think that the TCs and GCs will be some kind of opposition in a unified Cyprus. This is not the basis of a partnership.

On a governmental level under a federation this simply wont be the case.

In fact and by your own admission, the effect of being in the EU has already seen the TCs get services, specifically medical services where you have argued that the only reason the RoC provides these services is because they are in the EU.

So in effect you have answered your own argument when it comes to the checks and balances provided by the EU.

[Viewpoint]

VP, you seem give the impression that you think that the TCs and GCs will be some kind of opposition in a unified Cyprus. This is not the basis of a partnership.

On a governmental level under a federation this simply wont be the case.

In fact and by your own admission, the effect of being in the EU has already seen the TCs get services, specifically medical services where you have argued that the only reason the RoC provides these services is because they are in the EU.

So in effect you have answered your own argument when it comes to the checks and balances provided by the EU.

That is not exactly my claim, which is the GCs are forced to provide these facilities to the citizens it claims to represent as it would lose recognition/benefit rights and we would be recognized overnight meaning the advantages far out weight the disadvantages or knowing the GCs they would have done away with these facilities a very long time ago.

[Me Ed]

VP, you seem give the impression that you think that the TCs and GCs will be some kind of opposition in a unified Cyprus. This is not the basis of a partnership.

On a governmental level under a federation this simply wont be the case.

In fact and by your own admission, the effect of being in the EU has already seen the TCs get services, specifically medical services where you have argued that the only reason the RoC provides these services is because they are in the EU.

So in effect you have answered your own argument when it comes to the checks and balances provided by the EU.

That is not exactly my claim, which is the GCs are forced to provide these facilities to the citizens it claims to represent as it would lose recognition/benefit rights and we would be recognized overnight meaning the advantages far out weight the disadvantages or knowing the GCs they would have done away with these facilities a very long time ago.

Whilst we can debate the RoCs motives, that aside, surley you can now see that if you believe RoC is somehow forced to provide TCs these services or would have done away with them a long time ago, then the checks and balances you seek already exist as they are already inherent in it's membership within the EU - especially whilst part of its territory is currently occupied.

[Viewpoint]

VP, you seem give the impression that you think that the TCs and GCs will be some kind of opposition in a unified Cyprus. This is not the basis of a partnership.

On a governmental level under a federation this simply wont be the case.

In fact and by your own admission, the effect of being in the EU has already seen the TCs get services, specifically medical services where you have argued that the only reason the RoC provides these services is because they are in the EU.

So in effect you have answered your own argument when it comes to the checks and balances provided by the EU.

That is not exactly my claim, which is the GCs are forced to provide these facilities to the citizens it claims to represent as it would lose recognition/benefit rights and we would be recognized overnight meaning the advantages far out weight the disadvantages or knowing the GCs they would have done away with these facilities a very long time ago.

Whilst we can debate the RoCs motives, that aside, surley you can now see that if you believe RoC is somehow forced to provide TCs these services or would have done away with them a long time ago, then the checks and balances you seek already exist as they are already inherent in it's membership within the EU - especially whilst part of its territory is currently occupied.

This is where we see it differently the GC "RoC" only brings about it duties towards the TCs because it is forced to doso, the loss has to be far greater than any cost currently paid to provide a few facilities to the TCs. Your in effect saying that EU would also force them to do the right and that if you have any complaints about how the majority being the GCs are running the country and your lives go to the EU, I have explained before they are hardly geared to solving problems or forcing memeber states to treat people equally eg Muslims of Greece??? they are as effective as skin cream to a rotting corpse.