Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

You wish, its the GCs who have now understood that they cannot force the TCs to do anything against their will. Now what you GCs have to come to terms with is the fact that we are partners and that you have to incorporate our demands concerns and fears into any solution which is totally against your mindset and narrow vision thats why talks and debates on this forum have fizzled out.

Where does it say in the UN resolution that BBF will be based on "partnership"???

If you are referring to the 1959 Zurich agreements, Denktash and Makarios by agreeing to chance from Unitary state to a BBF, by default, they did away with that 1959 Zurich agreements. From here on, a new agreement needs to be made and I don't see any "partnership" being accepted by the GCs, but only equal citizenship for all Cypriots, based on EU Principles!

Your demands are to give Cyprus to Turkey as the case was with the Annan plan, therefore, your demands it will not be accepted, specially from someone who is a "I'm a partitionist at heart", since you cannot be trusted by anyone. As for your fears and concerns, it will be accommodated if you really want them, but they will be in the form of special "Minority Rights". Do you really want to have special "Minority Rights" because that would make you officially a MINORITY group or do you want to be just be like any other Cypriot enjoying everything equally, just like ALL the Swiss do in Switzerland without any special minority rights to anyone, because no Swiss wants to be seen as a minority in their own country, even the 1% Romansh, the 10% Italian and the 20 % French speaking Swiss against the 69% German speaking Swiss. Learn something from the Swiss!

Be careful what you ask for, because you may not like it once you get it!

Dont you think its more important as to what those rights exactly are and what they are good for, so that really blows your theory out of the water that becoming just some significant minority like the minorities in Switzerland is better than becoming a minority with special rights as this is what you propose for us not what we want, actually this is what we are 100% against and would rather unite with Turkey than accept what you and many other GCs have in mind for us, what we want is a BBF with political equality of the 2 states north and south as put forward and supported by the UN.

You are talking absolute gibberish and I have not understood a word you said.

BBF does not mean the north would belong to the TCs and the south would belong to the GCs, for you to treat all those who are GCs living in the north as foreigners in their own country with their Democratic and Human Rights violated. That's what the AP supported. The UN resolutions does not support such thing and neither does the EU. Even if the UN were to support such a thing in your wildest dreams, because the UN/EU did not support the AP but some morally corrupted individuals from the UN and the EU, and since 2004 when Cyprus became part of the EU, no such thing can be accepted, so forget what you want the BBF to be. The AP is Dead and Buried and unless the TCs start taking action to become part of the whole island under EU Principles, they too will become Dead and Buried under the weight of the settlers and Turkey!

Dont talk crap, please tell us all what the UN support? your interpretation anyway.

Just thought id add what humanist posted might help you understand what the UN and EU support;

Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Philip Gordon has expressed the need for a solution to the Cyprus problem as soon as possible.
Speaking during a press conference held here on Friday, Gordon said that “we are obviously very interested in seeing a solution to the Cyprus problem”, expressing at the same time regret that “there hasn’t been more progress over the past years”.
“We think that both sides would benefit from an agreement on bizonal, bicommunal, federation and we will continue to urge the parties to negotiate seriously”.

[Pyrpolizer]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

[Viewpoint]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

Did you ask them if they want to be a minority among GCs? Lets say for arguments sake you are right what will it chnage? will it make you happy? or will it unite us?

[B25]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

Yes, but we are constantly reminded that he represents the average TC. So someone is telling porkies.

[Viewpoint]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

Yes, but we are constantly reminded that he represents the average TC. So someone is telling porkies.

What difference does it make?

[B25]

It makes all the difference. You have no credibility.you claim to speak for he average TC, but are proven wrong by another member. So basically you are full of shit and not worth listening to. Don't you agree?

[Viewpoint]

It makes all the difference. You have no credibility.you claim to speak for he average TC, but are proven wrong by another member. So basically you are full of shit and not worth listening to. Don't you agree?

You are free to ignore my posts if you feel they are not worth replying to no one hs proven me wrong and believe it or not I am a very average TC.

[Pyrpolizer]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

Did you ask them if they want to be a minority among GCs? Lets say for arguments sake you are right what will it chnage? will it make you happy? or will it unite us?

The problem with you VP is that you are "a partitionist at heart". Kikapu said those are your own words...

You wish that someday you will have your own recognized state, that you will be equal to all other nations in the world, have ambassadors, join the UN, have a thriving economy etc etc just like the free areas of the RoC. And that you will get rid of Turkey messing in your affairs other than providing you a free of charge army and protection.
You forget of course that 90% of the land and properties in the north are stolen GC land and properties hence from this factor alone your dream could never come true. Let aside other factors like Turkey who controls everything in the occupied North, and considers the place as their loot of war, that will never donate to you to become an independent state. And who are you according to them? Some "british bastards" that’s what the Turks say for you….

Your starting point in what you REALLY WANT is very important in explaining your stance.
For you any other solution other than your dream of partition must be way too good to be accepted.Something like the Anan Plan… That’s why you always ask for a million guarantees and assurances every time a compromise proposal is on the air.

Now compare yourself with any other Cypriot whose starting point is unification or one Cyprus for all CYPRIOTS. Take a Kibrisli for this example. Does this guy expect to have a million guarantees and assurances for every aspect of a solution like you do? Does he expect the solution to be way too good for him (hence way too bad for the Kypreoi)? Does he expect his own numbers who are not even 10% of todays total, to dictate the remaining 90% of what to do or not do, hiding behind the term political equality, like you do? Does he expect to be an equal partner in an economy in which he will not even be contributing 5% and dictate terms and conditions to those who run 95% of the economy like you do?
Does he expect that with some magic formula the Kypreoi will be forced to give him their properties in the north for free or for some peanuts, or does he believe in lies that the Kibrisli land left in the free areas is enough to make an equal exchange like every partitionit thinks? Or does he KNOW that at best the Kibrisli will end up owning only about 1/3-1/2 of the land ownership in their administered area?
Does he expect that even with a BBF solution with political equality the Kibrisli Federal part will be in total control and practice discrimination vs the Kypreoi (like you and every other partitionist thinks), or does he deep inside know that this BBF thing is a starting point where the Kypreoi will sooner or later develop/create businesses and be in control of at least 50% of the economy there, because of their land and property ownership?

In summary those of you partitionists really misunderstood what you will ever get in a solution. And of course Eroglu is one of you and we ‘ve seen how far he managed to go.

[repulsewarrior]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

Did you ask them if they want to be a minority among GCs? Lets say for arguments sake you are right what will it chnage? will it make you happy? or will it unite us?

The problem with you VP is that you are "a partitionist at heart". Kikapu said those are your own words...

You wish that someday you will have your own recognized state, that you will be equal to all other nations in the world, have ambassadors, join the UN, have a thriving economy etc etc just like the free areas of the RoC. And that you will get rid of Turkey messing in your affairs other than providing you a free of charge army and protection.
You forget of course that 90% of the land and properties in the north are stolen GC land and properties hence from this factor alone your dream could never come true. Let aside other factors like Turkey who controls everything in the occupied North, and considers the place as their loot of war, that will never donate to you to become an independent state. And who are you according to them? Some "british bastards" that’s what the Turks say for you….

Your starting point in what you REALLY WANT is very important in explaining your stance.
For you any other solution other than your dream of partition must be way too good to be accepted.Something like the Anan Plan… That’s why you always ask for a million guarantees and assurances every time a compromise proposal is on the air.

Now compare yourself with any other Cypriot whose starting point is unification or one Cyprus for all CYPRIOTS. Take a Kibrisli for this example. Does this guy expect to have a million guarantees and assurances for every aspect of a solution like you do? Does he expect the solution to be way too good for him (hence way too bad for the Kypreoi)? Does he expect his own numbers who are not even 10% of todays total, to dictate the remaining 90% of what to do or not do, hiding behind the term political equality, like you do? Does he expect to be an equal partner in an economy in which he will not even be contributing 5% and dictate terms and conditions to those who run 95% of the economy like you do?
Does he expect that with some magic formula the Kypreoi will be forced to give him their properties in the north for free or for some peanuts, or does he believe in lies that the Kibrisli land left in the free areas is enough to make an equal exchange like every partitionit thinks? Or does he KNOW that at best the Kibrisli will end up owning only about 1/3-1/2 of the land ownership in their administered area?
Does he expect that even with a BBF solution with political equality the Kibrisli Federal part will be in total control and practice discrimination vs the Kypreoi (like you and every other partitionist thinks), or does he deep inside know that this BBF thing is a starting point where the Kypreoi will sooner or later develop/create businesses and be in control of at least 50% of the economy there, because of their land and property ownership?

In summary those of you partitionists really misunderstood what you will ever get in a solution. And of course Eroglu is one of you and we ‘ve seen how far he managed to go.

without prejudice, i'll stand in defence of vp on this point. if i understand him correctly, he believes in a Republic that is strictly non discriminatory, that gives no distiction to its Citizens except as Individuals (and his plaint is that the GC (so-called) will never let this happen). our confrere seeks to represent a Turkish constituency, i (too) ask where is a Greek, Maronite, Armenian, and Latin, equals as Cypriot Constituencies?

...Cyprus, is it a Greek State, and why not a Cypriot State; where is a Greek Constituency, speaking Bicommunally?

Kikapu, i am Greek, as a Person, but as a Cypriot i prefer to represent myself as a Human Being; is it the same for you?

...would you agree vp, you are Turkish, but as a Cypriot you would prefer to represent yourself as a Human Being?

[Viewpoint]

Every Kibrisli that I meet says he is CYPRIOT and feels contempt for those others who are TURKS.
And we have VP here trying to sell propaganda. I won't buy.

Did you ask them if they want to be a minority among GCs? Lets say for arguments sake you are right what will it chnage? will it make you happy? or will it unite us?

The problem with you VP is that you are "a partitionist at heart". Kikapu said those are your own words...

You wish that someday you will have your own recognized state, that you will be equal to all other nations in the world, have ambassadors, join the UN, have a thriving economy etc etc just like the free areas of the RoC. And that you will get rid of Turkey messing in your affairs other than providing you a free of charge army and protection.
You forget of course that 90% of the land and properties in the north are stolen GC land and properties hence from this factor alone your dream could never come true. Let aside other factors like Turkey who controls everything in the occupied North, and considers the place as their loot of war, that will never donate to you to become an independent state. And who are you according to them? Some "british bastards" that’s what the Turks say for you….

Your starting point in what you REALLY WANT is very important in explaining your stance.
For you any other solution other than your dream of partition must be way too good to be accepted.Something like the Anan Plan… That’s why you always ask for a million guarantees and assurances every time a compromise proposal is on the air.

Now compare yourself with any other Cypriot whose starting point is unification or one Cyprus for all CYPRIOTS. Take a Kibrisli for this example. Does this guy expect to have a million guarantees and assurances for every aspect of a solution like you do? Does he expect the solution to be way too good for him (hence way too bad for the Kypreoi)? Does he expect his own numbers who are not even 10% of todays total, to dictate the remaining 90% of what to do or not do, hiding behind the term political equality, like you do? Does he expect to be an equal partner in an economy in which he will not even be contributing 5% and dictate terms and conditions to those who run 95% of the economy like you do?
Does he expect that with some magic formula the Kypreoi will be forced to give him their properties in the north for free or for some peanuts, or does he believe in lies that the Kibrisli land left in the free areas is enough to make an equal exchange like every partitionit thinks? Or does he KNOW that at best the Kibrisli will end up owning only about 1/3-1/2 of the land ownership in their administered area?
Does he expect that even with a BBF solution with political equality the Kibrisli Federal part will be in total control and practice discrimination vs the Kypreoi (like you and every other partitionist thinks), or does he deep inside know that this BBF thing is a starting point where the Kypreoi will sooner or later develop/create businesses and be in control of at least 50% of the economy there, because of their land and property ownership?

In summary those of you partitionists really misunderstood what you will ever get in a solution. And of course Eroglu is one of you and we ‘ve seen how far he managed to go.

Pyro I am a partitionist at heart because the alternatives are not acceptable to either side, both side consider compromise is a gain for one side therefore must be a loss for the other. I know this may be difficult but you have to start by erasing all that has been etched into your brain and start acknowledging that we TCs have just as much right to the sovereignty/ownership of Cyprus as you do(we are not talking private land ownership thats another matter all together) only then will you understand that we have a right to live, work and prosper on this island. You want us to do this in a unitary state and I want to do it under a BBF with political equality of the 2 states, allowing everyone to move and settle where ever they wish choosing for themselves which administration they wish to reside under.

Your offer has failed in the past leaving a very bitter taste of total mistrust in every ones mouth, no one wants to go back to those days, what you offer forces me to live under majority rule which happens to be the GCs who can manipulate the situation to their own benefit leaving us out in the cold just like other minorities around the world persecuted discriminated against and always at a disadvantage but this would in our own country whereas other minority groups accept this status because they choose to move to another country other their own. WHY??? WHY???

Now my option of living side by side has proven beyond a doubt 38 years of peaceful existence where you have prospered and even joined the EU, I imho believe its clear which option is more suited to Cypriots on both sides of the divide....BBF with political equality of the 2 states as supported by the UN and EU.