Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Re : "The Turkish-speakers of Crete were not native to Crete"
With your logic GreekIslandGirl Britain should be given back to the Welsh and the Scottish, after all, the invading Saxons, Normans etc pushed the original Britons to these areas of Britain.

Re : "Turkish fantasy" and "would have... theories" relating to Nikos Sampson :
According to http://www.conservapedia.com/Henry_Kissinger Sampson, in 1974, told the Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia "Had Turkey not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus as well."

Re : "More than half the Cypriot population was driven into the graves" - Such figures are disputed elsewhere Piratis.

Re : "Well known acts of genocide" - yes well=known to you GreekislandGirl

Undoubtedly the Ottomans could have been better landlords here, as the British could have been in Ireland and elsewhere, but as I wrote earlier, the Ottomans didn't force the Greek-speaking Cypriots off the island. And hopefully this new fim in some small way will enable more people to realise the kindness of Turks and Turkish Cypriots. I should know - I married one

Not a fair comparison because the Ottoman Turks that invaded Crete were there for a very short period of time and have no comparison to the Welsh, Scots or Saxons. A typical Turkish manner for obfuscating facts.

- You forget how greedy the Ottomans were for Taxes from the slaves they subjugated in Cyprus ...

[crumpy]

Re : "Not a fair comparison because the Ottoman Turks that invaded Crete were there for a very short period of time"
They were there for over 200 years - that means about ten generations IslandGirl.

Re : "You forget how greedy the Ottomans were for Taxes from the slaves they subjugated in Cyprus"
Again harsh words. But to some extent you are correct - Unfortunately landlords often behave badly, but as I stated earlier they let the Greek-speaking Cypriots stay here.

Re : "A typical Turkish manner for obfuscating facts"
And I suppose Greek Cypriots don't
By the way, for the record I was born in Gloucestershire, as were both my parents.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Regardless, your aims are now clear. This thread should have been placed in Cyprus Problem (as was evidenced from your throwaway-line at the start).

The Ottomans made their wealth from taxing the people they subjugated.

If the taxes were not of primary importance, genocide was the name of their game.

[Piratis]

Re : "Turkish fantasy" and "would have... theories" relating to Nikos Sampson :
According to http://www.conservapedia.com/Henry_Kissinger Sampson, in 1974, told the Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia "Had Turkey not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus as well."

So, isn't this a "would have..." theory i.e. something that didn't actually happen? Samson said what he said after he was found guilty of treason and put to jail. He said that to harm those who put him in jail. He was nothing more than a puppet of the Athens Junta Generals and he had no power of his own. If the Junta wanted to "annihilate the Turks", then why didn't they do this with the Turks of western Thrace who have been living under their rule for years?

On the contrary the Turks have actually committed the genocides and ethnic cleansings. I hope you understand the vast difference between some empty words which didn't harm anybody when they were printed, and the actual genocides and ethnic cleansings committed by the Turks.

Re : "More than half the Cypriot population was driven into the graves" - Such figures are disputed elsewhere Piratis.

Those are the figures given by the Ottomans themselves.

"Well known acts of genocide" - yes well=known to you GreekislandGirl

Most of those genocides are well known to the whole world, and some of them are officially recognized as such by many countries. It is the Turks who keep denying every crime they committed and the crimes they continue to commit.

Undoubtedly the Ottomans could have been better landlords here, as the British could have been in Ireland and elsewhere, but as I wrote earlier, the Ottomans didn't force the Greek-speaking Cypriots off the island. And hopefully this new fim in some small way will enable more people to realise the kindness of Turks and Turkish Cypriots. I should know - I married one.

There is nothing "kind" about the Ottoman and Turkish ruling class or any other such Imperialists. We had several foreign rulers passing from Cyprus and the Turks are the ones who did the most damage with their practices of genocide, ethnic cleansing and transfer of populations. We have experienced (and still experiencing) their "kindness" for centuries.

If your wife is kind, that doesn't mean that the Ottomans were kind also.

[GreekIslandGirl]

How generous of people to decide, now that the Turks illegally hold nearly half of Cyprus, under illegal occupation, and are condemned by the EU and UN that they should now be deemed, by the one "husband" of some "Turkish wife", to be benevolent?

Is this film a comedy?

[Get Real!]

The Ottomans were responsible for many famines in the Ottoman empire, including Cyprus. The way they let a big portion of the Cypriot population starve to death would be called a genocide today.

If they did give some aid to others, there is no doubt that this aid didn't come from the work of the Ottoman rulers, but from the sweat and blood of the people that the Ottomans have been exploiting for centuries.

The Ottoman genocide of Cypriots which began in 1570 is evident by the minor population increase over 300 years of Ottoman rule…

Year: 1575 Population: 180,000 (About 60,000 slaughtered in 1570-1)

Year: 1881 Population: 186,200

An increase of just 6,200 in 306 years of Ottoman rule! It should be noted that the Ottomans themselves imported thousands of their own which are included in this figure!

More detail in my article here:

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle04.htm

[Get Real!]

I'm sure the Ottomans could have been better landlords, but they didn't drive the Greek-speaking Cypriots from the island,

That's pretty daft logic because the very essence of invasions and occupations is to preserve the labor force so that they pay taxes to the occupier! Slave labour was always the crux of Ottoman occupations.

[Get Real!]

"Had Turkey not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus as well."

What somebody SAID cannot be used in political debate. It’s only what people DID that matters.

[crumpy]

Let me reiterate, I am not condoning the actions of the Ottoman landlords, but they certainly behaved no worse than the British did in Ireland. And yes, unlike what happened to the Turkish-speaking minority on Crete, the Ottomans let the Greek-speaking Cypriots stay here.

Yes, I have lived in Turkey and now the TRNC for almost twenty years - the streets are safe, the people are honest and although you may hate them, this vehemence is not reciprocated on their side.

In any case, one gets the feeling that the international community tide of opinion is now slowly turning in the direct of fairer treatment for TCs - speeches made by MEPs, 5000 Austrian youngsters holidaying in Girne and now a film that may convince many in US that the Ottomans and their direct descendants are not the barbarians that you guys on this forum make them out to be.

[Get Real!]

Unfortunately landlords often behave badly, but as I stated earlier they let the Greek-speaking Cypriots stay here.

You should lookup the definition of the word "landlord" before posting stupidities because you'll find it involves OWNERSHIP.