Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

Viewpoint.

Very well said.

Leave them to argue just what nationality bastard they are !

If we are bastards, then you are janissary bastards. Because, as VP has confessed that he is a linopambakos, most of you are like him, i.e., Greek Cypriots (or Armenian Cypriots or Latin Cypriots) who turned Turkish cause you were gutless bastards. And if we are Arabs, as you call us, then you are Arab janissaries.

Now, If you are not Turkish Cypriots but Anatolian Turks, unless you are of Mongol origin, you are the definition of bastards, meaning that you could be anything like Greek, Armenian, Jsewish, Assyrian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Bosnian, Kurdish etc. You choose. So, cheers fellow bastards.

[supporttheunderdog]

My wife and I were at a Greek community dinner and dance a few years ago in central London and were introduced to a retired anthropologist (can't remember his name). We got talking and he asked if I wanted to know where my ancestors were from. We were a bit drunk and I joked around with him a bit, but he asked again so I agreed. I told him both my parents were born in Cyprus and he shook his head. His 'deduction' was that I was a mixture of French and Italian and that my ancestors 'settled' in Cyprus probably sometime between the 13th and 16th centuries. My wife was with us and she was also curious. His deduction on her was that she was 'Mesopotamian'.

My point is that there is no real way of knowing exactly what the 'ethnic' make-up of Cypriots is, so why bother? Even if we can trace some kind of blood lineage back to Greece, if we went back another 1000 years, we could end up being ancestral africans.

In my view, the ethnic element is not the focus, the focus should be which cultural group we belong to, i.e. what language we speak, our religion, customs, traditions etc. My cultural group is Greek and I see myself as a Greek. Who is anybody else to challenge that? Being Greek doesn't mean that I am a Greek citizen, it doesn't mean that my ethnicity is linked to the current geographical map of Greece. Being Greek is a cultural definition and statement. If 80% of Cypriots identify as Greek then they are Greek.

there will be better genetic similarities between Crete and Cyprus than say between Cyprus and Grece because more of the populations of both are descended from the peoples who established permamant occupation in the waves of westwards migration in about 5000BC or so. You would probabay have to go back more like 50000 years to find predominant African Ancestry,

[supporttheunderdog]

... and then there's the thorny issue of DNA, where GCs and TCs share more DNA with each other than Greece or Turkey.

It's only "thorny" because it isn't true. If it were true, we would be a different species.


Cyprus

Greek Cypriots

Greek Cypriots formed the island's largest ethnic community, nearly 80 percent of the island's population. They were the descendants of Achaean Greeks who settled on the island during the second half of the second millennium B.C. The island gradually became part of the Hellenic world as the settlers prospered over the next centuries (see Ancient Period , ch. 1). Alexander the Great freed the island from the Persians and annexed it to his own empire in 333 B.C.. Roman rule dating from 58 B.C. did not erase Greek ways and language, and after the division of the Roman Empire in A.D. 285 Cypriots enjoyed peace and national freedom for 300 years under the jurisdiction of the Eastern Empire of Byzantium (see Byzantine Rule , ch. 1). The most important event of the early Byzantine period was that the Greek Orthodox Church of Cyprus became independent no in 431. Beginning in the middle of the seventh century, Cyprus endured three centuries of Arab attacks and invasions. In A.D. 965, it became a province of Byzantium, and remained in that status for the next 200 years.

The Byzantine era profoundly molded Cypriot culture. The Greek Orthodox Christian legacy bestowed on Greek Cypriots in this period would live on during the succeeding centuries of oppressive foreign domination. English, Lusignan, and Venetian feudal lords ruled Cyprus with no lasting impact on its culture (see The Lusignan and Venetian Eras , ch. 1). Because Cyprus was never the final goal of any external ambition, but simply fell under the domination of whichever power was dominant in the eastern Mediterranean, destroying its civilization was never a military objective or necessity.

Nor did the long period of Ottoman rule (1570-1878) change Greek Cypriot culture (see Ottoman Rule , ch. 1). The Ottomans tended to administer their multicultural empire with the help of their subject millets, or religious communities. The tolerance of the millet system permitted the Greek Cypriot community to survive, administered for Constantinople by the Archbishop of the Church of Cyprus, who became the community's head, or ethnarch.

However tolerant Ottoman rule may have been with regard to religion, it was otherwise generally harsh and rapacious, tempered mainly by inefficiency. Turkish settlers suffered alongside their Greek Cypriot neighbors, and the two groups endured together centuries of oppressive governance from Constantinople.

In the light of intercommunal conflict since the mid-1950s, it is surprising that Cypriot Muslims and Christians generally lived harmoniously. Some Christian villages converted to Islam. In many places, Turks settled next to Greeks. The island evolved into a demographic mosaic of Greek and Turkish villages, as well as many mixed communities (see fig. 4). The extent of this symbiosis could be seen in the two groups' participation in commercial and religious fairs, pilgrimages to each other's shrines, and the occurrence, albeit rare, of intermarriage despite Islamic and Greek laws to the contrary. There was also the extreme case of the linobambakoi (linen-cottons), villagers who practiced the rites of both religions and had a Christian as well as a Muslim name. In the minds of some, such religious syncretism indicates that religion was not a source of conflict in traditional Cypriot society.

The rise of Greek nationalism in the 1820s and 1830s affected Greek Cypriots, but for the rest of the century these sentiments were limited to the educated. The concept of enosis--unification with the Greek motherland, by then an independent country after freeing itself from Ottoman rule--became important to literate Greek Cypriots. A movement for the realization of enosis gradually formed, in which the Church of Cyprus had a dominant role.

Extract Source: Library of Congress Country Studies.

I would not describe this a primary source material.

Here is a better academic take on the situationhttp://arts.monash.edu.au/publications/eras/edition-3/middleton.php

[kimon07]

I would not describe this a primary source material.

Here is a better academic take on the situationhttp://arts.monash.edu.au/publications/eras/edition-3/middleton.php

As I did some months ago under another thread, I am contradicting the "short paper" of your link with this:


G.R. Tsetskhladze (ed.), Greek Colonisation:

An Account of Greek Colonies and Other Settlements Overseas. Volume 1. Leiden: Brill, 2006. Pp. 564. ISBN 978-90-04-12204-8. €186.00.
________________________________________

Reviewed by Tamar Hodos, University of Bristol ([email protected])
Word count: 3921 words
[Authors and titles are listed at the end of the review.]
http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2007/2007-08-38.html

A comprehensive study of Greek colonisation has thus been overdue, but that a single individual could do so now is probably impossible. The upshot has been a two-volume collaborative effort initiated by Irad Malkin over ten years ago and brought to fruition by Gocha Tsetskhladze in the form of twenty-two chapters by seventeen scholars to produce the first English-language work that brings together the breadth of material now available for the study of Greek colonisation across its entire geographical ken. Together, the two volumes expand the scope of most other discussions of Greek colonisation, which are either regionally or temporally bounded. The volumes begin with an account of evidence for Mycenaean activity in the Mediterranean, and conclude with a discussion of Greek colonisation in the Classical period. They draw in literature and history, as well, by incorporating separate chapters on ancient terminology and interpretations of foundation myths. For sheer breadth and depth of coverage alone, the set will be invaluable to students and scholars of Greek colonisation (the second volume is not yet available). The present volume contains thirteen chapters that offer an introduction to the study of Greek colonisation from the Mycenaean period through the Archaic period, incorporating discussion of the Greeks and/or Greek material in Anatolia, Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, France, Spain, and the eastern Mediterranean, as well as a chapter on the Phoenicians' contemporary colonial activities, and a discussion about terminology.
………………………
Table of Contents
G. R. Tsetskhladze. Introduction: Revisiting Ancient Greek Colonisation
M. H. Hansen. Emporion. A Study of the Use and Meaning of the Term in the Archaic and Classical Periods
J. Vanschoonwinkel. Mycenaean Expansion
J. Vanschoonwinkel. Greek Migrations to Aegean Anatolia in the Early Dark Age
H. G. Niemeyer. The Phoenicians in the Mediterranean. Between Expansion and Colonisation: A Non-Greek Model of Overseas Settlement and Presence
E. Greco. Greek Colonisation in Southern Italy: A Methodological Essay
B. D'Agostino. The First Greeks in Italy
D. Ridgway. Early Greek Imports in Sardinia
A. J. Dominguez. Greeks in Sicily
J.-P. Morel. Phocaean Colonisation
A. J. Dominguez. Greeks in the Iberian Peninsula
J. Boardman. Greeks in the East Mediterranean (South Anatolia, Syria, Egypt)
H. Pamir. Al Mina and Sabuniye in the Orontes Delta: The Sites.

[Gianna]

Greetings, I'm Cypriot ... all my family is from Pafos. I really don't think that it matters if Cypriots have some Turkish blood in them or if they are related because of the history -it does make sense. But what I do see and have come to realize, is that the very way Cypriots present themselves, is very similar to the way Turkish people also present themselves. What I mean by this is that besides the physical attributes which are similar, the Cypriot men are very domineering and have not allowed women to progress. The same sexist attitude can be seen within the Turkish nation. And of course I know there are always exceptions, not all people have bad manners and demeaning outlooks towards women, however, the honest truth is that the majority of Cypriot men degrade the female body and hence women are therefore reduced merely to just sex-objects.

There is clearly no respect and no honor towards the opposite sex. This I have witnessed and have had the opportunity to interview women of varying ages, local as well as foreign. The Cypriot men and Turkish men have very barbaric and desperate ways of presenting themselves. Without being rude, I would like to express how deeply sad it makes me to think that so much evil has been done through the support Cypriot and Turkish men have given to the illegal sex-trade and have knowingly and without shame done unto women what they have experienced being done to them in a different yet similar sense, through war. Should war and the suffering there of not make a war ridden people have more respect for the weaker and more vulnerable ones? You would think so, however, the Cypriot people are a troubled nation, and the women themselves have expressions of hard-pressed lives riddled with pain and much suffering. However, the men have grown ever more aggressive and angrier, having no or little affection towards their own kind and ever more towards people of other nations. Greed has ripped their humanity from them, immorality runs deep and when confronted with their infidelity they show no sign of remorse ..in fact they become more brutal. This is unfortunate and as a Cypriot myself I am ashamed to say I know them, let alone to identify myself with them due to their lack of understanding and respect.

Another aspect which I would humbly like to touch on is the sad case of greed that runs deep in Cypriot blood. In my experience I have noted an outright demeanor of greed and corruption run deep in Cypriot communities. I also would like to make mention of the corrupt Police and political domains. Many poor people from poor countries have been taken advantage of by the greedy ways of the local Cypriots. The Cypriots show no remorse or shame, I have had the personal experience and have had the privilege of interviewing a number of victims of this saga I call "The Cypriot Debauchery" Poor people are humble and desperate for work, the Cypriots take advantage of this with every opportunity. This is a wide-scale phenomenon, a very tragic phenomenon that has taken the majority into it's grip. I am not impressed with the savage way the Cypriot people have expressed megalomaniac qualities through their sexism, racism and greed. This is unacceptable behavior, I am not proud of Cypriots, and they have only themselves and their stubborn selfish ways to blame. Time to look into the mirror of truth.

[Gianna]

Hi, me again, in the end it's not where we are from that counts, it's where we are going. So I hope Cypriot people will start to embrace being kinder to each other and respect each other and others. In the end, what we all have in common is our HUMANITY. Being humane is priceless.

[repulsewarrior]

Greetings Gianna,

welcome.

...such passion, and for Humanity, hope you stick around; cheers!

[yialousa1971]

And how exactly can "bastardization" be "Self inflicted"?

Piratis. The British colonial propaganda promoters, for reasons I can not explain, reemerged again all of a sudden from the underworld were they had been posting their crap for some months. They will start opening new topics one after the other all dealing with the same subject as the one of this thread. No need to keep their crap threads alive. Answer them not and the threads will die after 4-5 posts. I think we have interesting subjects related to the CYP and the regional developments to deal with.

Their other forum died.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Hi, me again, in the end it's not where we are from that counts, it's where we are going. So I hope Cypriot people will start to embrace being kinder to each other and respect each other and others. In the end, what we all have in common is our HUMANITY. Being humane is priceless.

Hello Gianna and welcome to the forum. I read with interest your opinions and observations about the state of Cypriot (recent) culture and have to admit it sounds pretty fair. You touched on the similarities with Turks and I do believe a lot of bad habits have rubbed off on the Greek Cypriots because of their close proximity and respect for the Turkish Cypriots. This proximity was developed over the last century by an enforced commonality of "Cypriotness" by the colonialist British and a few Greek-hating Cypriots (who are among the types to possess most of the characteristics you mention in your post on degradation of women, greed and exploitation of the less well off). Greek society has a matriarchal base and does not degrade women. For example, Turks sell their daughters for profit. The Greeks have usually given a dowry with their daughters so that families did not become breeding machines for daughters that could be sold off to harems for wealth. The need to primarily marry off girls, above the need to educate them, has consequently been given more necessity because of practices like those of the Turks influencing ours. There are many little habits like that introduced because of close, protracted living with Turkish cultures. It's mentioned by mainland Greeks and might contribute to some lack of respect for the more Turkified of Cypriots (those who deny Cyprus is Greek and have shunned Orthodoxy and use as many Turkish words in their speech as possible.) The Turks of Turkey in the great Greek cities like Constantinople have, perversely, adopted more Greekness.

It's high time we embraced our Greekness again, as have the more successful Western cultures, and make education a lifelong experience, for everyone.

[Lordo]

Is that the reason why your average greek girl likes a bit of turkish, they prefer the real thing.

I beg to differ regarding the mentality of an average turkish cypriot. they are way above any greek or greek cypriot. just the fact that they are not vonstrained by the backward priests/imams makes them 10 times the man.