Cyprus-Forum.com

[andytandreou]

were we rulers for 300 odd years?

What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that Turkey owns Cyprus still? You know what... I'm not even gonna try and argue this one but please tell me if you think that Cyprus belongs to Turkey. I can gladly tell you the story of a Turkish city which changed its name and added 4 towers around a beautiful church to mask its true identity.

did we jointly agree a special partnership in 1960?

The democratically elected leaders of what nations agreed the constitution? The Republic of Cyprus was formed AFTER the agreement so OBVIOUSLY it was forced on the people... And this was evident from the fact that 70% of the constitution refers to the establishment of the British bases.

do we now have 1/3 of the island?

No you don't! Simple as that. You can officially own something ONLY WHEN others agree that you are the owner. You can steal a car, but you don't own it unless you can get the Department of Transportation to change the ownership documents. You can steal a Picasso painting but you can't display it unless you where the rightful owner. You can move into an empty house, but if the owner comes back you better hope you have 30,000 soldiers at your disposal.
What you DO have is the entire island of Cyprus, which is your home, but your failure to see the bigger picture is your own loss.

do the blacks of America or the Indians of the UK have these elements in their history?? No they do not, that is why our situation is unique and why TCs feel they are just not any minority and will never accept your arguments to water down or brush aside what we are entitled to

In fact viewpoint you have so much less that the blacks of America or the Indians of the UK. The blacks have integrated into a society which has come to accept them, even if they appear different. They have integrated in business, in education and especially in entertainment and sports. A black man will beat you senseless if you say he's not an American, but A Turkish Cypriot doesn't even know what he is!! Turkish Cypriots live in an enclave distant from the rest of the world, while the Cypriots on the south enjoy a European lifestyle with high incomes and a great economy.


Being a minority is not on a black persons mind. They are American and American is how they behave. BEING A MINORITY IS AN IDEA IN YOUR HEAD VIEWPOINT, if nobody cares what ethnic background you are and can't tell by looking at your face then the problem is solved!

I do not resent or hate anyone, I do not trust GCs...and have no reason to do so, if that ever changes I will inform you.

Care to find the 10,000-15,000 Turkish Cypriots who work in the South and tell them that? Oh wait you better check if we killed them first because that's all we want to do right? You are such a bigot viewpoint... You don't even see that your economy grew 9% this year partly because so many T/Cypriots got jobs in the south and worked WITHOUT FEAR OF RACISM!

Look at the imbalance of the EU, Austria held the whole 24 other countries hostage until she got what she wanted, so its not always based on population and majority minority methodology.

What do you think the whole "Constitution for Europe" was all about? It introduced the majority-rules system for the first time and WOULD HAVE OBLITERATED THE VETO FOR GOOD!!! Very interesting that you would bring this up viewpoint... Even Europe admitted that after enlargement there would have been a dead-lock in the European project. This was confirmed with the Vetoing of the European budget a few weeks later, after the French and Dutch rejected the constitution.

Many people rushed to say that it might be the end of the EU as it would collapse under its own weight, with a VETO system designed for just a few nations. COMPLETE PROOF THAT THE VETO IS UNDEMOCRATIC AND MAY STILL HURT THE EUROPEAN IDEA!!! COMPLETE PROOF THAT ASKING FOR A VETO IS UNETHICAL AND UNFAIR.

Its a shame that Cypriots have opened their borders to all of Europe and now share their nation with hundreds of millions of people, yet Turkish Cypriots and Turkey are more interested in erecting new ones.

[Viewpoint]

andytandreou

What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that Turkey owns Cyprus still? You know what... I'm not even gonna try and argue this one but please tell me if you think that Cyprus belongs to Turkey. I can gladly tell you the story of a Turkish city which changed its name and added 4 towers around a beautiful church to mask its true identity.

Please read my previous post to Kifeas, will give you a better idea of what I was trying to get at.

The democratically elected leaders of what nations agreed the constitution? The Republic of Cyprus was formed AFTER the agreement so OBVIOUSLY it was forced on the people... And this was evident from the fact that 70% of the constitution refers to the establishment of the British bases

Im not asking if it was forced, I asking did we have the 1960 agreements which were in fact apertnership why is it so difficult to swallow, for gıds sake its your current constitution that you value so much, if it was forced on you why dont you dump for somehing better in a Federal BBF Cyprus?

No you don't! Simple as that. You can officially own something ONLY WHEN others agree that you are the owner. You can steal a car, but you don't own it unless you can get the Department of Transportation to change the ownership documents. You can steal a Picasso painting but you can't display it unless you where the rightful owner. You can move into an empty house, but if the owner comes back you better hope you have 30,000 soldiers at your disposal.
What you DO have is the entire island of Cyprus, which is your home, but your failure to see the bigger picture is your own loss.

You avoid answering the question, we have 1/3 of the island stolen or unrecognized those are different issues which can be argued, but the reality you cant swallow is that we live in the north and you guys live in the south. We have our own order and you have yours.

In fact viewpoint you have so much less that the blacks of America or the Indians of the UK. The blacks have integrated into a society which has come to accept them, even if they appear different. They have integrated in business, in education and especially in entertainment and sports. A black man will beat you senseless if you say he's not an American, but A Turkish Cypriot doesn't even know what he is!! Turkish Cypriots live in an enclave distant from the rest of the world, while the Cypriots on the south enjoy a European lifestyle with high incomes and a great economy.

Go ask the blacks of America what it like being a minority, those that still live in the Ghettos and are underpaid,and discriminated against...not a rosy as you paint it.

As for EU life style and wealth good luck to you all obviously your worked hard and earned it.
Our lifestyle, wealth and economy is our business, dont you think?

Care to find the 10,000-15,000 Turkish Cypriots who work in the South and tell them that? Oh wait you better check if we killed them first because that's all we want to do right? You are such a bigot viewpoint... You don't even see that your economy grew 9% this year partly because so many T/Cypriots got jobs in the south and worked WITHOUT FEAR OF RACISM

Cheap labour, have you spoken to any of them as to how they are treated and how their wages are in relation to GCs?

Being a minority is not on a black persons mind. They are American and American is how they behave. BEING A MINORITY IS AN IDEA IN YOUR HEAD VIEWPOINT, if nobody cares what ethnic background you are and can't tell by looking at your face then the problem is solved!

They had no choice we have...

Its a shame that Cypriots have opened their borders to all of Europe and now share their nation with hundreds of millions of people, yet Turkish Cypriots and Turkey are more interested in erecting new ones

Look Andy we all love Cyprus no question there, circumstances have brought us to where we are now, you must understand that the past has gone and we now have a new state of affairs, I personally am for a united Cyprus under a BBF system but our incompetence and lack of genuine desire, call it what you will for a solution will continue for many years to come, The only hope that we have is for everyone to get back to the table and negotiate in goodfaith taking into account each communites concerns.

[andytandreou]

ImIm not asking if it was forced, I asking did we have the 1960 agreements which were in facapertnershipapertnership why is it so difficult to sgıdsow, for gıdsou value so much, if it was forced on you why dont you dump for somehing betdontin a Federal Bsomehings?

Don't underestimate my intelligence! I won't let you throw me back and forth through you silly little arguments ok! IT WAS NOT A PARTNERSHIP. My relatives who lived during those times HAD NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE SO CALLED "agreements", no leader of the Cypriot people could have approved it. It was an entirely British matter and THATS WHY MOST OF IT REFERS TO THE BRITISH BASES! It was a wrong move to make at the time and was the main tool used to break our communities appart. The British created the agreements and established the RoC not the Cypriots.

You avoid answering the question, we have 1/3 of the island stolen or unrecognized those are different issues which can be argued, but the reality you cant swallow is that we live in the north and you guys live in the south. We have our own order and you have yours.

Just because you use phrases like "you can't swallow" or "you don't get it" doesn't mean your words have more credibility!!! I DO UNDERSTAND that Turkish Cypriots are in the North. I also understand that they live by their own rules and I also realise that half my county is under occupation by Turkey. If i didn't realise this what the hell would i be doing here talking to you? Enough with this sensless gibberish Viewpoint. Not only do you remind me of a situation which has kept my country back and generations of people in fear, but you also think I've somehow forgotten about it. I'm beginning to think that you would just type any random sequence of words as long as they contain the phrase "get it through you head"! What are we going to hear next from you?

Go ask the blacks of America what it like being a minority, those that still live in the Ghettos and are underpaid,and discriminated agunderpaid,and rosy as you paint it.

No comment on this one mate. Ever seen a trailer park filled with piss-poor white folks? Obviously not.

Cheap labour, have you spoken to any of them as to how they are treated and how their wages are in relation to GCs?

You speak with no proof, no experience and full of racism injected into your brain by a bitter, bitter parent or grandparent. CHEAP LABOUR!!! That concept only exists in third world countries. You obviously have never learned economics as you would know that there is no such thing as cheap labour in countries with minimum wages. Cheap labour in Cyprus can't be any cheaper than the minimum wage so stop trying to make out that Turkish Cypriots are being used as slaves. You would love to perpetuate that notion to people but i won't let you. The figures speak for themselves: 150Million Cyprus pounds paid to 15,000 Turkish Cypriots in just one year. That's £10,000 each per year... Some exploitation that is huh Einstein?

They had no choice but we have...

Again, you are just putting together a sequence of words just to trick your brain. Nobody else buys your anachronistic ideology.

Look Andy we all love Cyprus no question there, circumstances have brought us to where we are now, you must understand that the past has gone and we now have a new state of affairs, I personally am for a united Cyprus under a BBF system but our incompetence and lack of genuine desire, call it what you will for a solution will continue for many years to come, The only hope that we have is for everyone to get back to the table and negotiate in good faith taking into accountgood faitcommunitiess

I am fora temporary BBF structure only for a few years. I fully expect all refugees to be given their land back eventually and I look forward to living with Turkish Cypriots in a completely united Cyprus with no TRNC. DO NOT GET OFFENDED. I am simply stating that the BBF structure should be used as a way to slowly bring the two communities together again until they can live in peace together. I look forward to seeing Turkish Cypriots in daily life and T/Cypriot politicians in the Cyprus parliament, but i don't look forward to having two countries in one tiny island the size of London.

[Viewpoint]

andytandreou

Don't underestimate my intelligence! I won't let you throw me back and forth through you silly little arguments ok! IT WAS NOT A PARTNERSHIP. My relatives who lived during those times HAD NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE SO CALLED "agreements", no leader of the Cypriot people could have approved it. It was an entirely British matter and THATS WHY MOST OF IT REFERS TO THE BRITISH BASES! It was a wrong move to make at the time and was the main tool used to break our communities appart. The British created the agreements and established the RoC not the Cypriots.

Arent you contradicting yourself, now what was forced upon you and is created to break our communities apart is today so valuable that you want to force it on us?

Has the constitution changed?

Plus I never under estimated you intelligence not my style.. others may adopt this approach but me.

Just because you use phrases like "you can't swallow" or "you don't get it" doesn't mean your words have more credibility!!! I DO UNDERSTAND that Turkish Cypriots are in the North. I also understand that they live by their own rules and I also realise that half my county is under occupation by Turkey. If i didn't realise this what the hell would i be doing here talking to you? Enough with this sensless gibberish Viewpoint. Not only do you remind me of a situation which has kept my country back and generations of people in fear, but you also think I've somehow forgotten about it. I'm beginning to think that you would just type any random sequence of words as long as they contain the phrase "get it through you head"! What are we going to hear next from you?

Arent you doing what you just asked me not to do?? kindly refrain from trying to downgrade or belittle what I have to say its my opinion and seeing that this is a forum where we can discuss these issues then I to have the right to put forward my own ideas.

You speak with no proof, no experience and full of racism injected into your brain by a bitter, bitter parent or grandparent. CHEAP LABOUR!!! That concept only exists in third world countries. You obviously have never learned economics as you would know that there is no such thing as cheap labour in countries with minimum wages. Cheap labour in Cyprus can't be any cheaper than the minimum wage so stop trying to make out that Turkish Cypriots are being used as slaves. You would love to perpetuate that notion to people but i won't let you. The figures speak for themselves: 150Million Cyprus pounds paid to 15,000 Turkish Cypriots in just one year. That's £10,000 each per year... Some exploitation that is huh Einstein?

Go check your own official figures on how many TCs work in the south and how many have all their taxes and contributions paid. You are quoting unofficial figures which represent the majority of TCs workers in the south who work for much less than what the equivelent GC is getting. Your own newspapers reveal how you treat not just TCs but indians, Philipinos and other foreign workers in the south.
You only have to look at what jobs these people do to find out what their worth is, some are very well educated and could be employed in their relevent fields but of course this to must be the fault of the TCs.

I am fora temporary BBF structure only for a few years. I fully expect all refugees to be given their land back eventually and I look forward to living with Turkish Cypriots in a completely united Cyprus with no TRNC. DO NOT GET OFFENDED. I am simply stating that the BBF structure should be used as a way to slowly bring the two communities together again until they can live in peace together. I look forward to seeing Turkish Cypriots in daily life and T/Cypriot politicians in the Cyprus parliament, but i don't look forward to having two countries in one tiny island the size of London.

On the BBF issue we agree but not on the temporary basis. As for all refugees getting their land back?? I agree as many as physically possible should get their land back but how do you give land back when it has a 10 million pound hotel built on it? or a houses worth nore that the land?? these people should get hefty amounts of compensation imo.
I have no problems living with GCs under a BBF system but your ideal of a Cypriot nation/unitary state is not something that will happen in a few years as you seem to think. Lets not close the door completely but give both communites the oppoprtunity under a BBF to see and experience a united Cyprus if all goes well and we propsper without the problems of the past then we can decide on where we want to go.
Let me ask you a question, what will you do if GCs start to go back on agreements stating they are not inline with EU laws and threaten taking us to court etc etc??? to demolish the BBF structure and converting it into a GC run unitary state. Will you be as Cypriot as you are today and argue that we have an agreement with these people and what we GCs are doing is wrong? or will you just be one of the silent majority??

[sadik]

Care to find the 10,000-15,000 Turkish Cypriots who work in the South and tell them that? Oh wait you better check if we killed them first because that's all we want to do right? You are such a bigot viewpoint... You don't even see that your economy grew 9% this year partly because so many T/Cypriots got jobs in the south and worked WITHOUT FEAR OF RACISM!

Dear Andy, you do not see any racism around you does not mean that racism does not exists. You should get a car with a Turkish Cypriot licence plate, drive around in the south a little and see if there really is racism or not.

I know that most people are kind when they are interacting with TCs. I know only very few people are violent. I know that the current situation is inflating the problem. And I know that the society was deeply traumatized in 1974. But the fact of the matter is that racists and their racist rhetoric are tolerated in the GC society. They are not only tolerated but also encouraged by some political parties, military and the church.

Your society have created a ficticious line between the Turks and the Turkish Cypriots. Turks are all cruel, barbaric murderers and rapists, but Turkish Cypriots are like us, they are our compatriots. If this propoganda is to continue, it's for certain that the ficticious line between the evil Turks and compatriot Turkish Cyriots will not hold, and is not holding. This evil Turks rhetoric needs to stop, it's making TCs targets to fanatics because for them there is not difference between Turks and TCs.

[Main_Source]

But the fact of the matter is that racists and their racist rhetoric are tolerated in the GC society. They are not only tolerated but also encouraged by some political parties, military and the church.

Crap. If racism WAS tolerated, the GC in question who attacked a TC would not have been prosecuted on multiple charges. Also, I have never been to church and heard racism preached...only to stick up for our rights. This sounds like more fairy tale Turkish propagande that we hear over and over again.

Your society have created a ficticious line between the Turks and the Turkish Cypriots. Turks are all cruel, barbaric murderers and rapists, but Turkish Cypriots are like us, they are our compatriots. If this propoganda is to continue, it's for certain that the ficticious line between the evil Turks and compatriot Turkish Cyriots will not hold, and is not holding. This evil Turks rhetoric needs to stop, it's making TCs targets to fanatics because for them there is not difference between Turks and TCs.

LOL...Are you going to blame US for this as well. Listen, you want to speak to TC who separate themselves from Turks from Turkey first. I find it amazing how you can blame GC for this!!!! Maybe Turks should sit down and look at the real realtionship between themselves and TC before blaming GC for causing this. What a load of bollocks.

90% of Turkish Cypriots I have spoken to totally differenciate themselves from mainland Turks. Maybe its the Turkish fanatics that make TC want to separate themslves from Turks...how the f*ck can you blame GC for this. Isnt there some mainland Turk occupied villages in there north where TC are made to feel not welcome? Maybe you should get your media propaganda machine to examine this too,

[Bananiot]

Haven't had time to read eveything in this thread but one thing struck me:

CHEAP LABOUR!!! That concept only exists in third world countries. You obviously have never learned economics as you would know that there is no such thing as cheap labour in countries with minimum wages.

If this is what defines a third world country then we are a fourth world country! The Sri Lankan maids and other people from these countries work their guts out in Cyprus for about 150-200 pounds per month! The old ailing mother brings a Sri Lankan to Cyprus (a likely story) and her litter take advantage of her presence so that they kill two sparrows with one shot.

I wouldn't like to go onto such topics as sexual exploitation of these wretched people which of course happens on a much wider scale with fair skin east european women. You see, when it comes to sexual pleasure, we are choosy little bastards ...

Forgot the ampelopoulia! In modern european societies you just enzyoy their presence. In this plantation we enjoy them, on our plate!

Whos is third world? At least, many third world countries have pride in their misery as a pillar post that sees them through the hardships of everyday life. We can only boast of our corruption, but if I report Cyprus to the european courts, then the bash patriots will jump on my back.

[Piratis]

I didn't have the time to read everything either.

Exploitation of foreigners is really a very bad thing. However I wonder with whom Bananiot compares us. Maybe with his colonialist friends that for centuries they were oppressing and exploiting the whole world and that they continue to do so today using other means?

Forgot the ampelopoulia! In modern european societies you just enzyoy their presence. In this plantation we enjoy them, on our plate!

Personally I find this ridiculous. It is ok to kill some animals and some other animals is not OK? What about the English with their Foxes? What about the chickens we eat every day?

European does not mean ideal. Otherwise Europeans would be vegan, innocent creatures that never harmed other humans or animals. This is not the case.
Cypriots are not ideal, but they are definitely European and not 3rd world like Bananiot claims.

[andytandreou]

Bananiot is just a really upset environmentalist. As for shrilankan women you should consider that they get paid 200 pounds which is like 70 billion times more than the average wage in their own country and countries like ukrain and russia. ALSO where does he state that the £200 includes FREE accomodation, FREE food, FREE insurance and FREE medical care????

Bananiot i should warn you that i like to coverse with people that think outside the box, not people that own the box factory!!!

[bg_turk]

As for shrilankan women you should consider that they get paid 200 pounds which is like 70 billion times more than the average wage in their own country

Which is also "70 billion times" less than what the average GC gets. If some people get a lower pay than GCs, just because of their ethnicity despite having the same qualification, this is a very clear indication of xenophobia, racism and discrimination.