Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

I am sorry if some of my ideas and beliefs are upsetting you.

Your beliefs are of a man who lives thousands of miles away thus very utopian. Sorry to say this but you sound like you are living in cuckoo land,
try flying back down to earth and reality.

Yes,I do believe that given our shared experience of the past 55 years,the Rof C can work this time around

You do not just live there you are cuckoo, you are talking of 55 years bloody waters between our communites which ended up with the collapse of the 1960 constitution and 1974 and and you expect us to go backwards rather than forwards.
That period of our history is over we have a new state of afairs now and we are negotiating BBF not an old unitary state, which may I remind you yet again that GCs didnt not believe in or want when they signed it back in 1960 and which sudden now they believe is the best thing since sliced bread.

If the GCs agree to take us back they will know that for a lot of TCs this would be a major compromise from where we are todayWe would be giving up the possibility of having our own state one day,which was a cherished dream for a lot of TCs,I knowBut the other key to my thinking is that we cannot build a just and peaceful solution on GCs resentment and bitterness

No they would not they would say you had no rights anyway. The vengence and venom they harbour is evident from many of their posts eg Piratis, main-source and Kifeas, just read a few of the ir posts when under pressure their masks soon drop. Do you think this is a good basis for unfication?? The mindset has not changed one iota.

We were and we are a minority in Cyprus,so why should we expect to be treated any other way.What do we know about the status of the Maronites and Armenians?Aren't they living peacefully with their fellow Cypriots in the South?Are they oppressed or prosecuted by the majority?

We may be numerically a minority but no longer do we have accept being treated like one, if you have not noticed living zillions of miles away we have a divided island with 2 communites who have been negotiating for BBF of two component states under a federal umbrella, of course GCs will want us to go back to the 1960 agreements reducing us to a minority status. Ask an Armenian, Maronite or Philipino if they are oppressed or restricted by GCs im certain your would be very suprised at their response. All is not what it is made out to be...

Yes,I do believe we took the ball and ran to Mummy in 1963.We could have stayed and fight for our legitimate rights via the existing international laws and quarantees,couldn't we?But maybe that didn't suit us because what we really wanted was Partition.

I totally disagree we had not the man power or the arms to fight the numerically larger Greeks and GCs, should have said hold on dont shoot me Im just going to cliam my human rights and international laws. The worls saw what was happening its very well documneted what did they do a big Nothing, Turkey was the only country will balls to act on our behalf and come to our rescue say what you will you can never peruade me otherwise just as GCs argue that we brought it upon oursleves and that we wanted to live in squaller during the 50s and 60s...and theres was no persecution of TCs and everyhting was a bed of roses...

And do you really believe the GCs did not have the military might to wipe us from the face of the earth,if they wanted to between 1963 and 1974? And if they didn't doesn't that prove we could stand on our own two feet without raising the flag and running into Turkey's arms?

They were afraid of the outcome Turkish intervention, happened in 1963 when the Turkish jets flew over they backed down any military action.

You cannot be so wrong, have you ever lived in Cyprus??? obviously you do not know GC mentality well?

Are you happy and proud as a TC to admit that "we would have been fucked to put it mildly" without Mummy's help, that we are not capable of looking after ourselves?

So you suggest that in 1974 a 10 year old boy stand up to the punches of a 21 year old trained boxer? what chance do you think they boy would have? the esult is not worth thinking about, cant you comprehend this??

Believe me,Viewpoint,the front of my computer is not a very comfortable place.I love my country and I miss my country terribly. After racking my brain for years I came to the conclusions I came about Cyprus and the possible lasting solution.My experiences in the past 30 odd years in Australia were obviously decisive in shaping my opinions. I no longer need to hide behind my ethnic origins in seeking a solution

You really need to come and live here for a while to apprciate daily exposure to GCs and their leaders to realize certain short falls in the GC mindset which has not changed over the last 31 years. Then I will ask you whether you feel the same about you conclusions, Uzaktan davulun sesi iyi gelir = from a distance the sound of the drum sounds good...

I no longer believe that the majority of GCs are ready and waiting to drink my blood the moment Turkish Army leaves Cyprus.That is our fundamental difference,imo.[quote]

I do not trust GCs and have no reason to do so, I do not conceal this because everyone on this forum is aware of my views, so its not that they will drink our blood (im sure some do) but they do not have our best interests at heart and that they are not genuinely working for a solution. The Turkish army is a great deterrant against any madness from GCs and should only leave when a comprehensive solution is reached.

[Main_Source]

seems like you got a lot of time on your hands to write your propaganda crap.

[Piratis]

That's what I am saying. There should be some prerogatives, but whenever we ask for it, we are accused of being racist and seperatist.

No, I think you confused different things. Such kind of quotas exist in several countries. They are called "affirmative action" and in the case of Cyprus they can be long term.

It is not racist to have equal chances. All Cypriots should be equal with equal chances of employment regardless of their race, gender etc. Thats why if inequalities exist affirmative action and similar quotas can correct this inequality. (or prevent it, in the case of Cyprus)

This is exactly why if the TCs take 30% of governmental jobs, 50% of power etc is something racist. Because it gives more chances to people that belong to a certain group than people belonging to other groups.

Well the thing is how many of 18% will be able to vote and how many of them will be able to make it in the government.

What do you mean "how many of 18% will be able to vote"? All TCs over 18, why not?? Maybe in the beginning people will vote parties from their own communities. So you will have some GC parties which their total will be the 82% of parliament members and some TC parties that their total will be the 18% of the parliament members. Now if TCs decide to have one party of 18% or 3 parties of 6% etc it is totally up to them. The same goes for GCs.
The party of Papadopoulos got around 17% in last elections but Papadopoulos is the president and not Christophias (his party got 34%) or Anastasiadis (his party got 33%). The 18% of TCs is a very significant percentage that nobody can ignore.
Why do you think Anastasiades (DISI) whose right wing party is the one protecting the former EOKA-B members, is now so nice towards TCs? Because they know that AKEL has much better relationship with TCs and they know that in case of solution when that 18% of TCs is added to the voters it would be impossible for them to be in power again without the help of at least some of the TC parties.

[garbitsch]

Your last paragraph sounds fair Piratis.

[andytandreou]

Viewpoint, you are sadly mistaken my friend. You actually like resenting the Greek Cypriots. You are addicted to the hate and it's more than evident in your posts! What you said is a whole bunch of lies and propaganda which you've been fed! Take this for example:

We may be numerically a minority but no longer do we have accept being treated like one

What are you trying to say here viewpoint? That minorities should not be treated like minorities? We shouldn't call an apple, an apple? Pears are not pears? Should minorities in the UK, USA even Turkey suddenly rise up and claim more rights than should be afforded to them? I really don't understand this "twilight zone" mindset of yours. Since when did it become acceptable for ANY minority to become more privileged than a majority? If I apply your thinking to the USA I would suggest that African-Americans in the USA be allowed to have a black vice-president...always, veto rights in congress and be offered the Northern states to form their own nation, "The African American Republic of the Northern United States of America".. Catchy huh?. Would you find that acceptable though? Would you be able to hold down your laughter after hearing such ridiculous load of rubbish? It's not like you can't draw any similarities between the black people in the USA with T/Cypriots in Cyprus because you can! In fact the black people where HEAVILY oppressed by the whites and the KKK is still active in the USA. You see, the black people couldn't rely on Africa to come and rescue them, but they are still equal members in American society!!!

Turkey thinks it intervened in 1974 but, TIMES HAVE CHANGED... as they have in the USA and with the right tweaks and changes to our constitution and the right "affirmative action" we can AGAIN become a peaceful nation of Turkish and Greek fusion without excessive over-privileges to minorities that would tear us apart.

[Main_Source]

andy, have you been reading the Nation of Islam website...that's almost their exact ideology lol.

[Viewpoint]

andy are we just any minority?

were we rulers for 300 odd years?

did we jointly agree a special partnership in 1960?

do we now have 1/3 of the island?

do the blacks of america or the indians of the UK have these elements in their history?? No they do not, that is why our situation is unique and why TCs feel they are just not any minority and will never accept your arguements to water down or brush aside what we are entitled to, which is either the TRNC or a BBF as envisaged by the Annan plan.

I do not resent or hate anyone, I do not trust GCs...and have no reason to do so, if that ever changes I will inform you.

We can all label what we dont want to hear or face propaganda, it is the easy way out....

Look at the imbalance of the EU, Austria held the whole 24 other countries hostage until she got what she wanted, so its not always based on population and majority minority methodology. Why is it that 24X country population against Austria population didnt come out on top. Austrias 1 vote was worth 24, prime example of how minorities can influence and delay even stop the decisions of the majority.

We are now in 2005 living in 2 different areas, viewed as 2 equal negotiating partners, the sooner you come to terms with this the better it will be for all of us.

Your No against my Yes another example of 1 vs 1...2 equal partners, please try to comprehend where we are today not where we were in 1960.

[Kifeas]

andy are we just any minority?

were we rulers for 300 odd years?

Viewpoint!!!
I am very disappointed with you!
Didn't I tell you that the Ottoman Empire is over?
How many times I must remind this to you?
I said it to you maybe 100 times by now! Do you still believe that we are living in this time and era? Forget the Ottoman Empire viewpoint, it is over long time ago! Stop dreaming!

You said you were the rulers!
You were the illegal rulers of Cyprus!
Did we vote you to become our rulers? No!
Did we have a referendum in which we decided to appoint you as our rulers? No!
You made an illegal invasion, like the one you made in 1974, and you conquered Cyprus by force. Don't you know that this act on behalf of yours was immoral and unethical?
Therefore, stop bringing up arguments from the time of the Ottomans, in which you were the illegal rulers and we, your slaves, in order to justify and explain your excessive and unreasonable demands of nowadays! I know it is your dream to take us back to the Ottoman era, but sorry it will not happen! Now we are in the EU and the Ottoman era is over.

[Main_Source]

lol...so with VP's theory...

Any white person living in India should have special treatment.

Any white person living in Africa should have special treatment (South Africa ring a bell?)

Any Italian should have special treatment in any country outside of Italy but within Europe, North Africa and the middle east!

and VP, I dont know how extensive your knowledge on history past the Ottoman Empire is...but the Blacks in America are decendants of slaves...the Indians in the UK are decendants of opportunists who came to work here from British colonies in the 50's 60's 70's...much like the Cypriots.

[Viewpoint]

andy are we just any minority?

were we rulers for 300 odd years?

Viewpoint!!!
I am very disappointed with you!
Didn't I tell you that the Ottoman Empire is over?
How many times I must remind this to you?
I said it to you maybe 100 times by now! Do you still believe that we are living in this time and era? Forget the Ottoman Empire viewpoint, it is over long time ago! Stop dreaming!

You said you were the rulers!
You were the illegal rulers of Cyprus!
Did we vote you to become our rulers? No!
Did we have a referendum in which we decided to appoint you as our rulers? No!
You made an illegal invasion, like the one you made in 1974, and you conquered Cyprus by force. Don't you know that this act on behalf of yours was immoral and unethical?
Therefore, stop bringing up arguments from the time of the Ottomans, in which you were the illegal rulers and we, your slaves, in order to justify and explain your excessive and unreasonable demands of nowadays! I know it is your dream to take us back to the Ottoman era, but sorry it will not happen! Now we are in the EU and the Ottoman era is over.

Kifeas you know exactly what I mean you are just playing silly buggers on purpose.

The evolution of TCs on Cyprus came through these stages to a point when we agreed a partnership in 1960, am I also wrong on this point to? or didnt we agree the 1960 constitution???is it my imagination??
I am not advocating the return of the Ottoman Empire but it happened like it or not and that has contributed to us being in the position we are today. Your whole arguements are to debase and dillute any cliams we may have to being anymore than just a numerical minority. Do minorities in the UK have vetos rights for example?? obviously they were given to us for a reason and that was to protect our community from being dominated and manipulated by the numerically larger GC community.

As for the current situation we find ourselves in today this is a product perpetuated by both GCs and TCs. 1974 also happened like it or not, so if you are not happy with it then you should be trying harder to resolve it, obviously what your have been doing so far is clearly not enough to encourage and stimulate positivity from either TCs or Turkey..