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The Meaning of A Federal Solution

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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby Get Real! » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:58 pm

kimon07 wrote:So then. GR returns with a radical new idea which comes to:

1. Legitimization of the Turkish invasion and occupation by making Turkey the one and only discussion partner for the solution of the SB, instead of demanding that the international community forces Turkey to abide by the existing UN resolutions and get the hell out.

2. Acceptance of the Anatolian settlers as lawful inhabitants, as a legit community and as discussion partners.


:? The Greek austerity measures must’ve deprived your brain of any nutrients.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby Hermes » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:09 pm

bill cobbett wrote:
Yes, much of the misinformation comes from the wide meanings of definitions in language of this word "state".

A word that is often qualified for accuracy so we get such things as "nation-states".

In the hands of the apartheid partitionists, "state" is interpreted and promoted as meaning "country", so it is better to talk of "zones" where such manipulation of definitions is much more difficult.

In the EU context by the way and it is obviously a very important context... "autonomous regions"... (or shall we say "autonomous zones") as defined by discussions on the word "subsidiarity" is the way things are going. So although we often refer to the USA as an example of a federation made up of states, a better example for an EU member-state is Spain, where in recent years a good deal of power in local and zonal matters has gone down a level to the regions of Spain, places like Catalonia.


Good points, bill. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby Hermes » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:15 pm

Get Real! wrote:Furthermore…

Let us not forget that the occupied territory is currently inhabited by about 280,000 people of which only about 50,000 are “Turkish Cypriots” represented by the Turkish Cypriot Eroglu.

However the overwhelming majority of “TRNC” residents are NOT “Turkish Cypriots” and therefore cannot be legally represented by Eroglu!

The 230,000 odd settlers should elect and promote their own community representative and the government of the RoC should encourage their representation and open a communication channel with this community also.

Technically, Eroglu only represents 5% of the current population residing in Cyprus and this figure should no longer be ignored.


Just one thing, GR on this point. As I understand it, the majority of TCs (as opposed to settlers) voted fpr Talat in the last 'election'. Wheras Eroglu was primarily the chosen 'candidate' of the settlers. So in a sense, Eroglu is already the interlocutor of the settlers. The community in the north who are without any representation in the 'talks' are actually the few remaining TCs - such as those who protested last year against Turkish interference in the north's 'affairs' and who are represented sometimes by various trade unions.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:20 pm

...indeed bill, this is the next step, a devolution of the power (and the debt that goes with it); more efficient because it leaves electors closer to their taxdollars.

...at this stage in our negotiations as Cypriots, even if it has taken fifty years, there remains only the attempts at defining these words, Bicommunal, and now, Bizonal. my attempts at their definition, started in '74 reading the paper, spots on the map, with a proposal for repopulation, it was not until the advent of Forums like this one where by observation the rest was formed (and expressed) to suit not just "Greeks", and "Turks", but people who find their Happiness in expressing themselves as Citizens of the World, Individuals, as well as Persons.

...the Constitution (of the Republic of Cyprus) has within it a Communal Chamber, in my mind the crux of the Problem, ignored by Greeks it remained impotent. it is successfully ignored today as well because Greekness is so tightly bound around the Republic quite naturally i suppose, since they represent an overwhelming majority; and because it suits the Interlocutors to have framed the Problem "Greek"vs."Turk" with the Green Line now a military "border", (instead of Cyprus vs. the identity of Persons). Turkish Cypriots were and are an integral part of this island's identity, so too Maronites, etc., and as such, because Cyprus is an island, because its population at present is very small, because it once was the most socialised Country in the world, great changes in our thinking can successfully be demonstrated. Cypriots, toward Humanity, lead. but it requires a Greek Constituency, that is able to sustain itself independently as an equal to others along with the realisation that Sovereign we are as One People not Greek and Turk, where within there is not just Freedom, but Liberty with Cypriot Constituencies (at another level of government) as well.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:18 pm

Hermes wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:
Hermes, briefly my point is, why must there be only two 'zones'?


How many do you think is feasible on a small island, RW? The point is to bring back the occupied areas within the ROC so we call it a bi-zonal federation. It's really just a form of local government to keep the TCs happy (who think it's a 'state'). Eventually zones will be rendered meaningless under the EU where the drive will be towards more union and not increased division of the kind favoured by the racist TCs - whose time is coming to an end anyway.


...more than eight but less than forty i would guess, under at least five Constituencies, and i would not demean the power of democracy. at issue is our Rights to express ourselves. yes, there is a lot of confusion about our Freedom as Individuals, and our Liberty as Persons, in Cyprus it is high time that, born out of the Modern Age, we demonstrate our realisation that Nation and State have meanings more refined. the zones as you call them, made up of many components allows for diversity within a Constituency, beside the benfit to our Free Movement, in a manner where service is provided island-wide. (i leave it to the rest of the world to find some stupid word soft and cozy like a toilet paper brand) enclaves serve the purpose of ending the fait accompli, and it is Justice seen if this respect and recognition is offered to the displaced of '63 as well.

Hermes, it would be nice if Cyprus had a Unitary State, frankly it would be nice if Cyprus was no longer subject to the designs of powers seeking to possess it. Cyprus is an island never divided, and its population indisputably thrived for thousands of years by adapting, by their abilities to sustain themselves. we owe our responsibility to the rest of Mankind who gave us this Freedom to express this Will as a Sovereign People, our failure results in much harm toward Humanity, a victory for Ignorance if change we cannot embrace. you may be unaware that a greater threat than the environment exists toward Humanity, it is the dwindling extinction of our ethnospheres. making it easy means English, (not Greek), the more "union" you are anticipating; me too, but in my Cyprus we are able, as facilitators in many languages toward this social-exchange in a world where 90% of its population has a mother-tongue that is not this Lingua Franca, this is not easy but it prepares us for a world where in 80-200 years from now things will be completely different.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby wyoming cowboy » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:20 pm

Lordo wrote:
Hermes wrote:I post this for discussion. It's really for the benefit of Turkish Cypriots who don't seem to understand that a federal solution is not a two-state solution.

1.The bi-zonal aspect of a reunification plan does not mean a two-state confederation, but rather means reunifying the Turkish-Cypriots with the original and legitimate government of the island - the Republic of Cyprus - which would itself offer a fair and viable administration.

2. Whether you call it the RoC or the United Cyprus Federation doesn't really matter, what counts is fair representation for all communities that make up Cyprus' population.

3. UN resolutions talk about a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation based on political equality. Clinging to the idea of legalising the 'TRNC' - or two-states - is one of the reasons negotiations have been going nowhere. This has not happened for 37 years, there's no reason for it to happen anytime soon.


If only you understood 10% of what you pretend to understand, we would not be in this mess. It is easy to blame the Turkish Cypriots for failure.
And yet in 1973 peace plan was refused by Makrios because it precluded Enois and Taksim. Turkey and Dengtas agreed with it and so did Clerides and the Greek Government and the UN.

If you are to have a debate you must at least get the core facts right. Burring your head under the sand will get you nowhere.



You have no argument Lordo, (YFRED), where is the link to the agreement of 73, that you claim exists?
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby Hermes » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:50 pm

Lordo wrote:It is easy to blame the Turkish Cypriots for failure.


It is easy to blame the TCs for failure because it is true. The TC ‘leadership’ has deliberately followed a policy that has led the TCs into segregation, isolation and away from peace and co-existence. The TMT and TC leadership sacrificed their own community in pursuit of a separatist aim that was not in the TC’s interests but of their political masters in Ankara.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:03 pm

Hermes wrote:
Lordo wrote:It is easy to blame the Turkish Cypriots for failure.


It is easy to blame the TCs for failure because it is true. The TC ‘leadership’ has deliberately followed a policy that has led the TCs into segregation, isolation and away from peace and co-existence. The TMT and TC leadership sacrificed their own community in pursuit of a separatist aim that was not in the TC’s interests but of their political masters in Ankara.


What is it you actually want herpees? cause you seem to not understand the GCs contribution to the current situation...it is not just the TC fault a lot more of the blame is firmly on the shoulders of the GCs.
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:23 pm

Viewpoint wrote:What is it you actually want......? ...it is not just the TC fault a lot more of the blame is firmly on the shoulders of the GCs.


I would say all of the blame is on our shoulders because, like I said many times in the past:

1. We didn't shoot Denktash in the head when we had him.
2. We didn't take St Hilarion when we could.
3. We let the Junta withdraw the Greek Division in 1967.

But who cares any more VP? Thanks to Denktash, the sovereignty of the RoC was saved in 2002 (no to Annan Plan 2) and now thanks to Eroglu the talks are over. So, we are back to Zero thank God. We start from scratch. Nothing has been agreed, everything taken back.

New EU compatible constitution immediately. Full minority rights to the TCs. THAT IS ALL you should be getting. Don't feel stupid. Be grateful :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Meaning of A Federal Solution

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:28 pm

kimon07 wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:What is it you actually want......? ...it is not just the TC fault a lot more of the blame is firmly on the shoulders of the GCs.


I would say all of the blame is on our shoulders because, like I said many times in the past:

1. We didn't shoot Denktash in the head when we had him.
2. We didn't take St Hilarion when we could.
3. We let the Junta withdraw the Greek Division in 1967.

But who cares any more VP? Thanks to Denktash, the sovereignty of the RoC was saved in 2002 (no to Annan Plan 2) and now thanks to Eroglu the talks are over. So, we are back to Zero thank God. We start from scratch. Nothing has been agreed, everything taken back.

New EU compatible constitution immediately. Full minority rights to the TCs. THAT IS ALL you should be getting. Don't feel stupid. Be grateful :lol: :lol:


Its over...who said we are going to start form scratch? the north is just not interested.
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