Cyprus-Forum.com

[barouti]

You wood be experts are pathetic just watch how things unfold the truth will out in the end, all this speculation of things you know nothing about makes you sound like morons.

lol, you silly, silly indoctrinated girl. And you're an expert how exactly? Oh that's right, an expert at blowing things out of your behind. But isn't it the case for uber-nationalist Turks, Turkey is always in the right. Turkey never does any wrong. 1974 was about bringing peace. The occupation force is a "peace army". The Aegean has nothing to do with possible gas and oil or strategic reasons, according to you it's about stopping the imperalistic ambitions of zee evil Griks. Isaak deserved to die because they crossed the green line with the intention of committing genocide. Likewise with Solomou whose real intention was to strangle your puppies. And regarding this downed Turkish jet, which coincidently was a RF-4 (and spy plane btw dear) and flowing low to avoid radar, it was just on on a peace mission to spread turco-brotherely love acrosst the east Med. Oh no, Turkey is never in the wrong, its intentions are never militaristic or political. Your country is trying so hard to be the Switzerland of the Mid-East and because the world doesnt acknowledge this breaks your little achy heart so much you have to cry yourself to sleep every night.

[barouti]

Ha ha ha, the Americans have given the Brits permission to speak on the incident:

British foreign minister William Hague condemned Syria's shooting down of a Turkish jet as "outrageous" on Sunday and said Britain was ready to support robust action against Syria by the United Nations Security Council.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... 4120120624

Please note "Britain was ready to support robust action against Syria by the United Nations Security Council"

And we already know the Ruskies and Chinks have used their veto in the past and will continue to do so. But I like how the above is written in the past-tense eg "Britain was ready" as if realising in the same breathe this wasn't going to happen anyway. Am still laughing how the Brits used the hopleless UN security council rather than supporting Turkey's insistence that Nato's Article 5 should apply. Am sure the US ambassador to the UK checked the press release by the Foreign Office to make sure they won't going to say that before giving the green light.

[kurupetos]

We are closer than ever now. At least we don't have to worry about fruitless negotiations.

[Viewpoint]

You wood be experts are pathetic just watch how things unfold the truth will out in the end, all this speculation of things you know nothing about makes you sound like morons.

lol, you silly, silly indoctrinated girl. And you're an expert how exactly? Oh that's right, an expert at blowing things out of your behind. But isn't it the case for uber-nationalist Turks, Turkey is always in the right. Turkey never does any wrong. 1974 was about bringing peace. The occupation force is a "peace army". The Aegean has nothing to do with possible gas and oil or strategic reasons, according to you it's about stopping the imperalistic ambitions of zee evil Griks. Isaak deserved to die because they crossed the green line with the intention of committing genocide. Likewise with Solomou whose real intention was to strangle your puppies. And regarding this downed Turkish jet, which coincidently was a RF-4 (and spy plane btw dear) and flowing low to avoid radar, it was just on on a peace mission to spread turco-brotherely love acrosst the east Med. Oh no, Turkey is never in the wrong, its intentions are never militaristic or political. Your country is trying so hard to be the Switzerland of the Mid-East and because the world doesnt acknowledge this breaks your little achy heart so much you have to cry yourself to sleep every night.

[Viewpoint]

We are closer than ever now. At least we don't have to worry about fruitless negotiations.

Close to what exactly?

[barouti]

According to radar traces provided by the chief of General Staff, the Turkish F4 was downed 13 nautical miles off the Syrian coast in international waters but crashed in Syrian territorial waters. The graphics underline that the Turkish jet unintentionally violated Syrian airspace at 11.42 for five minutes, only 16 minutes before contact was lost with the jet. At 11.44 Turkish radars informed the jet that it entered into Syrian airspace and told it to leave as soon as possible.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ankara ... sCatID=338

Lets analyze the above statement.

The Turkish Jet was in the Syrian airspace for 5 minutes according to above statement, and lets give it a modest speed of 500 knots per hour, which for a high performance jet like the F-4, it would be like being in 1st gear for a car. Even at that modest speed, in 5 minutes, if my calculations are correct, the jet would have travelled 41 nautical miles inside Syrian airspace, so if the jet was shot in International airspace but fell into Syrian waters within the 13 miles from shore, that means that the jet was coming toward Syrian land, which means it would have reach land in about 1.5 minutes to cover the 13 miles where the International boundaries start. Which ever way you look at it, 5 minutes is a long time for a fighter jet to be wondering aimlessly in the Syrian airspace covering at least 41 nautical miles at the modest speed of 500 Nautical Miles. If the jet was told to leave the Syrian airspace ASAP by the Turks, even if the Jet was flying above the Syrian coast, it could have hightailed out of there with it's afterburners to vacate the Syrian airspace in less than 30seconds to cover the 13 miles to reach International airspace. I'm sure the Syrians would not have fired on a jet that was heading away from Syrian land and heading out to sea and if they did fire and hit the jet, then the jet would have fell into International waters, but it did not, because if fell into Syrian waters, which means that the jet was coming toward Syria.

Spot on. And it was definitely a spy plane hence why it was "unarmed". I was reading in another forum that it's primary task could have been to spy on the Demetra 2012 military exercises in Cyprus, and Syria was its secondary task. But either way the question beckons why did it enter Syrian airspace. Was it due to pilot error, probably not as Kikapu pointed above as it seems delibarate. Were the Turks told by the Americans to test Syria's air defences? It might be so, but let's not put it pass the Turks it was an act of bravado on their part since they do believe they're some kind of advanced military super power. Once more, pointing to the above analysis, the Turkish jet's warning systems would have lighted up once they detected a missile and they would have gotten the hell out of there with after burners or we would think. But it also makes me think about the the Russians who have very important naval bases at Latakia and Tartus. We all can agree that the Arabs are better at suicide bombings than conventional warfare, which would explain that maybe the SAM was operated by the Russians. There's so many questions about this but what we can be certain of is the barking by the Turks does confirm they got caught with their pants down in this incident. Best to bite the bullet and let this go instead of giving us an opportunity to laugh our asses off with their chest-beating.

What we should also look at is Turkey the paper tiger. All this hoo-hah in the press and the clueless on message boards all over the Net about Turkey being the Mid-East's super power ignores the obvious: Turkey isn't one! 200,000 Turkish troops can't even defeat 5,000 PKK fighters. We've seen in the last two years the PKK attacking isolated Turkish bases in the south-east and killing Turkish conscripts by the dozens. But moving away from COIN and to conventional warfare, it's best troops, tanks, artilery and combat aircraft are stationed in the Evros and Aegean against Greece and not where the action is ie against the Kurds and possibly Syria. Turkey simply does not have the military hardware to maintane two "strong and modern" armies in the west and east of their country. Their most advanced artillery, the Firtina, is stationed in Thrace and gathering dust rather than be redeplyed in the SE to give these isolated bases much needed fire support. It's the same with their tank force. They have their obsolete M-48s in Cyprus and M-60's in the south east but keep their more advanced Leos against Greece. If Turkey is serious about intervening militarily in Syria, you'd think they'll begin moving their more "elite" units away from the Aegean theatre and to the apparent "hot" border with Syria. Obviously they're not. Even their airforce, which they consider to be the terror of the sky in the east Med, it actually only numbers what is it 400 aircraft. Compare this to Greece's 300 and Israel's 500+. Point is, Turkey's armed forces simply aren't equipped to tip the balance of power in their favour in both the east and west of their country. Just like the Mavi Marmara incident and the latest one with this downed jet, all they can do is beat their chests like caveman, waiving their fists and barking at a safe distance, while their keyboard warriors (such as VP) type away on various message boards that Turkey is going to "retaliate" and don't "mess" with the Turks because they're such a "super power" and on and on they keep going.

[barouti]

You wood be experts are pathetic just watch how things unfold the truth will out in the end, all this speculation of things you know nothing about makes you sound like morons.

lol, you silly, silly indoctrinated girl. And you're an expert how exactly? Oh that's right, an expert at blowing things out of your behind. But isn't it the case for uber-nationalist Turks, Turkey is always in the right. Turkey never does any wrong. 1974 was about bringing peace. The occupation force is a "peace army". The Aegean has nothing to do with possible gas and oil or strategic reasons, according to you it's about stopping the imperalistic ambitions of zee evil Griks. Isaak deserved to die because they crossed the green line with the intention of committing genocide. Likewise with Solomou whose real intention was to strangle your puppies. And regarding this downed Turkish jet, which coincidently was a RF-4 (and spy plane btw dear) and flowing low to avoid radar, it was just on on a peace mission to spread turco-brotherely love acrosst the east Med. Oh no, Turkey is never in the wrong, its intentions are never militaristic or political. Your country is trying so hard to be the Switzerland of the Mid-East and because the world doesnt acknowledge this breaks your little achy heart so much you have to cry yourself to sleep every night.

lol, those the gods want to destroy will first make insane...

[barouti]

Just to add, Turkey is best explained by that leaked cable by Wikileaks: "Rolls Royce ambitions but Rover resources".

[Viewpoint]

Just to add, Turkey is best explained by that leaked cable by Wikileaks: "Rolls Royce ambitions but Rover resources".

Rover is a good make so no problem, what is it with this campaign against Turkey if she did wrong she will pay time will out everything you people over analyze everything.

[barouti]

Just to add, Turkey is best explained by that leaked cable by Wikileaks: "Rolls Royce ambitions but Rover resources".

Rover is a good make so no problem, what is it with this campaign against Turkey if she did wrong she will pay time will out everything you people over analyze everything.

In that lil' fortress of solitude you've built around you, you obviously dont see the obvious: TURKEY IS CONSIDERED A JOKE! Especially regarding considering itself a "regional power", which it is not. With the exception of Georgia (but hey, they really dont count especially after the bitch-slapping the Ruskies gave them four years ago) Turkey has problems with all it's neighbours, not only Greece and Cyprus but also Armenia, Iran, Iraq, Syria and even Bulgaria to an extent. Bugger the US and British media and its praise of Turkey being a model for the Arabs because they do not trust you or like you. Hence why they won't even consider recongnising your little illegal and artificial state or let you into the OIC despite Turkish lobbying. Why? Because Turkey has no real influence. My lord, the Arabs even laugh at you as being "European wannabes". When the Arabs find reasons to mock you, you should realise something is terribly wrong. But I will give you this, Turkey's position in the middle-east does give you an advantage, hence why Erdogan was quick to agree to the anti-missile shield virtually the next day after getting "tough" with Israel. But everything else with Turkey in the last ten years is being one ownage after the other. The Americans tied-up and hooded your commandoes in northern Iraq. What was the Turkish response? Allow the Americans to establish yet another base on your soil. Ok, you did make a movie, Valley of the Wolves-Iraq, to show them who's boss. The Israelis killed 9 of your citizens and your response? Make another Valley of the Wolves movie. Nobel announced they would be exploring the gasfields south of Cyprus and you threatened to send in your navy to stop it. What did you really do? Send in that caique whose engine broke down. Now with the incident with the down Turkish jet? Well, maybe another Valley of the Wolves film is being put together. There is nothing to over analyze only to mock.

And why do you care what anyone says about Turkey. Don't you consider yourself Cypriot? Why are you taking this so personal? Why do you feel the urge to defend Turkey's honor? Oh, that's right, because you a Turk first.