Cyprus-Forum.com

[wyoming cowboy]

You can not dictate or dominate you have to ask the opinion of the other side without being dismissive.

...dude, are you talking to me?

if we agree that the constituent states are equal, and that there exists the government of the Republic, Sovereignty no longer being an issue therefore, do you think the Greeks, and Turcophones could agree together about their Territorial Jurisdictions?

I do but the problem is the GCs they would never accept becoming a constituent state or sharing power at the federal level, go ahead try out your theory on this forum.

Vp, even with a billion and a half of checks and balances(that you keep harping about), with no will to make the solution work, it wont. A true Federal Democratic solution with a strong central government is the only chance of success....When you want undemocratic, apartheid balances,which take away from the rights of the majority Greek Cypriots, then its obvious you are not serious about any sort of solution.

wyoming, i believe vp has recognised the value of a Republic and the role it plays in defending our Freedom, however he asks for the Greek Constituency to recognise that the bias that this Federal Government suffers is that no Greek Constituency exists apart from it, from which they like Turks can express their views as Persons (and as equals), rather than as Individuals. wouldn't you agree that the Republic would be more credible as the represntative of all its Citizens, if there existed a Greek Constituency, along with a Turkish Constituency, and a Republic?

RW, if the Republic was Democratic in nature, then its natural that all its citizens TC or Gc , Maronite, Armenian Cypriots could all have an equal chance to express themselves in Congress or on the streets of Cyprus as they wish. One of the main problems with the Annan plan is that not all of the citizens of the imagined annan plan, Republic, could express themselves.
For instance, any law passed in the Tc constituent state, could not be appealed to any court higher then the Tc Supreme Court. In essence the Annan Plan legalized apartheid within the Tc state. It all boils down to the greater entity (Federal government, GC and Tc states), knowing the parameters of their rights and powers, The Fed, has certain parameters it cannot cross into, same goes with the individual states.

[repulsewarrior]

...even in the present Constitution of Cyprus, there is a Communal chamer, where they (the Communities) have the right to collect taxes, education, etc. within the context of one State, it seems we are in agreement that constituencies can provide for the needs that we sustain as distinct identities.

[wyoming cowboy]

...even in the present Constitution of Cyprus, there is a Communal chamer, where they (the Communities) have the right to collect taxes, education, etc. within the context of one State, it seems we are in agreement that constituencies can provide for the needs that we sustain as distinct identities.

Yeah i remember elders talking about having to go to a Turkish cypriot court..education, collection of state taxes is within the powers of the individual states, however an amount of tax from both states will have to go to the Fed, for interstate police forces, interstate highway development and upkeep etc...

My question to Vp would be, assuming he/she(i was under the impression Vp being a she), is living in the occupied areas today, How much does she/he think their life would change under a true democratic federal republic with two constituent states?

[repulsewarrior]

...i don't know what vp would say, and it is a good question, but i imagine little would change in peoples' daily lives for the most part. politically, they will become aware of their equality as Individuals, without discrimination or distinction, as Cypriots, electors of the Government which represents them as a State. and as electors of a National Assembly sustain in their daily lives an Identity as Persons, which they choose by residing within its Territorial Jurisdiction.

but, in my Cyprus there would exist enclaves to pocket the whole island, if the Green Line must stay. i believe it is important for Cypriots to recognise the harm (in '63 and '74) the displaced suffered, (along with the murdered and the missing), for some at least, there should be the right of return, as they left, as Communities. and i believe that if Cyprus is to be Bicommunal, Turkish and Greek should be spoken across the whole island. the osmosis that TPap talked about is the same as what he described as Cyprus as a young man, impossible to consider Cypriots as Greeks alone, like grains of sand across its map, Turkish Cypriots reside as well. National Assemblies would gain a vitality from the competing forces island-wide that seek its attention and resources. futuristically, there exists the possibility to accommodate other Constituencies, certainly the Maronites, Armenians, and Latins should be considered at the advent with the founding of Cypriot Constituencies, being Bicommunal, Sovereignty outside the mandate of these Territorial Jurisdictions.

[Viewpoint]

...even in the present Constitution of Cyprus, there is a Communal chamer, where they (the Communities) have the right to collect taxes, education, etc. within the context of one State, it seems we are in agreement that constituencies can provide for the needs that we sustain as distinct identities.

Yeah i remember elders talking about having to go to a Turkish cypriot court..education, collection of state taxes is within the powers of the individual states, however an amount of tax from both states will have to go to the Fed, for interstate police forces, interstate highway development and upkeep etc...

My question to Vp would be, assuming he/she(i was under the impression Vp being a she), is living in the occupied areas today, How much does she/he think their life would change under a true democratic federal republic with two constituent states?

Again to save you looking stupid I will tell you I am a he...what would change, I have asked this many times and no one has been bale to provide concrete answers.

[repulsewarrior]

...granted, no one has come up with concrete answers, will you at least hazard a guess?

[repulsewarrior]

...i don't know what vp would say, and it is a good question, but i imagine little would change in peoples' daily lives for the most part. politically, they will become aware of their equality as Individuals, (Freedom) without discrimination or distinction, as Cypriots, electors of the Government which represents them as a State. and as electors (Liberty) of a National Assembly sustain in their daily lives an Identity as Persons, which they choose by residing within its Territorial Jurisdiction (Bicommunal).

but, in my Cyprus there would exist enclaves to pocket the whole island, if the Green Line must stay. i believe it is important for Cypriots to recognise the harm (in '63 and '74) the displaced suffered, (along with the murdered and the missing), for some at least, there should be the right of return, as they left, as Communities. and i believe that if Cyprus is to be Bicommunal, Turkish and Greek should be spoken across the whole island. the osmosis that TPap talked about is the same as what he described as Cyprus as a young man, impossible to consider Cypriots as Greeks alone, like grains of sand across its map, Turkish Cypriots reside as well. National Assemblies would gain a vitality from the competing forces island-wide that seek its attention and resources. futuristically, there exists the possibility to accommodate other Constituencies, certainly the Maronites, Armenians, and Latins should be considered at the advent with the founding of Cypriot Constituencies, being Bicommunal, (Bizonal) Sovereignty outside the mandate of these Territorial Jurisdictions.

eh, vp.

never mind the enclaves for a second,

two questions:

1. do you agree with me that the displaced, whether from '63 or '74, deserve the respect and recognition, in some respect as Communities, not just as Individuals? (a simple yes or no will make me happy)

2. generally speaking, what i am suggesting above, toward ending the Cyprus Problem, does it represent the values you expect as a Human Being, as well as the political expression of Peoples represented as Persons? is it Bicommunal therefore, and clear, what is lacking is a Greek Constituency, and, regardless of whether you like enclaves or not Bizonal?

...i have added a few words in the quote above (in blood red), which may help to make it (what we are fighting for) even clearer; cheers!

@wyoming and (wth) anyone else; two questions, i'd enjoy your input too...

cheers.

[wyoming cowboy]

...even in the present Constitution of Cyprus, there is a Communal chamer, where they (the Communities) have the right to collect taxes, education, etc. within the context of one State, it seems we are in agreement that constituencies can provide for the needs that we sustain as distinct identities.

Yeah i remember elders talking about having to go to a Turkish cypriot court..education, collection of state taxes is within the powers of the individual states, however an amount of tax from both states will have to go to the Fed, for interstate police forces, interstate highway development and upkeep etc...

My question to Vp would be, assuming he/she(i was under the impression Vp being a she), is living in the occupied areas today, How much does she/he think their life would change under a true democratic federal republic with two constituent states?

Again to save you looking stupid I will tell you I am a he...what would change, I have asked this many times and no one has been bale to provide concrete answers.

Ok...you are a he, do you live in the occupied areas or do you live in elsewhere?

[wyoming cowboy]

...i don't know what vp would say, and it is a good question, but i imagine little would change in peoples' daily lives for the most part. politically, they will become aware of their equality as Individuals, without discrimination or distinction, as Cypriots, electors of the Government which represents them as a State. and as electors of a National Assembly sustain in their daily lives an Identity as Persons, which they choose by residing within its Territorial Jurisdiction.

but, in my Cyprus there would exist enclaves to pocket the whole island, if the Green Line must stay. i believe it is important for Cypriots to recognise the harm (in '63 and '74) the displaced suffered, (along with the murdered and the missing), for some at least, there should be the right of return, as they left, as Communities. and i believe that if Cyprus is to be Bicommunal, Turkish and Greek should be spoken across the whole island. the osmosis that TPap talked about is the same as what he described as Cyprus as a young man, impossible to consider Cypriots as Greeks alone, like grains of sand across its map, Turkish Cypriots reside as well. National Assemblies would gain a vitality from the competing forces island-wide that seek its attention and resources. futuristically, there exists the possibility to accommodate other Constituencies, certainly the Maronites, Armenians, and Latins should be considered at the advent with the founding of Cypriot Constituencies, being Bicommunal, Sovereignty outside the mandate of these Territorial Jurisdictions.

why cant Vp answer the question.....how does he think his life would change if the solution was a true Democratic Federal Republic? with two constituent states and a Democratic Federal government representing both the GC and Tc communities

[Viewpoint]

...i don't know what vp would say, and it is a good question, but i imagine little would change in peoples' daily lives for the most part. politically, they will become aware of their equality as Individuals, (Freedom) without discrimination or distinction, as Cypriots, electors of the Government which represents them as a State. and as electors (Liberty) of a National Assembly sustain in their daily lives an Identity as Persons, which they choose by residing within its Territorial Jurisdiction (Bicommunal).

but, in my Cyprus there would exist enclaves to pocket the whole island, if the Green Line must stay. i believe it is important for Cypriots to recognise the harm (in '63 and '74) the displaced suffered, (along with the murdered and the missing), for some at least, there should be the right of return, as they left, as Communities. and i believe that if Cyprus is to be Bicommunal, Turkish and Greek should be spoken across the whole island. the osmosis that TPap talked about is the same as what he described as Cyprus as a young man, impossible to consider Cypriots as Greeks alone, like grains of sand across its map, Turkish Cypriots reside as well. National Assemblies would gain a vitality from the competing forces island-wide that seek its attention and resources. futuristically, there exists the possibility to accommodate other Constituencies, certainly the Maronites, Armenians, and Latins should be considered at the advent with the founding of Cypriot Constituencies, being Bicommunal, (Bizonal) Sovereignty outside the mandate of these Territorial Jurisdictions.

eh, vp.

never mind the enclaves for a second,

two questions:

1. do you agree with me that the displaced, whether from '63 or '74, deserve the respect and recognition, in some respect as Communities, not just as Individuals? (a simple yes or no will make me happy)

YES

2. generally speaking, what i am suggesting above, toward ending the Cyprus Problem, does it represent the values you expect as a Human Being, as well as the political expression of Peoples represented as Persons? is it Bicommunal therefore, and clear, what is lacking is a Greek Constituency, and, regardless of whether you like enclaves or not Bizonal?

NO

...i have added a few words in the quote above (in blood red), which may help to make it (what we are fighting for) even clearer; cheers!

@wyoming and (wth) anyone else; two questions, i'd enjoy your input too...

cheers.