Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

we will continue to act and believe in the TRNC as a separate country.

So it is obviously not bound by any international treaties that were signed by the RoC.

I think it's time for VP to go back to her/his instructors for some lessons. she/he is totally confused lately and one post contradicts the other. Or is it a double/triple personality?

Just to save you typing he/she for your information I am male, kindly point out the contradictory statements.

[CBBB]

we will continue to act and believe in the TRNC as a separate country.

So it is obviously not bound by any international treaties that were signed by the RoC.

I think it's time for VP to go back to her/his instructors for some lessons. she/he is totally confused lately and one post contradicts the other. Or is it a double/triple personality?

Just to save you typing he/she for your information I am male, kindly point out the contradictory statements.

So your separate "state" doesn't recognise the RoC's membership of the EU, but you protest that you should be receiving the privileges of that membership. Doh!

[Kikapu]

Kikapu we have been debating for years now and nothing has changed Turkey has not evaporated as you predict and the TRNC has not lost one inch of land, we are further away from a solution than we have ever been and looks like we will both die you in a foreign land me in the TRNC and things will continue as today without change. Why on earth do you bother, why do you want to force the two sides to unite when you know full weill it will never work? Try and be honest and sincere and I will respond in kind.

I may well die in a foreign land. At least Switzerland is a recognised civilized Democratic country. You just live on a stolen land in a corrupted society that will never be recognised. Anyone who TODAY supports partitioning of their country just to help a foreign country become their masters does not deserve to call themselves Cypriots, and you is such a person. Cyprus as one country can work for all Cypriots, but it can ONLY happen under a True democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles. We already had your version for Cyprus with the 1959 Zurich agreements and it did not work and we almost had something even worse, the Annan plan in 2004. It's time to give Democracy a chance. What do you have to lose by trying Democratic Cyprus for a change under the EU umbrella?

Your psychological barriers are unbelievable, I would rather die in my own homeland than a foreign land among foreigners. This "stolen" land you refer to is in fact mine, I have not taken it from anyone and my family have owned it way way back, I have no problems living and enjoying it nor do I think like you my life here among my own people is far far better richer and fulfilling than yours will ever be among foreigners in their country.

That is rather rich coming from a foreigner like yourself calling the "trnc" your home when VP 2.0 version was born and raised in the UK for the first 30 years of her life and VP 3.0 version is a Turk from Turkey moved to the north in 1974, where as I, was born in Cyprus which is my birth place with the option to return and live in the RoC anytime I want as a Cypriot citizen. If you consider yourself a Cypriot (TC) VP 2.0 version, then you are not living with your own people since vast majority in the "trnc" are in fact Turks from Turkey. But as a VP 3.0 version, then you are correct, that you are living amongst your own people, your fellow Turkish settlers from Turkey living on stolen land, regardless which version VP you are, 2.0 or 3.0, both are living on stolen land that you will never be able to make it yours, since real owners hold the deeds on the stolen land you are living on!

[repulsewarrior]

vp, i don't know where you lived before the issues of '63 and '74, but if my village is an example of a "mixed" village, the residents have a relationship which was nurtured, far older than that. frankly i am grateful to live across from a Turkish Cypriot unscarred until the Turkish Army chose to make the land they occupy (and all its living creatures) subject to them. we remain an example of the community which was there before this "Turkification", my friends still respect hard work and have a loving nature, close to their land and this history; our history. now, after all these years, having met many Greeks from across the world, i feel a sorrow and a shame to meet a "Greek" who cannot understand that this is possible in Cyprus, i hope that i might convince you that as a Cypriot, you may consider that not all Turks are "Turks" . 350 years, wot? just a backwater, only surviving, ignored as a possession. it was the Modern Age, the British, and the Rule of Law, which gave impetus to Mankind's recognition of Cypriots as a People amongst a Family of Man. whether there is a majority of persons Greeks or not, the World defines us, as all Citizens, the stewards of this island so old (and so wealthy) as one, recognised, Sovereign and as Individuals, represented by a State governing in a manner where all electors are equal without distinction or discrimination.

Cypriots, their Leaders, chose to take the challenge of defining Bicommunal, and now Bizonal, for Humanity's greater good. you see two states. i tell you that you cannot dismiss the Federal Government as a body because you don't trust "Greeks", things cannot remain as they are today. to be equals as Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots (, as well as Maronites, etc.) there must exist a Greek Constituency (and other Cypriot Constituencies). if you want a Turkish Constituency demand this; liberate the Republic from its bonds to the "Greeks", and once again it will be the "minority" who values civil behaviour and Universal Principals, most.

...as such, read your Constitution, the Republic of Cyprus' i mean, and tell me, what is wrong with National Assemblies?

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu we have been debating for years now and nothing has changed Turkey has not evaporated as you predict and the TRNC has not lost one inch of land, we are further away from a solution than we have ever been and looks like we will both die you in a foreign land me in the TRNC and things will continue as today without change. Why on earth do you bother, why do you want to force the two sides to unite when you know full weill it will never work? Try and be honest and sincere and I will respond in kind.

I may well die in a foreign land. At least Switzerland is a recognised civilized Democratic country. You just live on a stolen land in a corrupted society that will never be recognised. Anyone who TODAY supports partitioning of their country just to help a foreign country become their masters does not deserve to call themselves Cypriots, and you is such a person. Cyprus as one country can work for all Cypriots, but it can ONLY happen under a True democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles. We already had your version for Cyprus with the 1959 Zurich agreements and it did not work and we almost had something even worse, the Annan plan in 2004. It's time to give Democracy a chance. What do you have to lose by trying Democratic Cyprus for a change under the EU umbrella?

Your psychological barriers are unbelievable, I would rather die in my own homeland than a foreign land among foreigners. This "stolen" land you refer to is in fact mine, I have not taken it from anyone and my family have owned it way way back, I have no problems living and enjoying it nor do I think like you my life here among my own people is far far better richer and fulfilling than yours will ever be among foreigners in their country.

That is rather rich coming from a foreigner like yourself calling the "trnc" your home when VP 2.0 version was born and raised in the UK for the first 30 years of her life and VP 3.0 version is a Turk from Turkey moved to the north in 1974, where as I, was born in Cyprus which is my birth place with the option to return and live in the RoC anytime I want as a Cypriot citizen. If you consider yourself a Cypriot (TC) VP 2.0 version, then you are not living with your own people since vast majority in the "trnc" are in fact Turks from Turkey. But as a VP 3.0 version, then you are correct, that you are living amongst your own people, your fellow Turkish settlers from Turkey living on stolen land, regardless which version VP you are, 2.0 or 3.0, both are living on stolen land that you will never be able to make it yours, since real owners hold the deeds on the stolen land you are living on!

you have now really lost the plot and are talking rubbish nothing new there. I am more Turkish Cypriot than you will ever be and do not discriminate against new and old generation Tcs they are all my people and the TRNC will around forever you will die knowing that you could not get rid of the TRNC.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu we have been debating for years now and nothing has changed Turkey has not evaporated as you predict and the TRNC has not lost one inch of land, we are further away from a solution than we have ever been and looks like we will both die you in a foreign land me in the TRNC and things will continue as today without change. Why on earth do you bother, why do you want to force the two sides to unite when you know full weill it will never work? Try and be honest and sincere and I will respond in kind.

I may well die in a foreign land. At least Switzerland is a recognised civilized Democratic country. You just live on a stolen land in a corrupted society that will never be recognised. Anyone who TODAY supports partitioning of their country just to help a foreign country become their masters does not deserve to call themselves Cypriots, and you is such a person. Cyprus as one country can work for all Cypriots, but it can ONLY happen under a True democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles. We already had your version for Cyprus with the 1959 Zurich agreements and it did not work and we almost had something even worse, the Annan plan in 2004. It's time to give Democracy a chance. What do you have to lose by trying Democratic Cyprus for a change under the EU umbrella?

Your psychological barriers are unbelievable, I would rather die in my own homeland than a foreign land among foreigners. This "stolen" land you refer to is in fact mine, I have not taken it from anyone and my family have owned it way way back, I have no problems living and enjoying it nor do I think like you my life here among my own people is far far better richer and fulfilling than yours will ever be among foreigners in their country.

That is rather rich coming from a foreigner like yourself calling the "trnc" your home when VP 2.0 version was born and raised in the UK for the first 30 years of her life and VP 3.0 version is a Turk from Turkey moved to the north in 1974, where as I, was born in Cyprus which is my birth place with the option to return and live in the RoC anytime I want as a Cypriot citizen. If you consider yourself a Cypriot (TC) VP 2.0 version, then you are not living with your own people since vast majority in the "trnc" are in fact Turks from Turkey. But as a VP 3.0 version, then you are correct, that you are living amongst your own people, your fellow Turkish settlers from Turkey living on stolen land, regardless which version VP you are, 2.0 or 3.0, both are living on stolen land that you will never be able to make it yours, since real owners hold the deeds on the stolen land you are living on!

you have now really lost the plot and are talking rubbish nothing new there. I am more Turkish Cypriot than you will ever be and do not discriminate against new and old generation Tcs they are all my people and the TRNC will around forever you will die knowing that you could not get rid of the TRNC.

Thank you for not denying that you are a foreigner born elsewhere, other than in Cyprus, whether UK or Turkey, it doesn't really matter. There is no such thing as "new TCs". There's hardly any old TCs left, let alone having new TCs. "trnc" cannot make anyone a TC, specially a foreigner like yourself. Anything the "trnc" gives you is a fake, just like itself, a fake illegal "state", which will not be recognised in your lifetime, or anyone else's for that matter, whether in the near future or in the distant future. I know, life's a bitch and then you die!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapoo whats important is how you feel and since moving to the TRNC I have never been happier whatever the ethnic origins of people around me whether they arrived 400 years ago or 30 it doesnt really matter. What matters is how we treat one another and ı have seen less racism here than in Europe people are to concerned with making a living to think about whether we will unite or not...no one except us die hards really care, the subject is very rarely raised in the coffee shops anymore and people are more interested in talking about football or the soaps. You may not be able to stomach it but the TRNC is here to stay, do you know why? you and I will guarantee it we will continue to agree on nothing and entrenched in our views...so I love the TRNC and know I will die here amonst people and a life style I love...you can do whatever you want in someone elses country at the end of the day it makes no difference to anyone here or the Cyprus issue in general.

[Kikapu]

Kikapoo whats important is how you feel and since moving to the TRNC I have never been happier whatever the ethnic origins of people around me whether they arrived 400 years ago or 30 it doesnt really matter. What matters is how we treat one another and ı have seen less racism here than in Europe people are to concerned with making a living to think about whether we will unite or not...no one except us die hards really care, the subject is very rarely raised in the coffee shops anymore and people are more interested in talking about football or the soaps. You may not be able to stomach it but the TRNC is here to stay, do you know why? you and I will guarantee it we will continue to agree on nothing and entrenched in our views...so I love the TRNC and know I will die here amonst people and a life style I love...you can do whatever you want in someone elses country at the end of the day it makes no difference to anyone here or the Cyprus issue in general.

So, not only you will end up dying in a foreign country as well (assuming I will also), but on an illegal and unrecognised under foreign occupation part of that foreign country, and you want to point fingers at me.!

Well, no one said you should not live the way you want to live, or die for that matter. My wish is for TCs to live as any other EU member state citizens with all their Democratic , Human Rights and International law protected and guaranteed, and to have 100% of Cyprus as their country. You on the other hand just want to hold onto stolen GC properties and not want all these protections for the TCs you say you care so much. For the TCs, friends like you, who needs enemies!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapoo whats important is how you feel and since moving to the TRNC I have never been happier whatever the ethnic origins of people around me whether they arrived 400 years ago or 30 it doesnt really matter. What matters is how we treat one another and ı have seen less racism here than in Europe people are to concerned with making a living to think about whether we will unite or not...no one except us die hards really care, the subject is very rarely raised in the coffee shops anymore and people are more interested in talking about football or the soaps. You may not be able to stomach it but the TRNC is here to stay, do you know why? you and I will guarantee it we will continue to agree on nothing and entrenched in our views...so I love the TRNC and know I will die here amonst people and a life style I love...you can do whatever you want in someone elses country at the end of the day it makes no difference to anyone here or the Cyprus issue in general.

So, not only you will end up dying in a foreign country as well (assuming I will also), but on an illegal and unrecognised under foreign occupation part of that foreign country, and you want to point fingers at me.!

Well, no one said you should not live the way you want to live, or die for that matter. My wish is for TCs to live as any other EU member state citizens with all their Democratic , Human Rights and International law protected and guaranteed, and to have 100% of Cyprus as their country. You on the other hand just want to hold onto stolen GC properties and not want all these protections for the TCs you say you care so much. For the TCs, friends like you, who needs enemies!

There you go again with your phscological barriers and hang ups about democracy et al, there are many countries that are in the EU and supposedily according to you the promised land yet they are shit not to name names Greece (sorry couldnt help myself) what you peddle and try to force down peoples throats is neither perfect nor is it sort of magic wand that will solve all our problems, well it wont because problems never end..Look what happened to the craddle of democracy (sorry should stop that but I cant help it).

I want to live in peace and tranquility not to be dominated or forced into minority status or feel like a foreigner in my own country (which I do not before you give us some wise crack) and thats what Im doing. As for this crap about stolen property I want restituion for those who have lost private property (GCs are able to apply to the IPC for this) on both sides of the divide but we TCs also have a very legitimate right to soverignty which is a totally different matter its about time people grasped this difference and understood that the TRNC was a direct result of the GCs dream for enosis and our fight for survivial.

Now as I have said before we, me and you are prime examples of why the TRNC will be around indefimately as neither side really want to compromise or unite, do you know why? because both sides are happy with the current status quo and do not want the phsycological or financial upheval of change or sharing, plus Cypriots do not have it in their genes with the conception of "giving in" or "conceeding to the other side" . Thats why in 10 years time we will still be debating the same crap without pudginf an inch.

As you are no doubt aware I am a partitionst at heart because I have no faith in the 2 sides wanting to live together but I am willing and would support a BBF with political equality of the 2 states but where we are unable to agree is that your version has to pitfalls and mines tries to guarantee those pitfalls are not allowed, thats why the chasm is just to wide to bridge and the Cyprus issue had gone off the radar and we are more consumed with other everyday matters.

[Hermes]

As you are no doubt aware I am a partitionst at heart because I have no faith in the 2 sides wanting to live together but I am willing and would support a BBF with political equality of the 2 states

Give it up, VP. Your silly games fool no-one and just waste everybody's time.

The United Nations resolutions clarify that by the term “political equality”, they do not mean equality of 'two states', nor numerical equality at all levels of power.

The UN stresses the element of effective participation in power sharing (in government institutions) and in decision-making. Further, the solution will involve the transformation of the Cyprus unitary state into a federal one - nothing about 'two politically equal states'.