Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

for certain, in or out of the eurozone, it's going to spell austerity...i do not think the greeks can get away from this...

the real question is in or our...

out means having to pay everything in cash, and if you owe money maybe not supplying...if anyone supplies it would be overpriced, good old no choice so put the boot in...greece can print money but there will come a time when toilet paper will be more expensive than the paper trying to pay for it...no industry, cost of living high meaning no foreign companies will be invsesting...unemployment stays high...cutting the lifestyle is not gonna happen...greece could try her hand in nationalization, but that would pretty seal her fate as no one will ever trust her as a country...

the obvious solution for me is to stay in the euro, negotiate a payback scheme with a fixed interest, frozen, where she starts paying back only when growth reaches 1%-2% ...so it's to the best interest of everyone for greecey to do well and help her get there quickly so they can get paid...as i said earlier austerities are gonna kick in, reigning in bloated government, pensions and tax evation...the challenge is getting the future and current unemployed employment with not so much of an industry...one way is to offer tax free company profits to foreign companies locked to about 20 years, along with land pacrcels for building factories...ok greece does not earn directly money from the foreign companies, but she will with all the services and all the taxes from the workers...this will actually benefit the eu, rather than eu countries chasing china or even turkey because of cheap labour they can start in greece, with real offsets, 20 year freehold lease factories and no company taxes, maybe max 5% over 20 years...she needs to counterbalance the high cost of living with something to attract foreign investement...

after 20 years chasing tax heavens, i come to the realisation world wide protectionism coming back in the near future...this will also help countries with unemployment and re-investing in there country...

end of the day greece needs a plan...too much time wasted in chasing her tail...she needs to demonstrate how she is going to go forward...regardless if she is in or out of the eurozone...

has greece announced any plans yet?...all i see is politicians playing the blame games...it's time greece started maturing...

[Sotos]

Some interesting videos:

[Kikapu]

Boomer, you make some good points.

Greece and the Greek people need to get down to basics and start rebuilding their economic system bottom up. That would mean for the Greeks working themselves in all kinds of jobs, even all the "undesirable jobs" held by the imported foreign workers. Greeks will need to roll up their sleeves and get to work, any and all kinds of work. Money made in Greece needs to stay in Greece, with as little imports as possible while making exports as much as possible on anything produced in Greece. They need to start their Oil & Gas drilling productions for a start, much like what the RoC is starting to do now, regardless of what Turkey says. Greece is now in a good position to tell the the EU, "unless you control Turkey politically and militarily so that we can make money from Oil & Gas to pay you back for all the loans you have given us, you can kiss your money goodbye". Greece also needs to be open for tourism 12 months of the year and not ONLY during "tourist season" as the case is now, with reduced prices by half of what people now pay to go to Turkey, Egypt, Canary Islands and so on. Greeks will not be making too much money, but they will start employment and rebuilding their economy slowly. It may take Greece 20 years of hardship and hard work to recover to the level where they were 2 years ago, but they really do not have any choice. They cannot maintain the living standards they have been use to of the past, because no one is going to lend them money to maintain that life style on borrowed money with no prospect of paying it back.

The Greeks will need to start making money the old fashion way, by earning it and not by borrowing it. In the meantime, Greece will need to rebuild their system where their banking, taxes and borrowings are transparent and that nations retirement and benefits are in-line with the countries ability to meet them in a realistic way and not in a wishful or in a deceitful ways. If the Greeks do not first help themselves by reducing their standards of living based on what they will earn, no one is going to help them maintain the standard of living they have become accustomed to. If Greece goes back to basics and start their economy on sound principles and build good foundations, with the prices they will be able to offer to tourist, they can become a major destination for tourist from all over the EU and the world. Turkey will lose 50% of their tourism industry to Greece in no time with more to follow in the future. Even Turks will want to go to Greece as a holiday destination if it becomes cheaper than Turkey. Turkey is no longer cheap as it use to be. They have no reason to be, since the Europeans do not have many options in the region. If Greece can become affordable tourist destination, for many Turks, it can be their first time going abroad. Turks can make large portion of the tourist coming to Greece, mostly by boats, which will be much cheaper for them than flying.

The above suggestions is a good place for the Greeks to start, no matter how hard it would be for them to swallow their pride. In order for them to have the lifestyle they have come to expect, they will need to go through the hard times as well. Personally, I think they will come out much stronger nation and more proud people in the end. I wish them luck, but no more free borrowed money!

[boomerang]

good videos sotos, it kind explains the problems faced in or out....i agree with both scenarios will be tough...but it falls short in what to do once a decision is made...euro or drachma...

the challenge all along is employment regardless if she in or out of the euro...greece needs to come up with a way in attracting foreign investments but has to give something back to counter high wages and high cost of living...it can be done...

thanks kiks...i am sure if greece mobilized in land/tax deals eu factories will be setting up shops...why not...end of the day it might prove cheaper, even with higher wages, than going for example to turkey with lower wages...added benefits law harmonization with in the eu...

[boomerang]

the reason turkey is attracting investment is purely cheap labour and the EU custom union...

what if greece could prove she is just as attractive to these corporations and they can have a made in the eu label vs made in turkey label instead...or china or korea labels...

wouldn't that be attractive let's say to huyndai?...

greece needs to set up a manufacturing base real quick...it's the only way out of this situation...they need to seriously discuss employment...

[kentish]

stop tax evasion for starters- greedy arseholes

[supporttheunderdog]

the reason turkey is attracting investment is purely cheap labour and the EU custom union...

what if greece could prove she is just as attractive to these corporations and they can have a made in the eu label vs made in turkey label instead...or china or korea labels...

wouldn't that be attractive let's say to huyndai?...

greece needs to set up a manufacturing base real quick...it's the only way out of this situation...they need to seriously discuss employment...

The increasing costs of sea transportation (caused mainly by rising fuel prices) are affecting the viability of shipping manufatured goods round the world- if Greece can reach the stage that the unit costs of goods in the shops it makes are less than those made elsewhere and which need transporting then yes, they can do it.

That means out-competing the Turks.



This has got however to include revision of employment terms: sma e for Cyprus. Once upon a time Cyprus was major source of supply for Shirts sold in the UK by EG M&S but the unions killed the goose by looking for big wage increases and/or opposing mesaure

[Viewpoint]

Boomer, you make some good points.

Greece and the Greek people need to get down to basics and start rebuilding their economic system bottom up. That would mean for the Greeks working themselves in all kinds of jobs, even all the "undesirable jobs" held by the imported foreign workers. Greeks will need to roll up their sleeves and get to work, any and all kinds of work. Money made in Greece needs to stay in Greece, with as little imports as possible while making exports as much as possible on anything produced in Greece. They need to start their Oil & Gas drilling productions for a start, much like what the RoC is starting to do now, regardless of what Turkey says. Greece is now in a good position to tell the the EU, "unless you control Turkey politically and militarily so that we can make money from Oil & Gas to pay you back for all the loans you have given us, you can kiss your money goodbye". Greece also needs to be open for tourism 12 months of the year and not ONLY during "tourist season" as the case is now, with reduced prices by half of what people now pay to go to Turkey, Egypt, Canary Islands and so on. Greeks will not be making too much money, but they will start employment and rebuilding their economy slowly. It may take Greece 20 years of hardship and hard work to recover to the level where they were 2 years ago, but they really do not have any choice. They cannot maintain the living standards they have been use to of the past, because no one is going to lend them money to maintain that life style on borrowed money with no prospect of paying it back.

The Greeks will need to start making money the old fashion way, by earning it and not by borrowing it. In the meantime, Greece will need to rebuild their system where their banking, taxes and borrowings are transparent and that nations retirement and benefits are in-line with the countries ability to meet them in a realistic way and not in a wishful or in a deceitful ways. If the Greeks do not first help themselves by reducing their standards of living based on what they will earn, no one is going to help them maintain the standard of living they have become accustomed to. If Greece goes back to basics and start their economy on sound principles and build good foundations, with the prices they will be able to offer to tourist, they can become a major destination for tourist from all over the EU and the world. Turkey will lose 50% of their tourism industry to Greece in no time with more to follow in the future. Even Turks will want to go to Greece as a holiday destination if it becomes cheaper than Turkey. Turkey is no longer cheap as it use to be. They have no reason to be, since the Europeans do not have many options in the region. If Greece can become affordable tourist destination, for many Turks, it can be their first time going abroad. Turks can make large portion of the tourist coming to Greece, mostly by boats, which will be much cheaper for them than flying.

The above suggestions is a good place for the Greeks to start, no matter how hard it would be for them to swallow their pride. In order for them to have the lifestyle they have come to expect, they will need to go through the hard times as well. Personally, I think they will come out much stronger nation and more proud people in the end. I wish them luck, but no more free borrowed money!

This from the man that argued that the Greek economy was far superior than that of the Turks....looks like you have shit all over your face.