Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cap]

' The Greeks will eat Greece, together with her debt.....'

Lets see if it aint so.

[wyoming cowboy]

you're too blinded with bitterness to actually see whats right under your nose.....

nothing huh?...just practising your new learnt word for the day huh?...

actually WC, why am I bitter?...care to share your "speculative" thoughts on this?...or were you just practising yesterday's learnt word?...

stating facts and the obvious does not make you a hater mr...i do not need to wish for anything mr, it's fast unravelling on its own for everyone to see...it is said fools and idiots aren't tune with reality, instead they turn into fish that hide their heads thinking, hooray no one can see me know...you greatly remind me of a pond fish WC...whilst colourful, next to useless...

..you're not stating facts you're restating what you have seen on CNN, or the BBC.which are not facts just a bleep on the today's radar screen...why has gold skyrocketed to close to 2000 us dollars, historically the us dollar should be falling through the floor, but its getting stronger and will continue to get stronger to the point that 1 us dollar will equal 1 euro.....

[boomerang]

even grivas the greek implant agreed...

are the greeks in cyprus happy their idol sold them out?...

"Greeks in Cyprus" ??? So you acknowledge there are Greeks in Cyprus!

Re what you posted, well, I was under the impression you were claiming that Greece had agreed to partition with the Turks. Well, if that is so you haven't provided any documentation proving it. Ok, you provided a link to a dead forum, macedoniaontheweb, and some other articles, but none which support your tin-foil hat theory of Greece agreeing to the partition of Cyprus.

Ok, let me put it this way, Boom Boom, your anti-Greek rantings (and that's what they are as you really havent put forth and articulate arguments or provided any reliable source or documentation) all they do is make the Turks glee and applaud you as they say to each other "we were right to invade". Because by demonizing Greece, actually blaming everything on Greece is really supporting Turkish propaganda. Hence, your posts do nothing for Cyprus or a just solution but instead support the Turkish occupation. That really doesn't make you much of a patriot, does it. It makes you an accomplice to the occupation, sorry to say. So keep blabbering away about zee evil Griks and paranoic conspiracy theories as much as you like, but the reality is the Turks and British (ie those who applaud your posts) support a permanent division ie TRNC...Greece does not.

oh barouti you skipped a post... ....you know the one about the pussy nation we call greece and the imia crisis...and from reliable news from athens with love...

oh you also missed the consent greece gave turkey in staying in cyprus till the cows come home...

and i asked you if this means anything to you and still no reply...pm me if you like...

"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder foams up about their waists. And all the whores and polititians will look up and shout "Save us" and I'll look down and whisper 'No'."

ok lets look up at your skirt....errr post then...

when you quote make sure you quote the whole post coz people might think you are taking the meaning out of context...i don't think like that but for the benefit of others i am re-posting it...also a good idea is to comment on the post first and not question the messenger about meaningless and moronic questions...especially when yout avatar is the greek flag...to everyone it would seemed you are dodging, another greek trademark, but i do not think like that and for the benefit of others i will repost the questions giving you a second change in coming clean...

Before we proceed any further, I consider it proper to give a short and clear picture of the role played by NATO and the Anglo-Americans in the developments of the Cyprus problem, thus adding vast dimensions to the problem and creating an intractable situation.

There is no doubt that for twenty years the Cyprus problem has been a nuisance for NATO, because it has led to the creation of a rather difficult situation between two of its members, Greece and Turkey. For this reason, NATO did not like the presence of an independent and non-aligned Cyprus State. The United States, too, did not like the presence of the Republic of Cyprus in the Middle East where she had other interests. The political and military influence of the Soviet Union in the Middle East, which was continuously increasing, and the crisis between Arabs and Israelis increased the strategic importance of Cyprus. If the interest of the United States in the Middle Eastern oil is added, Cyprus assumes further importance.

The bloody events of 21 December 1963, which were artificially created, were aimed at the dissolution of the Cyprus Republic and the realization of double Enosis. If all the developments following those events are carefully considered, one can easily reach the conclusion that basically that was the policy of the United States.

The Acheson Plan was the result of that policy. If it had been implemented, the Republic of Cyprus would have dissolved and double Enosis would have taken place, and the island would have been under the influence of NATO and the United States. For this reason, the attempt of the United States was to secure a solution of the Cyprus problem within NATO's framework. Because of this, many times disagreements were created between the United States and the United Nations. One of these disagreements was created over the report of Galo Plaza who had been appointed by the United Nations as a mediator for the Cyprus problem.

Galo Plaza, for quite some time, studied the conditions which prevailed in Cyprus and prepared a report which he submitted in March 1965. In that report, he recommended that the independence and integrity of the Cyprus Republic should be recognized, that Enosis and partition would be put aside and that every foreign intervention should stop. He did not agree to a federal system, which was the Turkish side's aim, because it would have not been, from the political, social and economic points of view, to the advantage of the people of Cyprus as a whole. He believed that such a system would have been impracticable. The report was rejected by Turkey; the United States supported this decision, and Galo Plaza submitted his resignation.

In December 1965, the United States voted against the United Nations' resolution which provided for the independence and integrity of the Cyprus Republic. By voting against, the United States came once more into disagreement with the United Nations. Thus, it was obvious that the United States had decided to carry out the Acheson plan. This plan was rejected by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, while Greece and Turkey had accepted it.

The United States was annoyed by Archbishop Makarios' stand and decided to get rid of him. George Ball's meeting with Grivas, who consented to the enforcement of Acheson's plan, also falls within this framework. When Grivas came to Cyprus in June 1964, sent by the Government of Greece, he was going to serve this aim. A significant role in Grivas' arrival in Cyprus was played by the then Minister of Interior and Defence, Georgadjis, who was a suspect organ of the Anglo-Americans, as has been mentioned elsewhere.

The decision taken during the Ball-Grivas secret meeting was the following: The Greek Government would have declared Enosis, and in return Turkey would have got a military base in Cyprus. Castellorizo would have also been given to Turkey. In Cyprus, a general disarmament would have taken place and the Turkish Cypriots would have had complete autonomy. Another decision taken during that meeting was to attack and dissolve AKEL. This reminds one of the Second World War when, under the pretext of countering communism, a civil war was created causing more suffering and destruction for the Greek nation than those caused by the war itself.

This was the «famous» Acheson plan. The aim of this plan was to create a chaotic situation in Cyprus, resulting in the dissolution of the State and the realization of double Enosis. Some accepted it and had the audacity to accuse the Archbishop of not accepting it. Naturally, these men are none other than those who destroyed this country and created the tragic situation of today for the people of Cyprus as a whole.

http://www.ihsanali.org/Default.aspx?_Page=377&_Control=CTL_Article_ArticleList&_Content=107

greece, turkey and well well grivas was happy with the acheson plan...how about you barouti?...how about th erest of the greek wannabies?...were you happy with the acheson plan?...was grivas right in wanting to give give half away and declare enosis?...

on the double enosis plan and '74, have you really asked your self what was in it for the greeks and us cypriots?...what was the gain?...when you look at it we had everything we ever wanted...
1...a whole country
2...no tc in government
3...virtual enosis
4...tcs near capitulation
5...running the coutry exclusively by us, no interference...no need for the 13 points...

so the question why the coup?...why demand enosis in 1974?...can you think of any reasons as to why when we had everything...why hasn't greece come clean to this very in her role in this sordid mess?...any ideas?...

and finally to your post...yes there are a few confused puppies, that drape themselves with another country's colours foolishly believing they are true patriots...go figure huh...i am represented by the flag of cyprus because i am a cypriot...and you?...

chronology to refresh ourselves...
1...greece along with turkey supported the acheson plan, along with grivas, carving cyprus, greek wannabies ecstatic...
2...greece starts the whole problem
3...greece runs away like the pussy that she is...we have seen this with imia and daily raping by TAF...but gets a pat on the back for being a goody goody, political talk for pussies...
4...greece signs away the turks with they can stay till a solution is be found...
5...greece shows no face during the recent gas drilling...pussied out again...
6...greece cannot declare 12 miles...pussy
7...greece cannot declare exclusive zone...pussy...
8...greece takes cyprus economy down the gurgler...c#$%s
and you think we should not talk about all these because the turks are gonna hear us...OR we are unpatriotic when we talk about it...OR lets all drape ourselves in the greek flag and everything will be ok...man whats your dealers number?...

so in short barouti, grivas, your hero, achieved his mission turks got nearly 40% and the rest we got...ok he didn't get his enosis but he got second best...

my question to you and to all greek wannabies is, if grivas is your hero, and pressumably you agree with his views, and his aim was dissolution of the ROC and supporting double enosis, why are you so bitter today's with the division...as far as i can see you got what you wanted all along...because prior to '74 we had the run of the whole country and again pressumambly you weren't happy, hence EOKA-B and the coup...

...if you didn't agree with grivas views that means he was not your hero and he should be condemned right here for endorsing the acheson plan...can't have both ways my little greek wannabies...


so what did greece exactly do to help cyprus in '74?...

[barouti]

oh barouti you skipped a post... ....you know the one about the pussy nation we call greece and the imia crisis...and from reliable news from athens with love...

Boom-Boom if I skipped a post it wasnt because I couldnt face the "truth" as per your interepration which can comes across to me like a bray of donkey especially when you end the sentence with a laughing emoticon. You seem to laugh at lot when posting. Boom-Boom are you smoking some good shit when you post. Rather, I am just trying to avoid getting caught up in circle-arguments. I provided an extract from Clinton's memiors that proves that the nation you consider so high and mighty, Turkey, blinked first. End of argument. I cant really respond to everything you post especially when its mainly blah-blah because I'll have to reply with yadidada. And with you posting blah blah and me replying with yadidada, well, we're not going to get anywhere. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Turkey blinked first. Period. But if you really believe that Imia was a Turkish victory and that Greece whimped out, you should put your money where your mouth is and post it in this forum:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/

So come on, Boom-Boom, the "truth" must be told and we evil Griks must be put in our places. Post what really happened in 1996 ie Greece whimped out, in Waff. Sure, the Turks would applaud you madly, but hey, you will also be putting us Kalamarides in our place...

Boom-Boom, you are going to do it. Because zee evil Griks in Waff under the delusion that Turkey blinked first. You can't let them get away with it. You need to do it. You need to let the Turks now they were the winners in 1996.

oh you also missed the consent greece gave turkey in staying in cyprus till the cows come home...

Well, it wasnt Greece, it was Karamanlis. He always did what the Americans told him to do. But this still doesn't prove your claim of "double enosi" ie Greece and Turkey secretly planned to divide Cyprus. You see what I mean by circle arguments. I ask for you to provide evidence of a Greece conspiracy to divide Cyprus but you fail to deliver and instead throw the same things over and over again insisting this is proof when in fact it isn't. Now, Boom-Boom, one more time: please provide evidence that Greece, ie official Greek, US, Nato documents that support your claim that Greece had agreed with Turkey, that nation you consider mighty, to divide Cyprus.

As a sidenote, I wouldnt put it pass Karamanlis that he would have agreed to divide Cyprus if it meant pleasing the Americans, but the mainland Greeks would have strung him by the balls if he did. Maybe you should think about this.

Anyway, so let me know when you posted "what really happened with Imia" in Waff so I can take a look and see if you do have hairs on your balls after all and believe in what you post.

[supporttheunderdog]

Double Enosis was definitely a US aim since 1964 but the problem was selling the deal to Greece.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_0000273005/DOC_0000273005.pdf

whether the Greek position changed over double Enosis in the following 10 years is a moot point. Sufficed to say as the US knew, any attempt at Enosis was going to lead to Turkish miltary intervention. It would not however surprise me if the USA was not behind both the Coup and the Invasion (possibly without informing the Junta of what they planned with Turkey . For their part I think the US hoped to get a Cprus base out of the deal, once the entire island was under the control of two nATO nations, Greece and Turkey.

What may have thhrown their plans out was that Big mak survived, as Cyprots resisted the Coup, and with the brave assistance of ELDYK, who were not apparently a part of the coup plan, held off the Turks for just Long enough , and the Junta then collapsed.

Don't be too certain of any British involvement as Prime Minister Wilson was apparently thought to be a Soviet spy and ihe Americans would not want any risk of anything leaking to the USSR. Indeed had The British been involved they would probbaly hace acceded to Turkish requaets for acces via the SBA. The Brits would have been kept happy after the event by keeping the SBA.

[boomerang]

oh barouti you skipped a post... ....you know the one about the pussy nation we call greece and the imia crisis...and from reliable news from athens with love...

Boom-Boom if I skipped a post it wasnt because I couldnt face the "truth" as per your interepration which can comes across to me like a bray of donkey especially when you end the sentence with a laughing emoticon. You seem to laugh at lot when posting. Boom-Boom are you smoking some good shit when you post. Rather, I am just trying to avoid getting caught up in circle-arguments. I provided an extract from Clinton's memiors that proves that the nation you consider so high and mighty, Turkey, blinked first. End of argument. I cant really respond to everything you post especially when its mainly blah-blah because I'll have to reply with yadidada. And with you posting blah blah and me replying with yadidada, well, we're not going to get anywhere. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Turkey blinked first. Period. But if you really believe that Imia was a Turkish victory and that Greece whimped out, you should put your money where your mouth is and post it in this forum:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/

So come on, Boom-Boom, the "truth" must be told and we evil Griks must be put in our places. Post what really happened in 1996 ie Greece whimped out, in Waff. Sure, the Turks would applaud you madly, but hey, you will also be putting us Kalamarides in our place...

Boom-Boom, you are going to do it. Because zee evil Griks in Waff under the delusion that Turkey blinked first. You can't let them get away with it. You need to do it. You need to let the Turks now they were the winners in 1996.

oh you also missed the consent greece gave turkey in staying in cyprus till the cows come home...

Well, it wasnt Greece, it was Karamanlis. He always did what the Americans told him to do. But this still doesn't prove your claim of "double enosi" ie Greece and Turkey secretly planned to divide Cyprus. You see what I mean by circle arguments. I ask for you to provide evidence of a Greece conspiracy to divide Cyprus but you fail to deliver and instead throw the same things over and over again insisting this is proof when in fact it isn't. Now, Boom-Boom, one more time: please provide evidence that Greece, ie official Greek, US, Nato documents that support your claim that Greece had agreed with Turkey, that nation you consider mighty, to divide Cyprus.

As a sidenote, I wouldnt put it pass Karamanlis that he would have agreed to divide Cyprus if it meant pleasing the Americans, but the mainland Greeks would have strung him by the balls if he did. Maybe you should think about this.

Anyway, so let me know when you posted "what really happened with Imia" in Waff so I can take a look and see if you do have hairs on your balls after all and believe in what you post.

i am not sure about you but this reads, greece went from having a flag on a rock, losing the right to put a flag again, spelling the once greek territty now a grey area...and you call this not a humiliation?...here what one the papers said in greece...

‘Humiliation’

“No troops, no boats, no flags” was the telegraphic de-escalation deal devised by Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke, which 55 percent of Greeks polled at the time described as a “national humiliation”, while 18.5 percent termed it a national defeat.

But the documents show Prime Minister Kostas Simitis’ cooperation in the handling of the crisis won him abiding US support.

Under the US-brokered deal, both Greece and Turkey were forced to remove their troops and flags from the two Imia islets, which had already been proven to be Greek sovereign territory. Since then, the islets have been off limits to any Greek, even the shepherd from nearby Kalymnos who kept goats there.

As then US ambassador in Athens Thomas Niles wrote, it also fanned Greek anti-Americanism. Another, informal aspect of the deal was that the then fledgling Greek government, through Foreign Minister Theodoros Pangalos (currently George Papandreou‘s deputy premier), agreed to Ankara’s key demand that it would not exercise Greece’s right to extend its territorial waters from six to 12 miles.

Simitis drew an avalanche of criticism for telling the Greek parliament that he “thanked the Americans” for their mediating the deal (his popularity dropped from 85 percent to 37).

After the crisis, US National Security Advisor Anthony Lake sought a Greek statement that would go far in reaching an understanding with Turkey. The following year, Simitis co-signed with his Turkish counterpart the so-called Madrid Declaration recognising Turkey’s “vital interests” in the Aegean.

Simitis and Pangalos argue that the deal thwarted Turkish aims of Aegean co-sovereignty and broad negotiations over Ankara’s territorial claims, but many still believe the price was steep.
http://www.athensnews.gr/issue/13361/20326?action=print

and you want me to post this on the WAFF?...for what?... so the turks can have additional laughs?...are you for real?...it was a total humiliation...greece failled miserably in securing her right over the rocks and you think they will fight for cyprus?...but in your books turkey blinked first, end of argument?...errr ok...

Mind you at that time greece was more equipped than turkey and she could have won any conflict with ease, she opted for the pussy clause...so she could get a pat on the back from the yanks...total sell out...

i like your responce on the it wasn't the greeks, it was karamanlis that signed away the right for turkey in staying in cyprus on the never never...see the problem with you wannaby greeks , you tend to always blame some one else rather than your own shortcomings...it was the junta, it was karamanlis, it was papandreou...and the same with greece's financial woes...conspiracies in abundance...

on the double enosis, what's there to say...we have a kind of a double enosis prior to '74 with the whole of the island intact...why the coup and the risk in '74?...

barouti were you in favour or against the 1974 coup...

to everything else you posted...yawn...

PS...yes fantaros, i know mike murpy way before you joined the waff...coaldie says hello...

[kimon07]

Double Enosis was definitely a US aim since 1964 but the problem was selling the deal to Greece.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_0000273005/DOC_0000273005.pdf

What may have thhrown their plans out was that Big mak survived, as Cyprots resisted the Coup, and with the brave assistance of ELDYK, who were not apparently a part of the coup plan, held off the Turks for just Long enough...

Unfair not to mention the 300 paratroopers who were flown in and held the airport during the first stage of the invasion, till it was handed over to the Canadinans.

....and the Junta then collapsed.

The junta collapsed the 24d of July. ELDYK (the barracks) finally fell during the second round of the invasion in August, when the Turks could make masive use of tanks and many more units of infantry (and airforce, of ourse). Their total losses exceeded 220 (38 officers)

The paratroopers suffered 29 dead (plane shot down) another 2 (inside plane from friendly a/a fire) and just one (!) on the ground durind the battle of the airport from enemy fire.

[kimon07]

The junta collapsed the 24th of July. ELDYK (the barracks) finally fell during the second round of the invasion in August, when the Turks could make masive use of tanks and many more units of infantry (and airforce, of ourse). Their total losses (of ELDYK) exceeded 220 (38 officers)

[supporttheunderdog]

Unfair not to mention the 300 paratroopers who were flown in and held the airport during the first stage of the invasion, till it was handed over to the Canadinans.

I happily acknowledge the brave contribution of all of those who fought the Turkish invaders including the 300 paratropers and I honour the memory of the dead who lost their lives both in the fight against the coupists andin the battlles against the Turks.

[kimon07]

Unfair not to mention the 300 paratroopers who were flown in and held the airport during the first stage of the invasion, till it was handed over to the Canadinans.

I happily acknowledge the brave contribution of all of those who fought the Turkish invaders including the 300 paratropers and I honour the memory of the dead who lost their lives both in the fight against the coupists andin the battlles against the Turks.

Amen!