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What is the Cyprus Problem?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:58 pm

cypezokyli
do you think that after we build trust u will give up the conspirace theories?
its one thing to say...fights could take place bc we dont trust each other. but another to argue that we have a secret plan in buying you out of cyprus... come on


We cannot build trust because we do not have the desire or the will , if we had these qualities to do this we would have over the past 2 years, all we have done is bicker, refuse a plan and move our issue into the EU platform. Now we see the underhand tactics of your leader pursuing recognition of "RoC" rather than returning to the table to find a comprehensive solution. What will happen to us? has anyone thought of that? Will Turkey recognize both the "RoC" and the TRNC? Do you think that forcing Turkey to recognize "RoC" will have any impact on TCs, do you think they will go running to to join the "RoC"?

It is just these underhand tactics that confirm that GCs will use every means to get back into the north so the secret plan to buy up the north is just another possiblity that GCs will exploit to establish there domination over TCs.

have agreed with your proposals vp. we even argued against piratis and kifeas...remember ?
but as i wrote above u have also to understand that accepting the tc veto or the guarantor powers for a gc already shows that he trusts and he is willing to give it a shot..


These are the just two of the areas where TCs are sensative and any suggestion of change is viewed as being very suspicious that GCs want abolish. What are expected to think? its for our own good not to have Turkey as a guarantor and no veto rights, please we have been called many insulting names but we are not stupid...
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:01 am

It is just these underhand tactics that confirm that GCs will use every means to get back into the north so the secret plan to buy up the north is just another possiblity that GCs will exploit to establish there domination over TCs.

this is just politics
dont confuse the people with the politicians
so long there is no solution pap will fight to get sth from turkey ...usually unsucesfully.... and talat will demand..i dont know liifting the embargos or recognition...at the time unsuccesfully as well
and this where we agreed that they should stop the name calling and sit there assses on the negotiating table


These are the just two of the areas where TCs are sensative and any suggestion of change is viewed as being very suspicious that GCs want abolish.

everything is sensitive on the cyprus problem.
lets take the example of the guarantor rights
for you it has saved you from gcs extremists
for the gcs it kicked them out of their houses
it is a sensitive matter for both
both are understandable

and the same way u need savety valves (which is perfectly understandable) u have also to try and understand that the gcs want also safety valves that this will not happen again. bc u see the turkish army didnot came to punish the EOKA B members. it didnt say u r innocent dont leave. if it did i would also support it. bc that is what i hear from the gcs. r u ready to give them these rights? how do u know it wont happen again? and u dont get that from extremists or nationalists but for farmers who never cared about politics and had to leave.
its the same way for the massacres that took place in 1963 and later, which were also blind. it was not just killing tc extremists. actually it was killing everyone else other than tc extremists.
and as u see most of the people that suffered (gc and tc) were innocent.

the only problem is...as for many other points in the cyprus problem, is that they are sensitive and that both need safety valves. and considering our past asking for those is perfectly understandable. but considering our future... are good excuses and the best recipee for no-solution

and dont think, not even for a second, that the fact that i personally got to accept the guarantor rights of turkey is just bc there is no other choise.
it is true, that there is no other choise
but believe me, if i thought for a minute that the turkish army would invade/save again, or that we (gcs and tcs) will be so stupid as enganging once again in aggresive actions against each other so as to cause turkish intervention...then believe me, i would support u in partition.
it is not just the absence of another choise, it is just an optimistic way of viewing the future.

not to say that especially for this one the savey valves as u call them, i consider them stupid from both sides.
understandable... but still stupid
bc, even if we would take the extreme scenario were there is an acceptable solution giving turkey no legal right to intervene....and then follows an attempt from the gcs to ethnicly cleanse the island.

do u think that turkey will hesitate just for a second in coming to rescue the tcs? or the illegality of the action will stop the turkish army?

thats why for me it doesnt really matter if turkey keeps those rights or not. bc if the tcs are in danger turkey will come whether it has those rights or not. u see i dont tend to trust legality that much.

so conlcuding... the matter is sensitive and stupid at the same time
the way i see it is that any kind of solution that would work depends on us and not on any kind of law.
(just like what i say for pap... to legalisticall way of viewing the problem, although understandable... means: no-solution)
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:53 pm

cypezokyli
this is just politics
dont confuse the people with the politicians


arent they the representatives of the people? see Papadop is more popular then ever he is pursing the correct policies according to GCs who are the people. His underhand tactics are what reflect his and there for his people real intentions of using EU leverage to obtain his demands rather than having to go back to the the table to negotiate in goodfaith with TCs.

and the same way u need savety valves (which is perfectly understandable) u have also to try and understand that the gcs want also safety valves that this will not happen again.


I understand this and have no problems with GCs wanting safety valves that would allow them to feel safe.


not to say that especially for this one the savey valves as u call them, i consider them stupid from both sides.
understandable... but still stupid
bc, even if we would take the extreme scenario were there is an acceptable solution giving turkey no legal right to intervene....and then follows an attempt from the gcs to ethnicly cleanse the island.

do u think that turkey will hesitate just for a second in coming to rescue the tcs? or the illegality of the action will stop the turkish army?



Took Turkey 11 years to act with guarantees how long do you think it would take with no guarantees and a United Cyprus in the EU??
Arent GCs confident enough that they will not do anything to cause Turkey to even consider such action?
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Postby Alexis » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:32 am

Took Turkey 11 years to act with guarantees how long do you think it would take with no guarantees and a United Cyprus in the EU??
Arent GCs confident enough that they will not do anything to cause Turkey to even consider such action?


Yes, but during that 11 years they did not just sit quietly and support the RoC did they? In fact they played an active part in bringing about the division of the island long before 1974.
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