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[boomerang]

Greece warned of public finances collapse

By Kerin Hope in Athens

Greece’s public finances could collapse as early as next month, leaving salaries and pensions unpaid unless a stable government emerges from the June 17 election, according to Lucas Papademos, the technocrat prime minister who left office after this month’s inconclusive vote.

Mr Papademos warned that conditions were deteriorating faster than expected with cash flow likely to turn negative in early June amid a sharp fall in tax revenues and a loosening of spending controls during two back-to-back election campaigns.

Mounting anxiety that Greece is headed for further political instability and a possible exit from the euro has prompted many Greeks to postpone making tax payments, and has also accelerated outflows of deposits from local banks.

Athens bankers estimate that more than €3bn of cash withdrawn since the May 6 election has been stashed in safe-deposit boxes and under mattresses in case the country is forced to readopt the drachma.

The looming cash crunch was revealed on Sunday in an eight-point document published by the Greek newspaper To Vima. A senior government official confirmed its accuracy, adding that Mr Papademos gave the document to President Karolos Papoulias, who discussed it with political party leaders as part of a failed attempt to form a national unity government.

“The state will face considerable difficulty covering its expenses in June,” the document said.

George Zanias, the caretaker finance minister, may try to divert up to €3bn from the Hellenic Financial Stability Fund – set up by official lenders to help recapitalise struggling Greek banks – to provide temporary support for the budget, a ministry official said at the weekend.

But such a move could be opposed by the fund’s board, which set aside the extra financing as a buffer in case of delays in implementing a €45bn recapitalisation plan agreed in March with the EU and International Monetary Fund as part of Greece’s €174bn bailout.

The EU has held back €1bn from its latest tranche of bailout money pending formation of a stable government in Athens.

Another option being considered is to raise larger amounts of short-term government debt at monthly auctions held to maintain a €4bn-€5bn cash reserve in case of emergencies, the same official said.

Greece’s fiscal problems are purely domestic for the moment as its next sovereign debt repayment is not due until August, when a €3.3bn bond held by the European Central Bank and several other eurozone central banks is due to mature.

Yet the knock-on effects of the tax shortfall are already being felt. The finance ministry has halted repayment of value-added tax to Greek exporters, and slashed public investment spending by more than 20 per cent in the first four months.

Greece is back on a knife edge. In a timely and far-reaching series, the FT looks at the potential consequences of it leaving the eurozone

Transfers to the health ministry to pay debts owed to hospital suppliers and pharmacies have been temporarily suspended, obliging patients to pay the full cost of prescription drugs for the first time.

The struggling state electricity utility PPC has received a €250m special payment from the budget to help cover a widening deficit. The utility has been hit by a sharp rise in non-payments of household electricity bills after the finance ministry imposed an extra “solidarity tax” last year that was added to the bills.

“The situation is getting out of hand,” said a private sector economist. “If a government is formed after the June election, it’s going to find that the fiscal programme agreed in March has already been derailed.”

Five opinion polls published over the weekend put the centre-right New Democracy ahead of the radical left Syriza coalition, indicating that efforts by the conservatives to consolidate pro-bailout voters may be making progress.

A poll by Kappa Research gave New Democracy as much as 25.8 per cent, against 20.1 per cent for Syriza, with the PanHellenic Socialist Movement trailing in third place with 13 per cent.

The conservatives gained seven points over last week’s poll, their strongest showing since the May 6 election, after persuading leading members of the small centre-right Democratic Alliance party to join their campaign.

The veteran New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras was seen as the most suitable prime minister with a 40.3 per cent approval rating, compared with 29.8 per cent for Alexis Tsipras of Syriza.

Christine Lagarde, IMF managing director, appeared to row back from comments in an interview with the Guardian newspaper where she professed a lack of sympathy for some Greeks facing hardships including “those people who are trying to escape tax all the time”.

In a comment posted on Facebook, Ms Lagarde said she was “very sympathetic to the Greek people and the challenges they are facing” .

“The last thing we in Greece seek is her compassion,” Mr Tsipras said.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fec2a4e2-a817-11e1-b8a9-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1wAr5KwgR

yes it was georgie that started all this, ain't that right kimon...it wasn' t the corrupt system that allowed individuals to gang rape greece's economy...no it was the germans and their corruption ...no maybe everyone hates the greeks...

yes greece is singled out...other countries might run large defecits and here is the big but for the knuckleheads out there, the countries that run large deficits are more than meeting the interests paymenst along with government responcibilities...so don't go hoping your ignorance and constipated theories will influence anyone...

greece needs to chance...big time and wish her best of luck...she will need it if she stays in the eurozone...getting out of the euroze, she can kiss any hope of recovery as she will then be singled out for breaking the euroze and gowd help her then...kicked out of the eu perhaps...serious shit, and the greeks better start thinking real quick...

the way i see it there are no conspiracies out there, today it's up to the greeks to decide, it's well and trully in their hands...but judging by the last election i don't think the greeks know what they are voting for...not only they voted no to austerity but they voted no to change, cause the fringe parties told them what they wanted to hear...WRONG...

hope from now till the next election they get educated...

another problem in greece is coalition governments...have they ever had a coalition government?..i believe not...and this is also a crucial factor in the next election...they need to rise above party lines and put country first before and after the election...otherwise they doomed again and the fringe parties win with probably more seats...

[kimon07]

Is this the third thread you are starting on the same subject (the Greek crisis)?

It reminds me of another forum where this tactic is standard practice. The same 2-3 members (you included) starting one thread after the other with subjects referring exclussively to the situation in Greece and to the "ussless" Greeks and the same ones are more or less the only ones who post comments in the threads they start. Boring but also very indicative of your intentions.

[kimon07]

Greece warned of public finances collapse

By Kerin Hope in Athens

Greece’s public finances could collapse as early as next month, leaving salaries and pensions unpaid unless a stable government emerges from the June 17 election, according to Lucas Papademos, the technocrat prime minister who left office after this month’s inconclusive vote.

Mr Papademos warned that conditions were deteriorating faster than expected with cash flow likely to turn negative in early June amid a sharp fall in tax revenues and a loosening of spending controls during two back-to-back election campaigns.......

A misleading title. Greece did not issue such a warning. Said "warning" was included into a "non paper" handed by Papademos to the President of the Republic after he handed power over to the temporary government. What Mr. Papademos forgot to mention was what did HE do while being prime minister to improvr the situation or at least to avoid worsening of it? And he never answered the question about how and why he helped Simitis to cheat the EU into admitting Greece into the Eurozone while he was governor of the Bank of Greece??

[boomerang]

a recap to what young kimon was blabbering...

@ Anna-gr

First to welcome you warmly.

Secondly to congratulate you for your excelent posts.

Thirdly a piece of advise. You will find some people here who's motto is: Ouk an me peiseis kan me peiseis. Don't worry much about them. They are, in any case, very "far away" and I don't mean in terms of dinstances.

Additionally: You will notice most of the ones I referred to before, are intentionally and systematically derailing all posts, regardless of their topic, to anti-greek/pro-greek discussions and to subjects such as: are Greek Cypriots Greeks or not etc. Try not to be dragged in that as it's also contrary to the forum rules (I mean the derailing of the subject of the topic). Subjects like that have been and can be discussed under existing threads in the forum dealing specifically with them.

Otherwise my opinion is that the quality of the Forum is quite good and keeps improving. Hope you will stick around to help in that.

cyprus34659-200.html

wow man you really are the king of the simples...

the new thread outlines a new and dangerous period in greece taking place as we speak, and really nobody has died and put you in charge authorizing who, what and how someone should post, i am with in the rules, something I cannot say about you...jeez the butt hurt is really digging in huh?...

and here you are advicing others the rules...take a hike unless you grow up and start behaving like a human with intelligence and not a dummy wasting precious gases such as oxygen and pulluting the air with farts...

[kimon07]

Vima publishes Papademos non-paper

27 May 2012

Greece's former 'technocrat government' prime minister Lucas Papademos had stressed the dangers ahead if Greece did not receive the next installment of EU-IMF bailout loans, describing the country's financial situation in the blackest possible terms in an unsigned note that he presented to President Karolos Papoulias and that was passed on to the political party leaders on May 11.

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/55825

[boomerang]

kimon you need stop the blame game...what happened happened...water under the bridge...the situation either you look at it is dire...today the greeks will have to decide wisely for themselves and start climbling out of the hole...this is what you need to come to terms with...

believe when they say greece is running out of money...believe when they say stay within the euro...it will be expensive and hardships to be expected...the alternative leaving the euro not only will be catastrophic but suicidal...greeces sovereignity will come into attack as she will start using colladeral for new borrowings in her own currency because you can devaluate so much before saturation sinks in...and she get lynched from the eurozone club for all the expenses greece leaving the euor and not paying her loans...

this will put cyprus in a new situation...cyprus is in the eurozone she will follow directives from brussells...

you think by blaming everything is gonna disappear under the carpet?...

greece needs a change...anna's post was spot on, on the corruption in greece...so what teddy was saying along with georgie...shit yes georgie helped himself to the cookie jar, but the whole system was corrupt way before him and continuous to this very day...

austerity is the way forward...

[kimon07]

kimon you need stop the blame game...what happened happened...

Oh NO! the WHY and the WHO are alo important.

.......water under the bridge...

Oh NO. HEADS MUST ROLL too.

believe when they say greece is running out of money...

Komizeis Glafkan es Athinas (tell me something new for non grek speaking friends).

you think by blaming everything is gonna disappear under the carpet?...austerity is the way forward...

When I attack Greek governments I am not blaming "everybody else" and I am not puting problems under the carpet. I am blaming Greek governments and those who voted for them (Greek voters) BUT also those who supported and directed or concealed the thieving and looting practices of the Greek governments,
such as the EU and the International Banking System and Financial Institutions, who also profited grossly out of the corrupt practices of the Greek governments. Therefore, I maintain that if the blame is to be shared, so should the consequences. Presently, the only ones who are suffering the consequences are those who are to be blamed the least i.e., the vast majority of private and public sector Greek employees, small time businesses and pensioners, who were always paying their taxes (cause they were being withheld from their salaries and pensions), who never made any dirty money and who even lost whatever little savings they had during the dirty scheme of the Greek Stock Market, staged by Simitis and Papandoniou. And young people under the age of 35, who never had the chance to even have a job yet in their lifes.

No sir. Austerity is not the solution. It is widely accepted now that more austerity will simply deepen the crisis. It will mean more recession, more unemployment less consumption, zero growth etc. Investments and Growth are the solution and there are ways to achieve both, starting with the exploitation of the vast reserves of the national resources of the country (the existence of which Georgaki shamefully denied during one of his last press conferences a little before his resignation). It is estimated that the south sea of Crete alone holds maybe even more natural gas than the CY and the Israeli EEZ put together.

[supporttheunderdog]

I was talking to two Greek lawyers today who really were worried about the future of Greece, in particular the popularist promises to restore the wages and pensions of many in public service, to bring large numbers of people back into public service, to renationalise Olympic Air and abolish the army, disrergarding the threats to Greece from Turkey, fending of questions from reporters with some glib remarks from the politicians about dealing with Turkey when it happens.They say It is so bad that the government is basically robbing individuals bank accounts calling it taxation.

The politicians Promise Greece will be saved by the oil in the Aegean, which apparently ignores the point that (according to some reports) the costs of extrsction could be dispropotionate, as well as ignoring the political aspects. That or Russia and or China and or Iran and or Venezuela will bail them out -
but at what price?

It all struck me as being sane and sensible analysis from two intelligent people who really were looking to escape Greece if they could.

[kimon07]

Does another Leviathan lurk offshore Crete?

Pytheas Chairman & Group CEO, Mr. Harris A. Samaras is interviewed by Interfax
May 13, 2012 | Filed under: Featured News,Geopolitics

At an interview with Interfax’s Editor and Senior Reporter Leigh Elston, Pytheas Chairman & Group CEO, Harris A. Samaras expressed Pytheas’ opinion that Europe is currently confronted with a unique challenge and a remarkable opportunity! The already confirmed and estimated discoveries of substantial hydrocarbon deposits in the Southeastern Mediterranean signify that for the first time ever in Europe’s energy history, the EU may be guaranteed an uninterrupted supply of a traditional energy source!
A most important development (and a pan-European one), especially in view of recent scientific estimates that imply huge hydrocarbon deposits lie in the south and southwest of Crete. A development that the government of Greece has to set as priority and ensure that an appropriate framework and solid plan are put in place in order to commence investigation as quickly as possible.
http://interfaxenergy.com/natural-gas-n ... ore-crete/

“Small Alaska”

Antonis Foskolos researcher and founder of the Division of Mineral Resources at TUC "sees" the south of Crete as a small "Alaska"and talks about mythical reserves of around 3 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, which if exploited can finally get the country out of the crisis. Other scientists are more reluctant and state, highlighting the geological peculiarities of the region, that without studies, nothing is given.

The researcher and emeritus Professor - Consultant of the Canadian government argued at a recent event in Ierapetra that at the marine region south of Ierapetra in Lassithi, the so called Basin of Herodotus holds 3 trillion cubic meters of gas, equivalent to 19 billion barrels of oil. That is an "Alaska". He also mentioned deposits off the Bay of Messara in Heraklion and to the south of Gavdos.
http://crete-frangokastello.blogspot.co ... th-of.html

[kimon07]

I was talking to two Greek lawyers today who really were worried about the future of Greece, in particular the popularist promises to restore the wages and pensions of many in public service, to bring large numbers of people back into public service, to renationalise Olympic Air and abolish the army, disrergarding the threats to Greece from Turkey, fending of questions from reporters with some glib remarks from the politicians about dealing with Turkey when it happens.They say It is so bad that the government is basically robbing individuals bank accounts calling it taxation.

A very precise analysis of the present and of what awaits Greece if this guy Tsipras, who promises all the above, comes to power. When asked where he will find the funds for what he promises the answer is: Further taxes to the businesses and further cuts of the defence budget. Isn't it all so simple for the Marxist boy? Oh yes. He also promised to legitimize all existing illegal immigrants and all those ho will enter the country in the future. And naturally, he promised to grant them voting rights, so as to secure his reelection for ever (until they start electing their own muslim government).

Did they tell you about the taxation which the previous government imposed on flat owners who inhabit their own flats? They are being taxed on the market value of the area rental as if they would had been renting out their flat. i.e., the fact that they use their own property as their residence is considered as income equal to the rental they would be collecting if they were renting it

Additionally, flat and house owners are being and will be taxed with an annual tax calculated and set according to the floor area of their property and which is about 6 euros annually per sq. m of floor space.

All free lancers and free professionals (lawyers, doctors, engineers, architects etc) are obliged to pay a special tax of 500 euros per year, over and above the income tax which corresponds to their actual incomes. This is applied even to free professionals who did not generate any income in 2011, or lost their jobs or who had registered as free professionals for the first time in their lives but did not have the chance to work or take up any projects or jobs yet.