Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nickp]

After having spent an enjoyable 2 weeks in south Cyprus this summer i'd like to point out a few observations that started to make Cyprus feel more like a unified state, even though it's not yet.

I witnessed more TC's started to mix in the south, noticbly two tc's with ROC passports who had taken the same plane, eurocypria, to get to the island. Also, after having visited the village of 'Platres' in the troodos moutains I saw a number of TC's sitting in the restraunt/caffee among millions of GC's. You would have never of known they were Greek or Turkish until they spoke! Furthermore, many young people had music that was either in Turkish or Turkish/Greek duet.

It's this type of mingling I would like to see in a unified state, rarther than you guys on that side and us on our side.

However, there are bigoted members of the GC community as i overheard on the beach that is mostly made up of GC locals. To quote, the guy said, "There's no such thing as a good TC." And then continued to moan that his friends keep on going to the North and saying that the TC's fish and bottled water is better than the south, etc..etc...However, as much as i kind of liked the guy i put it down to his pig ignorance! I mean, he even said that British born GC's are no good for GC's girls in Cyprus as we have tattoes and wear ear rings etc.... Despite my self right infront of him with neither!!!

I never visited the north as i was too scared to put petrol in as it was so expensive for diesal!

Regardless, seeing with Turkish quarters of Larnaca and Limmasol it would be nice to see these resettled to some degree in a given solution to help with integration. I visited one Turkish village, Kofinou, and it was strange to see Greeks living in a TC's village with immigrant workers from Africa and the phillipines. This is not a small village either, i think it has expanded hugely as displaced GC's have settled here.

Overall, i think the realities on the ground is pointing towards we can live together successfully, problem is, how much are both sides willing to sacrifice to achieve it.

[garbitsch]

Nikp, thanks for sharing your observations you had during your visit to Cyprus. I am totally with you when you said "Overall, i think the realities on the ground is pointing towards we can live together successfully, problem is, how much are both sides willing to sacrifice to achieve it". I think the more we trust each other, the more we will be willing to sacrfice...

[Piratis]

Overall, i think the realities on the ground is pointing towards we can live together successfully, problem is, how much are both sides willing to sacrifice to achieve it.

Actually it is the opposite in the case of GCs. The more we sacrifice the more dividing will be the "solution" since the aim of the Turkish and TC leadership is a weak confederation between 2 mainly independent states.

Things like human rights and democracy can not be sacrificed so we will have a "solution" that will make the north part of our own country as united to us as Finland is. Such kind of "solution" might bring more TC tourists in Platres, but not much beyond that.

[Nickp]

I disagree to some extent, any solution will mean sacrifices on both ends.

Not all GC's will be able to return home, at the same time i can't expect 200,000 GC's flocking over to their former homes as they are comfortable in the south. However, the Turks will have to give up alot of teritory and compesation and there will be huge population movements in the North, some settlers will leave but a significant amount will stay. Turkish troops will leave over a quicker time frame, however there will be a contigent of 700 to stay. These are some of the sacrifices that will be made by either side.

However, once each other side appreciates what each other is giving up, i think then they will realise that sacrifice should make an effective working country, in which both communities can live side by side in peace and prosper. And if a two state solution is the way, lets do it as it will be much better than the status quo and we should be thinking about making a prosperous future rarther than trying to regain everything pre-1974 or holding onto the fruits of war.

I dont think each side realises how much of a sacrifice it is untill they think of the person in each others shoes. I mean if i was a TC, for the Turkish army to leave that has kept peace for the TC's and to have huge Turks moving around and out the north would be quite worrying. What would happen to myself and security? At the same time a GC would proberbly think that it's not enough as they want back everything they had and was pre-74 and would be deeply bitter.

Over the past three decades, both sides are to blame for their stubberness. But without being too biased, i feel the Turkish side has been the side more at fault for being an obstacle.

I mean, i was amazed of the latest Annan plan that Turkey was actually prepared to do something positive for once and Denktash was out the picture!!! It was radical new thinking from Ankara of which sent certain Turkish parlimentrians balistic, paritcular Ecevit. So this made me give Turkey lots of repsect.

However, despite the one sided plan, I was saddened that despite Turkey's positive efforts they didn't go all the way and sieze the opportunity to really solve the problem by tackling more effectively core issues.

However, i belive a fairer plan will emerge over the next several years as Turkey starts to soften and behave more reasonable through EU negotiations. However, at the same time, don't expect a miracle plan!!! There will be sacrifices!!!!

One observation i made during the referendum, is that most GC's living in England, particularly the older generation, were for the plan and labelled the GC's in Cyprus as dumb for missing the opporunity. However, the GC viewpoint in Cypru was exactly the opposite.

[labwolf]

From a foreigner's point of view, living for 6 years in Cyprus now, I'm not that hopefull for a future united Cyprus, because there are too may Cypriots who never left the island since they were born. Without no doubt for me this was only possible if it were up only to Cypriots living abroad. They have experienced high levels of multi-cultural communities living together under the same roof.

Another aspect that worries and confuses the whole debate on the Cyprob is the wrong use of trems: what Cypriots should seek is a "settlement", an agreement between (minimum) 2 (equal) parties. I can't see this policy beeing followed by any of the 2 governments
Actually, the policy seems to be seeking a "solution"(that is something unilateral) on both sides. I don't want to exclude that the solution could be a settlement, but as it looks the way goes more for permanent partition. For me there seem to bee too many obstacles and the more time passes the less a settlement will be reached. I can't decide whether this is good or bad.

[Piratis]

Without no doubt for me this was only possible if it were up only to Cypriots living abroad. They have experienced high levels of multi-cultural communities living together under the same roof.

I lived abroad in democratic multi-cultural countries were people are not separated based on their race, they have the same rights and voting power and their human rights are respected. Were are you coming from? Are these universal principles not applied in your country? Or maybe you want to force something different in our country than what you would accept for yours?

[Bananiot]

Living a lifetime in our microcosm is a big problem. Cypriots that study abroad do not count as most of the time they create a little Cyprus around them and behave as though they have never left the island while they formulate in their mind a barrage of shortcomings for the country where they stay.

Our society is also extremely conservative and Cypriots in general are scared of changes, let alone, the turks. I think, even if the best plan is proposed, the chances are we will still reject it.

[Main_Source]

hey look...its Denktash's secret agent again.

[Piratis]

Living a lifetime in our microcosm is a big problem. Cypriots that study abroad do not count as most of the time they create a little Cyprus around them and behave as though they have never left the island while they formulate in their mind a barrage of shortcomings for the country where they stay.

Yet more vague statments. Who are creating shortcomings for our country are those that are trying to force on us something undemocratic and against human rights that exists in no other country in the world.

[Nickp]

Living a lifetime in our microcosm is a big problem. Cypriots that study abroad do not count as most of the time they create a little Cyprus around them and behave as though they have never left the island while they formulate in their mind a barrage of shortcomings for the country where they stay.

Don't foreign people in other countries do the exact same thing though? For example, in Cyprus don't all the british ex-pats congregate together and drink in their own pubs, have their own karioke? In Limmiassol there are a couple of large bars where just british people go in. Also, dont the Russian community in Cyprus have their own clubs etc....so i dont think you can blame Cypriots studying aboard to mingling within their own commmunity.

Furthermore, in terms of Cyprus not being mulit-cultural, i admit it's not on the same level as britian due to the scale of the coutry. However, i do belive Cyprus is becoming mulit-cultural. When i came to Cyprus in the summer, i was shocked to see philopeno women in our village who spoke Greek in a Cypriot dialect. There were also Russian people who spoke the same, they were really beautiful looking as i've never seen fair skinned blonde girls speak in a cypriot dialect. Is there also not an array of communities growing in Cyprus? Eastern european, Chinese, British, Sri Lanken. I even saw a half Greek Cypriot/Philopeno kid being picked up from school.So i don't believe Cyprus is as you are suggesting. The one thing good about this it is changing the small island mentality as there is a race hierachy with Sri Lankens being at the bottom. I was shocked how some were treated compared to their Russian counterparts.

However, pointing this back to the original question, Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots have alot more in common despite the different cultures. So given the right circumstances i think they will be able to get on alot better than you think.