Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

So Bananiot wanted Makarios to support the plan constructed by the representatives of the Junta and Turkey, which would split Cyprus for ever.

[Bananiot]

Rubbish, as usually. The talks were held by Klerides and Denktash. Greece and Turkey contributed with legal matters only. It was an excellent proposal and all books I have read state that the TC's practically accepted the 13 points Makarios had asked in 1963. Nobody has claimed that Dekleris was a supporter of the junta. He was just a respected judge who had to live in Greece, like millions of Greeks, during the dark ages of the colonels. It was huge opportunity missed and when people cannot find the strength to support even this, I just wonder if it is worth to continue to talk here. In the meantime, is seems the admin is happy to allow people to call me a traitor, but when I respond in kind, my posts suddenly disappear.

[Lordo]

Don't take the fanatics too seriously, thay can't help being blinded by the brainwashing they have recieved.

[kurupetos]

Don't take the fanatics too seriously, thay can't help being blinded by the brainwashing they have recieved.

OK, I won't take you seriously.

[Panicos UK]

Rubbish, as usually. The talks were held by Klerides and Denktash. Greece and Turkey contributed with legal matters only. It was an excellent proposal and all books I have read state that the TC's practically accepted the 13 points Makarios had asked in 1963. Nobody has claimed that Dekleris was a supporter of the junta. He was just a respected judge who had to live in Greece, like millions of Greeks, during the dark ages of the colonels. It was huge opportunity missed and when people cannot find the strength to support even this, I just wonder if it is worth to continue to talk here. In the meantime, is seems the admin is happy to allow people to call me a traitor, but when I respond in kind, my posts suddenly disappear.

I agree. Were the Turkish Cypriots to propose what was agreed between Clerides and Denktash now, the Greek Cypriots would grab it with both hands. But you don't know what information was being fed to Makarios by the British / USA and what exactly was going on behind the scenes. In answer to your question, I think it is worth continuing to talk and debate on here for a number of reasons. I take being called a traitor a compliment - it means you've made somebody uncomfortable because you've challenged their ideas and forced them to think outside their own little mental box. Plus when someone calls you a traitor, what their really saying is 'I am a patriot', a position of arrogance. Anyway, thanks for trying to debate rationally. You increased the IQ of the thread.

[supporttheunderdog]

Admin appears to be quite happy to allow some some posts but not others - indeed despite rules forbidding racism one sees tolleration of Nazi racist propoganda. How long before this one goes by Eg Kurupetos and Yialoser1971.

[kimon07]

Did the Turkish Cypriots accept Makarios' 13 points in 1972? YES or NO? The evidence I have found suggests that yes they did. If they didn't then there would be evidence to prove this surely?

40.000 turkish troops, 400 tanks, 200.000 (?) illegal settlers, 200.000 GC refugees and, and, and, and. Need any more?

enosis ring any bells?

They let you out from that comic book again?

Typical answer of someone who has nothing to say.

Come on now. I was talking about the comic book (s) about the GCs slaughtering the TCs in order to achieve enosis etc, etc. If you want me to call it just Turkish Propaganda that is OK with me.

[kurupetos]

Admin appears to be quite happy to allow some some posts but not others - indeed despite rules forbidding racism one sees tolleration of Nazi racist propoganda. How long before this one goes by Eg Kurupetos and Yialoser1971.

I have good news STUD. Contact the CF's Lost and Found Department. We have your marbles*.

PS. They are NOT in mint condition.

[kimon07]

Excuse me all. The initial question of Panicos was: Did the TCs accept the 13 points of Makarios in 1972?

Was enosis anywhere in the 13 points of Makarios? Was it ever brought in as a 14th point? If Makarios was so determined on promoting enosis all over again then why did Grivas form EOKA B accusing him that he was negotiating new arrangements which were burying the "aspirations" of the Greek Cypriots?

[polarbear35_98]

Wow, what a complete misrepresentation of the facts. If you believe that then you probably believe that the King of the Hellenes and Prime Minister Papendreou were good for Greece in the 1960s.

The truth of the matter is the junta wanted a stable Cyprus just as they wanted a stable Greece. At the end of the monarchy, the birth rate was surpassed significantly by the death rate, the drachma was falling against the dollar and over 50% of the population lived in Athens. Unemployment was high, literacy was low, and Greece had poor infrastructure and poor health care for its people. Cyprus added to the problem in Greece because the junta knew it could not control nor govern Cyprus and have a hostile Turkey at its border. An independent Cyprus protected by the UN would reduce the need for the Greek military and Turkish military to monitor the situation in Cyprus and be close to each other.

The problem in Cyprus was Makarios, plain and simple. If the Greeks and Turks had considered a seperation of church and state, Makarios would have stayed in the clergy, Cyprus would have been unified, and relations between Greece and Turkey would have solidified into something that resembles the friendship between the UK and France. Makarios was a lunatic who believed that he was something that he really was not. He believed that he was the divine appointment by GOD to lead Cyprus. In short he was not a visionary nor a leader but instead he was a well fed priest and nothing more. Makarios was an obstacle to peace in Cyrpus.

Remember, the origional coup leaders were negotiating in good faith with Turkey regarding a self governed Cyprus. The fortunes for Cyprus fell apart when Papdopoulos and the other military leaders were betrayed by Ioannides. Ioannides believed that if he overthrew Makarios, he could gain control of Cyprus. He arrested Papdopoulos and the others. Then he ordered the military forces in Greece to surround the palace in Nicosia to take Makarios.

By the way, if anyone doubts this view, I was there with Judge Dekleris when he was working with Altikati from Turkey to resolve the problems created by Makarios. I remember the frustrations and the meetings in both Nicosia and Famagusta.

Lordo, Makarios rejected the deal because in it an explicit mention was made against enosis and taksim (this was a precondition that Turkey asked in order to support the agreement). Even Pavlides confirms this in his book and more so Michael Dekleris.

Is this the same Dekleris who was appointed by the Junta?

Ο κύριος Δεκλερής είναι γνωστός για τη μακρά αξιόλογη δικαστική σταδιοδρομία, όσο και από το γεγονός ότι το 1972 ορίστηκε από τη χούντα του Παπαδόπουλου ως ο επίσημος συνομιλητής της Ελλάδας με την Τουρκία για το σύνταγμα της Κύπρου.

http://www.avgi.gr/ArticleActionshow.ac ... eID=548913