Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

The answer is NO.

They communities came "close" to agreeing but they never did. The Turks accepted "some" of the 13 points but requested other arrangements which strengthened even more their position and weekend even more the republic.

And here is the source:

You will find in it the various stages of the talks and thier content.


“Entangled Allies”

http://books.google.gr/books?id=PvDFQh- ... 72&f=false

[kimon07]

Did the Turkish Cypriots accept Makarios' 13 points in 1972? YES or NO? The evidence I have found suggests that yes they did. If they didn't then there would be evidence to prove this surely?

40.000 turkish troops, 400 tanks, 200.000 (?) illegal settlers, 200.000 GC refugees and, and, and, and. Need any more?

enosis ring any bells?

They let you out from that comic book again?

[kurupetos]

Panicos, obviously nothing was agreed in 1968-72 and nothing has been agreed in the current negotiations. Use your common sense.

There being no final agreement and saying that 'nothing was agreed' do not mean the same thing. You can apply this both to the 68-72 talks and the current (2008-) talks. For example we know in the current talks that Christofias and Talat agreed to some kind of rotating presidency. There was no official document for this was there? Christofias has complained that Eroglu has 'backtracked on previously agreed positions'. What are these positions? There has been no official document on what has been agreed (although Talat wanted to release something when he was 'in power'). Obviously there is a 'private' not public record of convergences and divergences. Only a fool would deny this.

Obviously I meant a final signed agreement, not intermediate informal agreements, which are not binding, and therefore useless, for future negotiations.

[Viewpoint]

Did the Turkish Cypriots accept Makarios' 13 points in 1972? YES or NO? The evidence I have found suggests that yes they did. If they didn't then there would be evidence to prove this surely?

40.000 turkish troops, 400 tanks, 200.000 (?) illegal settlers, 200.000 GC refugees and, and, and, and. Need any more?

enosis ring any bells?

They let you out from that comic book again?

Typical answer of someone who has nothing to say.

[Panicos UK]

The answer is NO.

They communities came "close" to agreeing but they never did. The Turks accepted "some" of the 13 points but requested other arrangements which strengthened even more their position and weekend even more the republic.

And here is the source:

You will find in it the various stages of the talks and thier content.


“Entangled Allies”

http://books.google.gr/books?id=PvDFQh- ... 72&f=false

Thanks for doing a bit of research Kimon07. On the Turkish Cypriot acceptance of the 13 points, Makarios' letter says 'mostly all' Clerides claims 'practically all' and your source says 'a number'. I don't know if I agree with your comment about the Turkish Cypriots strengthening their position 'even more' and weakening the republic. The Republic would have been strengthened surely? As for the Turkish Cypriots, they were not exacty living it up were they? My point is, they were not in a strong position at all.

[Lordo]

The negotiators agreed, it was Makarios who vetoed it. Starange nobody has mentioned why he vetoed it. What was his reason?

[Bananiot]

You can get all the answers you need from "Kipriako 1972 - 1974: I teleftaia efkairia, 1981, by Dekleris M*. Also, a book by Andros Pavlides (close friend and admirer of Makarios) in his book "Makarios" 1976, claims that in September 1972 the leadership of the Turkish Cypriots was forced to make huge concessions but the Greek Cypriots (read Makarios) were slaves to their passion for enosis and were totally incapable of seeing and understanding that enosis was totally not feasible.

* This is Michael Dekleris, the Greek judge who participated in the talks of 1972, with Professor Aldikacti of Turkey and the UN special representative Osorio Taffal. By the end of the year the talks bore fruits. In December 1972, Klerides advised Makarios that an agreement was reached and that he should ratify it. Makarios did not want to know using as an excuse the forthcoming Presidential elections. Klerides tried hard to convince him, along with Dekleris. In his "My deposition" Klerides considers this a missed opportunity and claims that Makarios did so because he did not the maximum he was aiming.

Read Dekleris book (straight from the horses mouth) though, you would be banging your head on the wall, if you have any decency. If not, you can continue to live in denial, believing all the lies you were fed with by those that lent a hand in destroying Cyprus.

[Bananiot]

Lordo, Makarios rejected the deal because in it an explicit mention was made against enosis and taksim (this was a precondition that Turkey asked in order to support the agreement). Even Pavlides confirms this in his book and more so Michael Dekleris.

[kurupetos]

Lordo, Makarios rejected the deal because in it an explicit mention was made against enosis and taksim (this was a precondition that Turkey asked in order to support the agreement). Even Pavlides confirms this in his book and more so Michael Dekleris.

Is this the same Dekleris who was appointed by the Junta?

Ο κύριος Δεκλερής είναι γνωστός για τη μακρά αξιόλογη δικαστική σταδιοδρομία, όσο και από το γεγονός ότι το 1972 ορίστηκε από τη χούντα του Παπαδόπουλου ως ο επίσημος συνομιλητής της Ελλάδας με την Τουρκία για το σύνταγμα της Κύπρου.

http://www.avgi.gr/ArticleActionshow.ac ... eID=548913

[Bananiot]

So, kurupettos, this is all you are going to say? You question the validity of Dekleris because the junta appointed him and Makarios accepted his appointment as the expert at the intercommunal talks of 1972? Are you therefore saying that he was a junta supporter? You do not want to know that he, along with his Turkish counterpart and the Cypriot negotiators worked out a workable plan that had it been endorsed by Makarios Cyprus would have been a free country now? Instead of blaming Makarios for his blatant arrogance and inability to read into the politics at the time, you blame a Greek judge who happened to be in Greece during the junta period and accepted to help in the efforts to solve the Cyprus issue. Immaculate thinking, I must admit.