Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

Again, some fierce debate on this issue. The research I carried out for my MA dissertation was pretty conclusive in that the TC leadership did eventually agree on these points but that Makarios was not satisfied as he wasn't prepared to grant the Turkish Cypriot community local government. Again, I'm interested to see what people think on this issue.

Being very simple minded I have a very naive question to ask. If the TCs accepted the 13 points then why did they withdraw from the RoC and caused the inter communal conflict accusing Makarios of violating the constitution unilaterally?

Concerning Lordos comment that Clerides and Denktash accepted them but Makarios rejected them. Are we trying to play it stupid here? Clerides and Makarios were the same at that time. Who ever heard of Makarios rejecting his own proposals after the latter had been accepted by the Turks? Jesus!

We're interested in the situation during the intercommunal talks (1968-1972). The acceptance of the 13 points came in 1972 (9 years after the Turkish Cypriot leadership tried to bring down the government). Do you have any info on these talks?

You can nmot isolate periods if you want to find the truth and the intentions behind the facts. So, I suggest you also read these chapters out of the book I quoted above:

C7-1: 1967 – The Clandestine Return of the Planted
Terrorist 332
C8: 1964 – British Plan “The Future of Cyprus” 333
C9: British Military cooperation with the Turkish Cypriots 334
C9-1: The Facts 334
C9-2: British Military Personnel against Greek Cypriots 336
C9-3: The “disappearance” of Major E.F.L. Macey and
his driver L. Platt 339
C9-4: “Get them all out of Cyprus for reasons of
national policy 340
C9-5: Martin Packard and the myth of Ethnic cleansing 341
Chapter D: The Turkish Invasion of Cyprus,
July & August 1974
D1: “Co-patriots pay attention” 344
D2: Newspaper THE SUN “BARBARIANS – Shame on them” 345
D3: The rapes of Greek Cypriot young girls, mothers
and grandmothers 350
D4: “Turk atrocities: What secret report reveals” 351
The terrible secrets of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus 351
1. Killing 352
2. Rape 354
3. Torture 356
4. Looting 359
D5: “The last church standing in occupied Cyprus” 360
Epilogue 365

[Panicos UK]

Again, some fierce debate on this issue. The research I carried out for my MA dissertation was pretty conclusive in that the TC leadership did eventually agree on these points but that Makarios was not satisfied as he wasn't prepared to grant the Turkish Cypriot community local government. Again, I'm interested to see what people think on this issue.

Being very simple minded I have a very naive question to ask. If the TCs accepted the 13 points then why did they withdraw from the RoC and caused the inter communal conflict accusing Makarios of violating the constitution unilaterally?

Concerning Lordos comment that Clerides and Denktash accepted them but Makarios rejected them. Are we trying to play it stupid here? Clerides and Makarios were the same at that time. Who ever heard of Makarios rejecting his own proposals after the latter had been accepted by the Turks? Jesus!

We're interested in the situation during the intercommunal talks (1968-1972). The acceptance of the 13 points came in 1972 (9 years after the Turkish Cypriot leadership tried to bring down the government). Do you have any info on these talks?

You can nmot isolate periods if you want to find the truth and the intentions behind the facts. So, I suggest you also read these chapters out of the book I quoted above:

C7-1: 1967 – The Clandestine Return of the Planted
Terrorist 332
C8: 1964 – British Plan “The Future of Cyprus” 333
C9: British Military cooperation with the Turkish Cypriots 334
C9-1: The Facts 334
C9-2: British Military Personnel against Greek Cypriots 336
C9-3: The “disappearance” of Major E.F.L. Macey and
his driver L. Platt 339
C9-4: “Get them all out of Cyprus for reasons of
national policy 340
C9-5: Martin Packard and the myth of Ethnic cleansing 341
Chapter D: The Turkish Invasion of Cyprus,
July & August 1974
D1: “Co-patriots pay attention” 344
D2: Newspaper THE SUN “BARBARIANS – Shame on them” 345
D3: The rapes of Greek Cypriot young girls, mothers
and grandmothers 350
D4: “Turk atrocities: What secret report reveals” 351
The terrible secrets of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus 351
1. Killing 352
2. Rape 354
3. Torture 356
4. Looting 359
D5: “The last church standing in occupied Cyprus” 360
Epilogue 365

I'm interested in the intercommunal talks which took place between 1968 and 1972 and what was agreed/discussed. That's the focus of this thread. Do you have any info on these talks? According to GIG, she couldn't find any information about this whatsoever. I hope you're not going to spin that line also.

[kimon07]

I'm interested in the intercommunal talks which took place between 1968 and 1972 and what was agreed/discussed. That's the focus of this thread. Do you have any info on these talks? According to GIG, she couldn't find any information about this whatsoever. I hope you're not going to spin that line also.

Facts deriving from my posts and quotes prove that the talks were irrelevant because the Turks and the Brits had made up their minds of what to bring upon Cyprus, long time before they trapped Makarios into submitting the 13 points. And by the way. Why should GIG or anyone else waste their time trying to find information which support your "opinion" but do not exist? It is you who must search for information supporting your thesis. And especially when your thesis (or question) is so evidently contradictory (Makarios proposes the 13 points and when Denktash accepts them Makarios rejects them? Mercy). And the other joke that Makarios rejected HIS 13 points because they did not secure Enosis? Christ. The 13 points were amendments to the constitution (internal status of governance) not to the international status of the RoC.

As far as I am concerned the inter communal talks of 1968-1972 were none other than a "theater" staged by Britain and Turkey which aimed from the beginning to drive the relations of the two communities to a dead end,blame the Garek Cypriots for the failure to reach a solution, create the right conditions for the provocation of a Turkish invasion and thus achieve the partition of the island which was always the Turko-British plan since as early as 1956. In other words, they were no diferent than the ones held today and their aim was the same as today. Annan Plan (partition of Cyprus - Turkish Province to the North, Francolevantine South as a British Protectorate).

[GreekIslandGirl]

...
I'm interested in the intercommunal talks which took place between 1968 and 1972 and what was agreed/discussed. That's the focus of this thread. Do you have any info on these talks? According to GIG, she couldn't find any information about this whatsoever. I hope you're not going to spin that line also.

But you already said there's nothing:

Why would there be an official document? The talks ended in 1972 without success. These were closed meetings and the press wasn't briefed on developments. It's similar to the talks going on at present. They're not releasing official documents are they? Apart from a few leaks, we haven't got a clue as to the negotiating positions/proposals.

[kurupetos]

Panicos, obviously nothing was agreed in 1968-72 and nothing has been agreed in the current negotiations. Use your common sense.

[Panicos UK]

I'm interested in the intercommunal talks which took place between 1968 and 1972 and what was agreed/discussed. That's the focus of this thread. Do you have any info on these talks? According to GIG, she couldn't find any information about this whatsoever. I hope you're not going to spin that line also.

Facts deriving from my posts and quotes prove that the talks were irrelevant because the Turks and the Brits had made up their minds of what to bring upon Cyprus, long time before they trapped Makarios into submitting the 13 points. And by the way. Why should GIG or anyone else waste their time trying to find information which support your "opinion" but do not exist? It is you who must search for information supporting your thesis. And especially when your thesis (or question) is so evidently contradictory (Makarios proposes the 13 points and when Denktash accepts them Makarios rejects them? Mercy). And the other joke that Makarios rejected HIS 13 points because they did not secure Enosis? Christ. The 13 points were amendments to the constitution (internal status of governance) not to the international status of the RoC.

As far as I am concerned the inter communal talks of 1968-1972 were none other than a "theater" staged by Britain and Turkey which aimed from the beginning to drive the relations of the two communities to a dead end,blame the Garek Cypriots for the failure to reach a solution, create the right conditions for the provocation of a Turkish invasion and thus achieve the partition of the island which was always the Turko-British plan since as early as 1956. In other words, they were no diferent than the ones held today and their aim was the same as today. Annan Plan (partition of Cyprus - Turkish Province to the North, Francolevantine South as a British Protectorate).

Can you explain how the question is contradictory?

Did the Turkish Cypriots accept Makarios' 13 points in 1972? YES or NO? The evidence I have found suggests that yes they did. If they didn't then there would be evidence to prove this surely? You're not denying the talks took place I see, so what was discussed? Let's have it.

[Panicos UK]

Panicos, obviously nothing was agreed in 1968-72 and nothing has been agreed in the current negotiations. Use your common sense.

There being no final agreement and saying that 'nothing was agreed' do not mean the same thing. You can apply this both to the 68-72 talks and the current (2008-) talks. For example we know in the current talks that Christofias and Talat agreed to some kind of rotating presidency. There was no official document for this was there? Christofias has complained that Eroglu has 'backtracked on previously agreed positions'. What are these positions? There has been no official document on what has been agreed (although Talat wanted to release something when he was 'in power'). Obviously there is a 'private' not public record of convergences and divergences. Only a fool would deny this.

[Panicos UK]

...
I'm interested in the intercommunal talks which took place between 1968 and 1972 and what was agreed/discussed. That's the focus of this thread. Do you have any info on these talks? According to GIG, she couldn't find any information about this whatsoever. I hope you're not going to spin that line also.

But you already said there's nothing:

Why would there be an official document? The talks ended in 1972 without success. These were closed meetings and the press wasn't briefed on developments. It's similar to the talks going on at present. They're not releasing official documents are they? Apart from a few leaks, we haven't got a clue as to the negotiating positions/proposals.

NO dearest, YOU said there was nothing and then claimed my sources were not credible because you couldn't find anything Again I invite you to prove me wrong. I'll happily stand corrected if I have made a mistake as to the negotiating positions and provisional agreements of the 68-72 talks. Do you acknowledge the talks took place?

[kimon07]

Did the Turkish Cypriots accept Makarios' 13 points in 1972? YES or NO? The evidence I have found suggests that yes they did. If they didn't then there would be evidence to prove this surely?

40.000 turkish troops, 400 tanks, 200.000 (?) illegal settlers, 200.000 GC refugees and, and, and, and. Need any more?

[Viewpoint]

Did the Turkish Cypriots accept Makarios' 13 points in 1972? YES or NO? The evidence I have found suggests that yes they did. If they didn't then there would be evidence to prove this surely?

40.000 turkish troops, 400 tanks, 200.000 (?) illegal settlers, 200.000 GC refugees and, and, and, and. Need any more?

enosis ring any bells?