Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

VP, it's obvious where you are going with this.

You believe that the TCs as a communtity, should have the right to partition Cyprus under the guise that they have a unitlateral say on the sovereignty of Cyprus.

I'll explain why in terms that you understand why this will fail,

Turkey is recognised as a single sovereign state in the eyes of the UN, and therefore any suggestion of partioning Turkey to create a separate Kurdish state has no legal basis, because although the Kurds have a say in the sovereignty of Turkey, their remit does not extend to dividing it - just like the TCs in Cyprus.

Case closed.

Do the Kurds have an internationally recognized agreement with the Turks, like ours?

You want to force us into minority status in a GC state and we want to go it alone using our right to live on this island without being forced to capitulate to GC demands who we do not trust one iota, thats why you see our demands as unrealistic as they counter your true intentions of island wide dominance.

And what is the " internationally recognized agreement " that we have that gives you the right to partition Cyprus?

On the contrary the only agreement that we have explicitly prohibits any kind of partition.

So not only the Kurds have a territory which belongs to them (Kurdistan) but they also never signed any agreement that prohibits the partition of Turkey. So the Kurds would have 1000 times more right to demand the partition of Turkey than you have a right to demand the partition of Cyprus. Not only the north part of Cyprus does not belong to you, but you have also signed an agreement that prohibits partition.

[Viewpoint]

VP, it's obvious where you are going with this.

You believe that the TCs as a communtity, should have the right to partition Cyprus under the guise that they have a unitlateral say on the sovereignty of Cyprus.

I'll explain why in terms that you understand why this will fail,

Turkey is recognised as a single sovereign state in the eyes of the UN, and therefore any suggestion of partioning Turkey to create a separate Kurdish state has no legal basis, because although the Kurds have a say in the sovereignty of Turkey, their remit does not extend to dividing it - just like the TCs in Cyprus.

Case closed.

Do the Kurds have an internationally recognized agreement with the Turks, like ours?

You want to force us into minority status in a GC state and we want to go it alone using our right to live on this island without being forced to capitulate to GC demands who we do not trust one iota, thats why you see our demands as unrealistic as they counter your true intentions of island wide dominance.

You're missing the point VP,

evething you state above is irrelevant when it comes to the sovereignty of Cyprus, because any "agreement" you ever had does not, in any legal terms, stretch to your unilateral partition of Cyprus - if it did, the Cyprus problem would have been settled years ago by the UN.

At the end of the day, agreement or not, the TCs have the same say in the sovereignty of Cyprus as the Kurds do with respect to the sovereignty of Turkey.

Now stop there.

This is where you go wrong we have more say than the Kurds because we are not what you want to force us to be just another minority, we are a partner with a very strong veto right which is internationally recognized, thats why no one can do anything to force us to yield to your demands.

These agreements which contain your signature provides the international foundation for why we have 50% of the clout in any future solution, can you agree a solution without us? ive got news for you you cant, its about time you realized this and took steps to win us over or you can kiss the north goodbye forever.

[Viewpoint]

VP, it's obvious where you are going with this.

You believe that the TCs as a communtity, should have the right to partition Cyprus under the guise that they have a unitlateral say on the sovereignty of Cyprus.

I'll explain why in terms that you understand why this will fail,

Turkey is recognised as a single sovereign state in the eyes of the UN, and therefore any suggestion of partioning Turkey to create a separate Kurdish state has no legal basis, because although the Kurds have a say in the sovereignty of Turkey, their remit does not extend to dividing it - just like the TCs in Cyprus.

Case closed.

Do the Kurds have an internationally recognized agreement with the Turks, like ours?

You want to force us into minority status in a GC state and we want to go it alone using our right to live on this island without being forced to capitulate to GC demands who we do not trust one iota, thats why you see our demands as unrealistic as they counter your true intentions of island wide dominance.

And what is the " internationally recognized agreement " that we have that gives you the right to partition Cyprus?

On the contrary the only agreement that we have explicitly prohibits any kind of partition.

So not only the Kurds have a territory which belongs to them (Kurdistan) but they also never signed any agreement that prohibits the partition of Turkey. So the Kurds would have 1000 times more right to demand the partition of Turkey than you have a right to demand the partition of Cyprus. Not only the north part of Cyprus does not belong to you, but you have also signed an agreement that prohibits partition.

Then the Kurds should fight for what they believe is right just like us, if you support their cause to have an independent country then why do you deny us, we have international agreements which support our right to a partnership on this island either united or divided.

[Me Ed]

VP, it's obvious where you are going with this.

You believe that the TCs as a communtity, should have the right to partition Cyprus under the guise that they have a unitlateral say on the sovereignty of Cyprus.

I'll explain why in terms that you understand why this will fail,

Turkey is recognised as a single sovereign state in the eyes of the UN, and therefore any suggestion of partioning Turkey to create a separate Kurdish state has no legal basis, because although the Kurds have a say in the sovereignty of Turkey, their remit does not extend to dividing it - just like the TCs in Cyprus.

Case closed.

Do the Kurds have an internationally recognized agreement with the Turks, like ours?

You want to force us into minority status in a GC state and we want to go it alone using our right to live on this island without being forced to capitulate to GC demands who we do not trust one iota, thats why you see our demands as unrealistic as they counter your true intentions of island wide dominance.

You're missing the point VP,

evething you state above is irrelevant when it comes to the sovereignty of Cyprus, because any "agreement" you ever had does not, in any legal terms, stretch to your unilateral partition of Cyprus - if it did, the Cyprus problem would have been settled years ago by the UN.

At the end of the day, agreement or not, the TCs have the same say in the sovereignty of Cyprus as the Kurds do with respect to the sovereignty of Turkey.

Now stop there.

This is where you go wrong we have more say than the Kurds because we are not what you want to force us to be just another minority, we are a partner with a very strong veto right which is internationally recognized, thats why no one can do anything to force us to yield to your demands.

These agreements which contain your signature provides the international foundation for why we have 50% of the clout in any future solution, can you agree a solution without us? ive got news for you you cant, its about time you realized this and took steps to win us over or you can kiss the north goodbye forever.

Yet more irrelevant arguments.

We are not talking about your veto, but your specific rights on the sovereignty of the island.

How many times have you exercised these rights and approached the UN for partition, recognition, direct flights and trade etc. and succeeded?

Answer: A big fat Turkish zero.

[Viewpoint]

You can close your eyes and try to ignore reality but nothing changes the fact that short of war you cannot get the north back, until you realize that you have win us over or forget the north forever.

[Piratis]

VP, it's obvious where you are going with this.

You believe that the TCs as a communtity, should have the right to partition Cyprus under the guise that they have a unitlateral say on the sovereignty of Cyprus.

I'll explain why in terms that you understand why this will fail,

Turkey is recognised as a single sovereign state in the eyes of the UN, and therefore any suggestion of partioning Turkey to create a separate Kurdish state has no legal basis, because although the Kurds have a say in the sovereignty of Turkey, their remit does not extend to dividing it - just like the TCs in Cyprus.

Case closed.

Do the Kurds have an internationally recognized agreement with the Turks, like ours?

You want to force us into minority status in a GC state and we want to go it alone using our right to live on this island without being forced to capitulate to GC demands who we do not trust one iota, thats why you see our demands as unrealistic as they counter your true intentions of island wide dominance.

And what is the " internationally recognized agreement " that we have that gives you the right to partition Cyprus?

On the contrary the only agreement that we have explicitly prohibits any kind of partition.

So not only the Kurds have a territory which belongs to them (Kurdistan) but they also never signed any agreement that prohibits the partition of Turkey. So the Kurds would have 1000 times more right to demand the partition of Turkey than you have a right to demand the partition of Cyprus. Not only the north part of Cyprus does not belong to you, but you have also signed an agreement that prohibits partition.

Then the Kurds should fight for what they believe is right just like us, if you support their cause to have an independent country then why do you deny us, we have international agreements which support our right to a partnership on this island either united or divided.

As I already said, the Kurds have their own territory (Kurdistan) and they should be free to do what they want with it. The Kurds have been on their lands long before the Turks occupied their territory.

On the other hand north Cyprus does not belong to you. It belongs mostly to Greek Cypriots. You just illegally occupy the north part of our island. You can't have independence on lands that you stole from us. If you want independence from Cypriots then feel free to go back to where you came from and have your independence there. We never asked from you to became dependent on us. It is you who choose to come to our island and become a minority here.

There was never any "partnership" in Cyprus. What we had is a specific agreement, which you currently violate and which explicitly prohibits partition. Agreements go as a whole. They are not a buffet where anyone can pick and choose whatever he likes and ignoring everything else.

[Nikitas]

"Get to grips man you have lost 37% of Cyprus forever..."

Remember the outskirts of Vienna. They too were considered lost "forever".

You would be much safer to rely on your Cypriotness to legitimise your claims to all of cyprus, than on a ridiculous notions of neo-ottomanism to cling to a little piece of it.

[Nikitas]

"I take it we have established beyond doubt that the bases do not have an EEZ nor would the A. Plan give them one."

Not quite. We established that the question of EEZ was not raised in the Annan plan. It was not a matter in the forefront of itnernational relations back then. It is now. No one can say what the situation would be if we were under the Annan regime today.

[Nikitas]

"No solution is in sight and Turkey has started to implement plan B."

Annan was plan B in disguise. Read comments by Soysal about making provisions for a time in the future when the two communities might decide to split up etc. If you think that the Turks regarded the Annan plan as a solution you are naive. The Annan plan was a mid way point.

Read Davut's book Strategic Depth and realise who you are dealing with. Read Erdo's speeches when he visited Cyprus, he never once used the phrase Greek Cypriot, or even the deliberately derogatory Rum Cypriot. He refers to GCs as "them". What is in the Annan plan that would change Erdo's mind about "them"? If there is I could not detect it.