Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Arent we all missing the point here, these supposedily 2 "best friends" given the right expolosive situation eg 1974 could have blown each others brains out without even thing twice they had this anger and hate towards each other bottled up. This is very frightening and many examples of this explosive hate was dispalyed in 1974 when many TCs and GCs said that the man who held a gun to our heads was in fact our good neighbour and not a stranger.

Do you all honestly feel that we are any better?? have we really progrossed?? I still sense the hatred and vegence desire in many GCs eg Piratis, Kifeas, Main_Source...of course this may not be a good cross section of GC community but it only takes a few people to influence the rest as we have seen in our history.

Is this a good basis to establish a partnership if we are constantly feel the threat of vegence and repraisals from a community who has a lot of bitterness and anger towards our community, which if ignited could spark the not only the violence of the past but also a need to undermine any agrrements we may reach eg Akritas?

Viewpoint,I have bad news for you (though I think it is good news).
The story I told happened probably in 1967 or 68.True enough things were not explosive between the two communities then.But after the 1974 events some GC militias from distant places did come to kill some TCs in my grandfather's village(he was dead by then from natural causes).But the GCs from neighbouring villages(including people from my gradfather's friend's village) stood up to these thugs and said "You have to kill us first before you will kill one single TC from around here".
My villagers owe their lives to their GC neighbours,and I heard that from more than a few people who lived through those events.
Nothing is black and white in Cyprus,and I can certainly empathise with those people who had to leave their homes forcibly and became refugees in their own country.It would be unnatural if they did not feel a lot of pain,anger and bitterness.

[Alexios]

I will tell you a story as well only this is one is a tale told only for its moral.

Once upon a time, a hunter was lost in the forest.It was winter, the snow was deep and it was freezing cold.The hunter was hungry and desperate when suddenly he saw in front of him a big cave.He went in, happy that atleast he could protect himself.As he entered he saw a great big bear in the corner infront of a fire.Come in said the bear,warm yourself and have some of the nuts and honey here.The hunter went close warmed himself and had something to it.As he got more comfortable he suddenly turned to the bear and said-Can you please move over a bit, I want to sleep a little and your stink is really unbearable...The bear didnt say anything and moved over to the other side of the cave..
A few days passed and when the wheather got better the hunter decided to leave.As he packed up his things, the bear turned to him and said-Pick up your hatchet and hit me hard on the back!!! The hunter was shocked and thought the bear was joking.-Hit me hard or else i ll eat you,the bear threatened.Not having any choice, the hunter hit the bear on the back leaving a great big wound.-Now please go, the bear said in agony..
After a few years, the hunter was in the same area of the forest when suddenly the bear appeared in front of him.He was petrified thinking that the bear would take his own back.But the bear just stood in front of him and said-Remember the wound on my back?? Now look at it,it is completely healed.But what you said to me about me stinking, still hurts me like a huge wound in my heart....The hunter turned away in shame and left without a word...

We may have hurt each other in the past.We may still do.But the worse thing we can do is say words of hatred against each other.Whatever our differences are,atleast during this very wintery phase of our history,lets talk over in a civilised manner.Otherwise the bears of this world will not show the same mercy..

[Main_Source]

Those Greeks were soldiers and died as a result of war. Those T.Cs were civilians and were murdered and burried into mass graves by the cold blooded EOKA B terrorists. Let's draw the line!

Is that what you are told in the Turkish press? Lets face it, any different and the Turkish journalist in question would have to fear for his life.

How about the old GC people that were killed in the summer of 1974?..and how about ordinary GC men who were not soldiers and were either killed or missing. Garbitsch, your turning into a ignorant nationalist moron like VP. Besides, are you telling me ALL the TC that died in the 60's/early 70's were innocent? None of them were part of the violance that occured? Dont tell me that TC were all innocent in the violance that occured lol...thats ridiculous. Your using the lame excuses that are given out by Turkish PR...this is the same country who is guilty of countless human rights violations...who lets the military have a say in government and who's general lifestyle is actually in reverse.

Have you had any major problems since 1974 on the scale of previous years? please answer honestly and refrain from personal insult.

YES! members of my family have had there homes STOLEN from them! For 31 years, they have been forbidden of living in there ancestrol homes.

At the end of the day, I wouldnt expect any different argument from people who obey the brain washing from a backward expanionsist, siege mentality state.

[garbitsch]

You know what I think Main. Don't portray me as a fool. I never said we were innocent. What I am trying to say, Turkish side has not the sole guilt in this Cyprus problem. You should admit that Greeks were also responsible for the division of Cyprus. If you do not, then you are the foolish one. Besides, my family is denied to take their properties in south. Besides my father's house was destroyed in his ancestral homeland. But we do not come up and keep the same story all the time. Be creative. Yes there were civilian Greeks who were died during the summer of 1974. Yes not all Turkish Cypriots that were killed were civilians. I am not going to give numbers, but what is important here is to admid that the Greek terrorist had engaged in more brutal attrocities on the civilians. This is the fact I know. I had also read Greek sources (the objective ones) and they even admit that. (Read Echoes from the Dead Zone)

[Alexios]

At the end of the day, I wouldnt expect any different argument from people who obey the brain washing from a backward expanionsist, siege mentality state.[/quote]

Seems,the bear has not tought you anything....

[Main_Source]

You should admit that Greeks were also responsible for the division of Cyprus. If you do not, then you are the foolish one

How many times do GC here have to admit to it and how many times do TC say that we dont! Do you remember anything you've read on this website before?

Right now though, it's the Turkish military / government who is holding up the Cyprus problem. You only have to look at how Erdogan very recently said he would not except anything less than two states and also how the government led Turkish press continuously writes rubbish upon rubbish to make all you guys believe that the Turkish government, since it was run by Ataturk, is an angel.

Besides, my family is denied to take their properties in south. Besides my father's house was destroyed in his ancestral homeland. But we do not come up and keep the same story all the time. Be creative

Well which country created the physical division of the island? Which country do you honestly believe is being stubborn in the property / homes issue? Which country brought in thousands up thousands of settlers, which mean the returning of property is even more complicated....and "Be Creative"? whats that supposed to mean? There is a problem and you know what the problem is. What, do you want us to make up another problem as like a lie? Are we supposed to sit down and let and Turkey steal our homes and shut up??

[garbitsch]

If you keep waiting for Turkey to do everything, then you will have to wait forever. What I am trying to say, let's sit and talk. What I have observed from both sides that they are reluctant to get into one to one dialogue. They are expecting someone to give them a plan so that they can either accept or reject it.

[Main_Source]

If you keep waiting for Turkey to do everything, then you will have to wait forever. What I am trying to say, let's sit and talk. What I have observed from both sides that they are reluctant to get into one to one dialogue. They are expecting someone to give them a plan so that they can either accept or reject it.

BUT ITS TURKEY WHO IS RUNNING THE NORTH OF THE ISLAND! You know full well that Talat's so called 'power' is only to a certain extent. Unless you want some kind of war to take back the north of the island...then we HAVE to wait for Turkey to stop being so stubborn. At the end of the day, Talat is has no real recognition of any state...on the other hand, Erdogan IS and its HIS army that is occupying the north. Papadopolous is the legitimate leader of the RoC...So what makes more sense to you? Talat has no final say in the running of the illegal regime, so why would RoC want to negotiate with him?

As for someone giving them a plan...Papadopolous has given plans and deals to Turkey, which I recall various TC on this site not having any major problems with...only some discrepencies.........but what was the reaction of Talat to this plan?...no negotiations unless the 'TRNC' is semi-recognised. yet you still come up with the same old waffle that Papadopolous is some murderous hardliner. Its a joke.

[garbitsch]

I said BOTH sides are reluctant. Papadopoulos is benefiting from the CURRENT situation. Everyone is waiting for the begining of Turkey's accession process with the EU. What you are saying is Papadopoulos had given what he wanted and we have to accept them so that we can have a solution in Cyprus. This is what I sensed from your posts.

[bg_turk]

BUT ITS TURKEY WHO IS RUNNING THE NORTH OF THE ISLAND! You know full well that Talat's so called 'power' is only to a certain extent. Unless you want some kind of war to take back the north of the island...then we HAVE to wait for Turkey to stop being so stubborn. At the end of the day, Talat is has no real recognition of any state...on the other hand, Erdogan IS and its HIS army that is occupying the north. Papadopolous is the legitimate leader of the RoC...So what makes more sense to you? Talat has no final say in the running of the illegal regime, so why would RoC want to negotiate with him?

President Talat is the elected representative of the Turkish Cypriot people and as such he is recognized as the legitimate leader of the turkish cypriot community by the UN that is why his signiture must appear under any final agreement for a solution of the Cyprus Problem. In this respect Papadopolous should negotiate only with Talat, since it it TCs, not Turkey, that he wants unification with. If Talat and Papadopolous ever agree on a solution, Turkey would never dare oppose an agreement which TCs support.