Cyprus-Forum.com

[RAFAELLA]

Will Europe Make a Historic Mistake?

As October 3, the start date for Turkey’s membership negotiations approaches, contradictory demands by the European Union (EU) are being made one after the other. On Thursday, the EU issued a counter declaration on Cyprus, ignoring all the legal processes so far.

In fact, Cyprus is just an excuse to slow down Turkey’s accession process or hinder it when necessary. Some member states, France in particular, continue worrying about the negative impact Turkey’s membership would bring. According to the circumstances, if there wasn’t a Cyprus problem, they would definitely have produced another artificial crisis issue.

Cyprus is a 30-year-old crisis. Turkey’s non-recognition of the Greek Cypriots is also known for nearly the same years. The situation was also similar during the Helsinki Summit where Turkey was granted candidate status and during the Brussels Summit where Turkey was given a negotiation date. Now, saying that “If you do not recognize the Greek Cypriots, negotiations won’t work,” may be interpreted as, “We do not want to approve your membership, it would be better for you to quit yourself,” or “If you want to be a member, you have to make irrelevant political concessions as well.”

Turkey accepting one side of Cyprus as an administration representing the entire Island is against international agreements like London and Zurich, the United Nations (UN) processes and the very reason behind the existence of the island. With this recognition, Turkey would have accepted all Greek Cypriot demands, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) would not be legal and the presence of Turkish troops on the Island would also be regarded as “occupation.” [u]The EU wants to violate the legal rights of Turkey’s 70 million population for the illegal rights of 700,000 Greek Cypriots, with its current attitude.

Will Europe make this historic mistake on October 3?

Turkey opponent Angela Merkel’s worse than expected performance in the German elections reduces that possibility, however, it does not eliminate it completely. The EU saying “no” to Turkey would mean further widening the existing gap between it and the Muslim world as well as the Muslim communities living in Europe. The option of the EU being an international strategic actor would almost certainly disappear. It wouldn’t be able to benefit from Turkey’s dynamic economy and young population.

Of course, abandoning the negotiation table on October 3 would also affect Turkey. Initially, an economic shock may be the issue; however, it is possible to be a developed European state without being an EU member, like Norway and Switzerland. Turkey can overcome this trouble; but it is would be impossible for the EU to compensate for its losses. Turkey’s membership would provide opportunities for both parties. The attitude of some European leaders towards Turkey is not compatible with the spirit of the EU or diplomatic morality.

Furthermore, the reason a European giant like France is taking refuge in Greek Cyprus is because of the great democratic leaps Turkey has made. Turkey has taken very important steps democracy-wise since the Helsinki Summit held in 1999. The diplomatic efforts the [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan government has displayed in Europe, and the political risks it took to serve that purpose, are also admirable. The government’s efforts to implement democratic reforms made all Turkey opponents lose all their trump cards. Hence, they are embracing Cyprus as an excuse.

In fact, the Turkish government’s “yes” preference to the Annan Plan on the Cyprus issue, played a significant role in demolishing years of negative perception about Turkey. It explicitly showed that Greek Cypriots were the party that blocked peace in Cyprus. Despite this reality, the EU admitting Greek Cyprus as a member and desiring to punish Turkey and Turkish Cypriots cannot be explained in any rational manner. While the EU does not even mull over softening the economic embargo on the TRNC, it is demanding that Turkey allow Greek Cypriot planes and vessels land in all Turkish airports and seaports. This hesitant attitude does not befit the EU.

October 3 will be a turning point even more for Europe than Turkey. I hope European leaders using Greek Cypriots as a shield do not make a mistake that will exclude Turkey. The one responsible for such a mistake that will influence both parties, will not be Ankara, but Brussels that cannot think explicitly in strategic terms.

By ERHAN BASYURT, ZAMAN newspaper
September 23, 2005
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=columnists&alt ... 6&hn=24441
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Those who feed the turkish public opinion are well trained.

It seems that Turks want to enter EU BUT with their dirty boots - mentality, arrogance.
It seems that they still have no idea of what EU is all about - human rights, respect, principles, etc.

Those who appeal international law, are the ones who violate it.
Those who make recomendations to EU are the ones who fail to fullfil their obligations towards the union.

"The EU wants to violate the legal rights of Turkey’s 70 million population for the illegal rights of 700,000 Greek Cypriots, with its current attitude."
That says it all! How naive, though, can someone be? They haven't been tought that all EU members are equal? They haven't been tought that there are various UN resolutions and ECHR decisions for the "illegal" rights of Gcs?
So what if Trs are 70 million? What is the "quality" of those 70 million though?
Ironic isn't it? Those 700.000 Gcs and their small country, half under turkish occupation, managed to get in the EU whereas the giant with the glass feet, Turkey, and the population of 70.000.000 are still in the queue...

[Viewpoint]

RAFAELLA the EU is displaying double standards as per the norm, one set of rules for Greek Cypriots and one for Turks.
Your application was submitted by a GC leadership at a time when you have boarder problems a divided island and even agreements which can be interpreted as not allowing Cyprus to join any other entity. Surely a community with so many problems should have been told to go away solve all your issues via UN and then come back sometime in the future, but we all know Greece threatened to hold the EU hostage if the did not admit the Greek Cypriot run "RoC"(some call this blackmail) and the rest is history.
Now the EU is using a different yard stick and moving the goal posts at every match, add to this the hot potatoe Greek Cypriots with their own agenda and what do you have caos, I would not be suprised if Turkey does turn away from the EU, leaving the Greek Cypriots with no leverage and egg on their faces due to the back firing of the all so perfect for Greek Cypriots maximilist EU solution. Where will you guys be then???

[cypezokyli]

Those who feed the turkish public opinion are well trained.

everybody who feeds public opinion is well trained

It seems that Turks want to enter EU BUT with their dirty boots - mentality, arrogance.
It seems that they still have no idea of what EU is all about - human rights, respect, principles, etc.

if the europeans want them, they will enter. dirty boots or not, are not as important as you think. it will depend on different countries aims, on political leaders, and the general public feeling at the time of decision (which if negative would more likely be nationalistic or racist rather than care about turkeys boots)

Those who make recomendations to EU are the ones who fail to fullfil their obligations towards the union.

if the EU accepts them, that means it accepts everything that comes with it. and up to now it seems that turkey will continue negotiating.

That says it all! How naive, though, can someone be? They haven't been tought that all EU members are equal? They haven't been tought that there are various UN resolutions and ECHR decisions for the "illegal" rights of Gcs?

they know, and they dont care.

Ironic isn't it? Those 700.000 Gcs and their small country, half under turkish occupation, managed to get in the EU whereas the giant with the glass feet, Turkey, and the population of 70.000.000 are still in the queue...

?
vp answered

but we all know Greece threatened to hold the EU hostage if the did not admit the Greek Cypriot run "RoC"(some call this blackmail) and the rest is history

i would call it politics my friend. it sounds nicer

I would not be suprised if Turkey does turn away from the EU

i would

[Main_Source]

RAFAELLA the EU is displaying double standards as per the norm, one set of rules for Greek Cypriots and one for Turks.
Your application was submitted by a GC leadership at a time when you have boarder problems a divided island and even agreements which can be interpreted as not allowing Cyprus to join any other entity. Surely a community with so many problems should have been told to go away solve all your issues via UN and then come back sometime in the future, but we all know Greece threatened to hold the EU hostage if the did not admit the Greek Cypriot run "RoC"(some call this blackmail) and the rest is history.
Now the EU is using a different yard stick and moving the goal posts at every match, add to this the hot potatoe Greek Cypriots with their own agenda and what do you have caos, I would not be suprised if Turkey does turn away from the EU, leaving the Greek Cypriots with no leverage and egg on their faces due to the back firing of the all so perfect for Greek Cypriots maximilist EU solution. Where will you guys be then???

Get it right...Turkey is causing the problem of a segregated island. You seem to think that Cyprus should not have been admitted into the Eu because they currently share the responibilty of the Cyprus problem with Turkey...when if you face the facts, it's Turkey that is occupying Cyprus. Turkey is the aggressor here....its just a shame your so blind to see it and use your own double standards when not using the same arguments for the Cyprus problems with similarities of your problems with the Kurds and Armenians.

Besides, Turkey entering the EU should have nothing to do with the Cyprus soloution, it just all goes to show how unwilling the Turkish government is to solve the Cyprus problem. As for 'Greek Cypriot maximilist EU soloutions'...only a fool would have accepted the Annan plan to be imposed on themselves.

[Nikiforos]

I would not be suprised if Turkey does turn away from the EU

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Viewpoint]

RAFAELLA the EU is displaying double standards as per the norm, one set of rules for Greek Cypriots and one for Turks.
Your application was submitted by a GC leadership at a time when you have boarder problems a divided island and even agreements which can be interpreted as not allowing Cyprus to join any other entity. Surely a community with so many problems should have been told to go away solve all your issues via UN and then come back sometime in the future, but we all know Greece threatened to hold the EU hostage if the did not admit the Greek Cypriot run "RoC"(some call this blackmail) and the rest is history.
Now the EU is using a different yard stick and moving the goal posts at every match, add to this the hot potatoe Greek Cypriots with their own agenda and what do you have caos, I would not be suprised if Turkey does turn away from the EU, leaving the Greek Cypriots with no leverage and egg on their faces due to the back firing of the all so perfect for Greek Cypriots maximilist EU solution. Where will you guys be then???

Get it right...Turkey is causing the problem of a segregated island. You seem to think that Cyprus should not have been admitted into the Eu because they currently share the responibilty of the Cyprus problem with Turkey...when if you face the facts, it's Turkey that is occupying Cyprus. Turkey is the aggressor here....its just a shame your so blind to see it and use your own double standards when not using the same arguments for the Cyprus problems with similarities of your problems with the Kurds and Armenians.

Besides, Turkey entering the EU should have nothing to do with the Cyprus soloution, it just all goes to show how unwilling the Turkish government is to solve the Cyprus problem. As for 'Greek Cypriot maximilist EU soloutions'...only a fool would have accepted the Annan plan to be imposed on themselves.

The issue of a divided Cyprus is the produce and responsiblity of both communities, surely they should firstly work to resolve their own issues before attempting to enter such a union. Dont forget that we as a community that has rights on this island want Turkey here until we find a comprehensive solution, we do not want to be left to the mercy of GCs. But lets be honest here and not mix our words it was from the outset the intention of the GC administration to carry the Cyprus problem to another platform, to change "the balance of power" as Piratis always puts it. Now Turkey hasnt got the weight of any member state behind it and will at every turn be faced with a concession seeking southern Cyprus, the leverage the the GC weild at the current time will become more evident as the accession talks continue but will Turkey be able to concede to all EU and GC demands, I personally feel the current political structure will say hey I dont have to put up with this and walk away for alternative pastures. IMO the EU should use the same yard stick it has used for other member countries and not continually change the rules of the game, these are clear we dont want you in our club tactics and as Turkey jumps over the hurdles put before her, the EU will use the GC card somewhere along the way to halt or end Turkey aspirations.
But where will this all leave the Greek Cypriots???

[bg_turk]

Get it right...Turkey is causing the problem of a segregated island. You seem to think that Cyprus should not have been admitted into the Eu because they currently share the responibilty of the Cyprus problem with Turkey...

only a fool would have accepted the Annan plan to be imposed on themselves.

You are wrong. If Greek Cypriots had rejected the Annan Plan a llittle earlier, when their EU membership was not a fait acompli, you would have not been accepted in the EU. As Ferheugen said the Greek Cypriots cheated their way into the EU by giving the impression that they were prosolution but at the convenient moment they rejected a solution that was very similar in spirit to what Clerides had previously agreed to in order to enter the EU.
And only naive people would think that the blame is only on one side. Usually when there is a problem both sides share the blame. The current situation in Cyprus is the fault both of GC and TC, Greece and Turkey. If it was not for the past intransigence of President Denktash and the current intransigence of Mr Papadopolous the problem would have been long solved.

[RAFAELLA]

RAFAELLA the EU is displaying double standards as per the norm, one set of rules for Greek Cypriots and one for Turks.

EU doesn't have double standards, TR is asking for double standards. Did you see any other member that wants to enter EU not recognizing one excisting member? ...and arroganlty insisting on that? If TR wants to play the game she must follow the rules and fullfil her obligations.

Your application was submitted by a GC leadership at a time when you have boarder problems a divided island and even agreements which can be interpreted as not allowing Cyprus to join any other entity.

The application was submitted by the worldwide recognized Cyprus Republic NOT by Gc leadership - there's not such a thing no matter how much you rant and rave that there is only Gc administration.
On every official and unofficial document only the name "Cyprus Republic" exist, digest it. Latest example, the counterdeclaration of EU mentions "Cyprus Republic" and not "Gc administration".

Cyprus has joined a union of countries which part of that union is Greece as well. If TR couldn't or cannot make it and join this union it's not our fault, therefore why should CY held hostage of TR's inaptness.
Afterall, TR violated and still violates the agreement.

Surely a community with so many problems should have been told to go away solve all your issues via UN and then come back sometime in the future, but we all know Greece threatened to hold the EU hostage if the did not admit the Greek Cypriot run "RoC"(some call this blackmail) and the rest is history.

The problem is not caused by CY but by TR that illegaly occupies a territory of a sovereign country. Therefore, why should EU reject CyR's application to enter EU?
CY after the turkish invasion, with a territory under occupation, 200.000 refugees etc managed to stand on her feet, prosper and fullfil all the criteria to become an EU member and our fellow Europeans accepted this tiny island as equal member in their family.
Afterall nobody complaint.

Viewpoint, do yo have an a la carte memory? The CY problem could easily be solved, even years ago, if TR was respecting UN resolutions, since you mention UN. It seems that TR has no respect for anything, laws, values, principles, human rights etc.

Now the EU is using a different yard stick and moving the goal posts at every match, add to this the hot potatoe Greek Cypriots with their own agenda and what do you have caos...

The EU is not using nothing defferent. EU is just protecting its values and principles towards the greedy unreasonable demands of TR EU wannabe. There would have been no chaos at all if the giant with the glass feet was far more sensible, was respecting international laws, human rights etc.

...I would not be suprised if Turkey does turn away from the EU, leaving the Greek Cypriots with no leverage and egg on their faces due to the back firing of the all so perfect for Greek Cypriots maximilist EU solution.

This is where our difference is. Gcs want a solution which will be based on EU values and laws, based on human rights, UN resolutions, ECHR decisions etc. Turks want a solution which violates all the above mentioned and these are excaclty the reasons why TR is afraid to face her fears - recognise CyR with all the consequences that would occur.
Would TR sell EU membership for a rock in the Mediterranean? If TR wants to play the game with her rules forced on EU, then I quess a big EU kick on TR's ass is more likely to happen. TR's accesion process will be put in the freezer.8)

Where will you guys be then???

You will find more and more of us at ECHR.

[andytandreou]

You are wrong. If Greek Cypriots had rejected the Annan Plan a llittle earlier, when their EU membership was not a fait acompli, you would have not been accepted in the EU. As Ferheugen said the Greek Cypriots cheated their way into the EU by giving the impression that they were prosolution but at the convenient moment they rejected a solution that was very similar in spirit to what Clerides had previously agreed to in order to enter the EU.
And only naive people would think that the blame is only on one side. Usually when there is a problem both sides share the blame. The current situation in Cyprus is the fault both of GC and TC, Greece and Turkey. If it was not for the past intransigence of President Denktash and the current intransigence of Mr Papadopolous the problem would have been long solved.

Yeah sure... Cyprus was accepted in the EU because we said we wanted the annan plan!! What about the 80,000 pages of EU law and an application pending since the 70's?

Also bg_turk I kindly ask you to stop sidelining the fact that the "NO" from the Greek Cypriots was a result of a referendum, do you understand the word referendum?

The submission of a proposed public measure to a direct popular vote.

Now i ask you: What does it say about you and the type of person you are if you believe we should be punished for voting "NO"?

It's a shame because you fail to see that the Anan plan WOULD NOT have been compatible with EU law and many people believe that Turkey would have used the Anan plan to bring the RoC accession process to a screeching halt only days before we entered the EU. Speculation aside, we honestly have no way of knowing Turkey's intentions until they materialise, however you must ask yourself why all this interest by Turkey to solve the Cyprus problem ONLY A FEW DAYS BEFORE CYPRUS ENTERED THE EU? If Turkey has known for decades that it would enter the EU and it also knew that Cyprus was a candidate then why all-of-a-sudden have an unprecedented desire for a solution?

The Anan plan was against EU laws. Plain and simple. Laws which the Cypriots have chosen to follow by allowing 450 million people from 25 countries to come and go as they please within our borders, yet it wouldn't have been possible to go to Northern Cyprus and have a life there. This is why the Anan plan had to be voted before Cyprus entered Europe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alexis]

If Greek Cypriots had rejected the Annan Plan a llittle earlier, when their EU membership was not a fait acompli, you would have not been accepted in the EU

That's just not the case. The EU never laid down any conditions regarding the Annan Plan's approval. This was for a reason: why should the GCs not be allowed into the EU when they have fulfilled all the criteria asked of them? Similar rhetoric is used now when talking about the TC community, and how they should not be deprived of the benefits of the EU when they indirectly voted to be a part of it. EU members would have been just as outraged if the RoC was not allowed into the EU due to the political situation as they are now that the TCs have through no fault of their own been deprived of membership. The difference is that the EU recognises the RoC and not the TRNC, so would have always been able to admit the RoC with no problems.
Condition may have been made to allow the Plan to go to referendum, although this was never made official. Verheugen was right to be dissappointed in Papadopoulos' actions (or lack of them), but should not have questioned the people's democratic choice, otherwise, why bother having a referendum, why not impose what others perceive to be a fair and balanced solution on the Cypriots?

You're not wrong, all the players here (GC, TC, Turkey, Greece) have all contributed to this mess, but the main emphasis is now on Turkey to make big changes with regards her attitude to Cyprus. The GCs must also make big changes to their attitude to TCs. I am hoping that both these things will happen during the course of Turkey's accession to the EU.