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Why is Cyprus Divided?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Jerry » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:21 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Lets test see and test your honesty,

1 Were were rulers of the island for over 350 years?
2 Did you sign a binding agreement?

3 In this agreement did it not give the TCs rights which include a veto?

4 Are we (Turkey plus the TCs) not as important as yourselves in finding a solution?

5 Has Turkey told the EU that if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC?

6 Is it not true that the world witnessed your refusal of the last comprehensive solution prepared by the UN?

Lets see if you have grip on reality.


Honestly!

1. No
2. I signed nothing
3. No
4. No
5. Dunno, has it?
6. No


Now how do you get through to ignorant people like Jerry?


Ignorant? 1878 minus 1571 equals 307.

Now tell me who is ignorant! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:39 pm

Is that all you got out of it? proves my point.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Jerry » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:54 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Is that all you got out of it? proves my point.


Knowing that you can only take in one truth at a time I only answered one question. I may expand others in due course.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Jerry wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Is that all you got out of it? proves my point.


Knowing that you can only take in one truth at a time I only answered one question. I may expand others in due course.


Dont bother appears you dont have anything of substance to contribute.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Piratis » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:02 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.


"fight back" is something that someone does when attacked. GCs did not attack the TCs, GCs were fighting against the British Colonialists. It is the TCs who choose to attack the GCs, and therefore it is the GCs who fought back.

And what makes you think that a minority of 18% has the right to use force in order to disallow what the vast majority of the native population wants? Cyprus was under Ottoman and British empires against the will of the Cypriot people and this didn't bother you, but Cyprus being part of a state that Cypriots themselves wanted to be was somehow something you had a "right" to disallow by means of brute force?

TCs, like every other minority in Cyprus, have the right to be equal Cypriots and a right to their human rights. If you had respected our rights then we would have also respected yours and we would have lived together in peace as we do with all the other minorities. Unfortunately you decided to attack us and use brute force in order to disallow to us to exercise our democratic rights and that is how the conflict started.


The fight back was against your movement to turn Cyprus into Greece, we opposed this as we did not want to live in Greece as we considered it our ultimate downfall and demise. We had to fight and our only way to stop you was to side with a force stronger that yours which happened to be the Brits follwed by the Turks....our survival was to stop you which we did.

You have to get to grips with the fact that we were owners and rulers of this island for over 350 years which demolishes your your stupid belief that we should accept minority rights just like any other in the world, name another minority which actually owned and ruled and has an international partnership like ours?


If we go by your logic no part of Greece should have ever been liberated and no Greek state should have ever been formed because the Ottomans created Muslim minorities in our territories. And because Ottomans ruled mainland Greece, Bulgaria etc etc, that means that the Muslim minorities in those territories should always have privileges and gains on the expense of the rest of the population. Obviously your logic is extremely flawed. If that was the case then why is Constantinople and the western part of Asia Minor part of Turkey? Was this done with the agreement of the Greek minority, which ruled those lands for far more time than you ruled Cyprus? And what are the special privileges and powers given to the Greek minority in Turkey? None!

Even minorities such as the Aboriginals of Australia or the Native Americans in the USA, who ruled their own lands for millennia, are not given anywhere near the kind of privileges and powers that you demand for your own minority, which was created merely a few centuries ago by means of a foreign occupation. The only thing that is similar to what you demand for your minority in Cyprus are the powers that the minority of Whites had in South Africa during Apartheid.

The Cypriot people had every right to democratically choose the destiny of their own island and the fact is that you collaborated with foreign Imperialists and you attacked us in order to deny to us our rights and have gains on our expense.

It is your crimes against us in the 50s and the unfair, undemocratic and racist terms that UK and Turkey imposed on Cyprus that set the stage for what happened in the 60s and 70s. Had Cyprus been allowed to unite with the rest of Greece then we would continue living with you in Cyprus as we did during Ottoman and British rule, but this time we would all be equal citizens of a state we democratically choose to belong and not subjects of some foreign empire that was imposed on us by force. This is what happened to Rhodes in 1948, which also has a minority like yours, and not a single nose broke there.

At the very least, after we proposed the alternative for an independent Cyprus, both the Turkish and British imperialists and your minority, should have accepted a real independence with a real democracy that most Cypriots could embrace. Instead of that we were given some pseudo independence with foreign made constitution, foreign judges of the supreme court, foreign "guarantors", foreign armies and foreign bases and on top of that an undemocratic and racist system that further divided the population. All these happened in a time that the Turkish Propagandists forget, choosing to start from 1963, as if there were no crimes, conflicts and huge injustices against the Cypriot people before that.


Where you go wrong is that you think that a square peg fits in a round hole. Our history is different from the other examples you provide, the constitution you despise was shaped in the face of your own diabolical track record of cohabiting with the TCs. You need to get to grips with the reality that if you wish to unite you have to share this island equally with the TCs as 2 equal partners otherwise as you always say wait for the balance of power to go your way but never forget that is not guaranteed and it could go even further the other way.

What you could do and what I have always recommended is that you work hard at winning over the TCs to a degree that they are strong enough to break away from Turkey who act as the TCs only umbilical cord. Your endeavors should be based on showing the TCs that united their lives would be far better than it is today, I have requested that GCs on this forum put forward concrete advantages and how it would effect the average Tcs life, but all we read are theoretical assumptions that are neither attractive nor would they add anything to our lives.


And what exactly was our "diabolical track record of cohabiting with the TCs" that shaped the constitution? The track record was 307 years of Ottoman oppression (as you always remind us) where the Turks murdered 10s of thousands of Cypriots and treated GCs as second category people, while just 80 years after the end of the Ottoman rule you again attacked us and started an intercommunal conflict in order to yet again "disallow" (as you admitted) the Cypriot people from democratically choosing the destiny of their own island. Therefore it is your record which is "diabolical" and not ours.

We have many other minorities in Cyprus and they are equal Cypriots without any problems. That is how it would be for the TCs if they acted as every other minority did. But TCs never accepted to be equal Cypriots like everybody else. They always demanded privileges and gains on the expense of every other Cypriot and this is what you continue to demand today. With such racist, unfair and undemocratic demands there is nothing we can do to satisfy you. If there will be a change that change should come from you, by realizing how wrong such kind of demands are. But personally I don't see this ever happening and therefore a change in the balance of power is the only thing that can solve the Cyprus Problem.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:59 pm

Piratis
And what exactly was our "diabolical track record of cohabiting with the TCs" that shaped the constitution? The track record was 307 years of Ottoman oppression (as you always remind us) where the Turks murdered 10s of thousands of Cypriots and treated GCs as second category people, while just 80 years after the end of the Ottoman rule you again attacked us and started an intercommunal conflict in order to yet again "disallow" (as you admitted) the Cypriot people from democratically choosing the destiny of their own island. Therefore it is your record which is "diabolical" and not ours.


Your so called "democratic right" to give away Cyprus was against our rights to live freely in our own country and not under Greek rule. On the one hand you oppose the Ottoman era but in the same hypocritical breath you demand what we saw as our demise and annihilation. If your fight was to build unity and one country where everyone was equal then you would have received 100% support from the TCs but your main goal was to force union with Greece against the wishes of a large part of your population of course this brought about great fear and a revolt, a fight for survival. Of course we could never oppose you alone and needed to side with a force that could defeat your enosis dream and save us, this brought into play the British and Turks, the rest is history. So your track record of unity and democratic application is tarnished and never to trusted therefore guarantees and security measures are vital to ensure you do not have a free hand to do as you wish which would be to the detriment of the TCs.

We have many other minorities in Cyprus and they are equal Cypriots without any problems. That is how it would be for the TCs if they acted as every other minority did. But TCs never accepted to be equal Cypriots like everybody else. They always demanded privileges and gains on the expense of every other Cypriot and this is what you continue to demand today. With such racist, unfair and undemocratic demands there is nothing we can do to satisfy you. If there will be a change that change should come from you, by realizing how wrong such kind of demands are. But personally I don't see this ever happening and therefore a change in the balance of power is the only thing that can solve the Cyprus Problem.


We are not just another minority and never will be, this is where you go wrong we are equal partners and its about time you realized this and trained your mind to understand that you have to consult us at every turn if you desire a solution. The referendum was proof of what i am stating, without our 50% weight you cannot agree a solution. that makes us equal partners as the last round of talks prove where we sit across the table to you.

With 37% of the island under our control and an agreement that gives us internationally rubber stamped rights to demand measure that will force you to behave and not give you a free hand to take control of the whole island declaring yourself as the sole owners and rulers of this island.

As for the power swing thing let me out it this way not in your or my life time mate.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Piratis » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:44 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Piratis
And what exactly was our "diabolical track record of cohabiting with the TCs" that shaped the constitution? The track record was 307 years of Ottoman oppression (as you always remind us) where the Turks murdered 10s of thousands of Cypriots and treated GCs as second category people, while just 80 years after the end of the Ottoman rule you again attacked us and started an intercommunal conflict in order to yet again "disallow" (as you admitted) the Cypriot people from democratically choosing the destiny of their own island. Therefore it is your record which is "diabolical" and not ours.


Your so called "democratic right" to give away Cyprus was against our rights to live freely in our own country and not under Greek rule. On the one hand you oppose the Ottoman era but in the same hypocritical breath you demand what we saw as our demise and annihilation. If your fight was to build unity and one country where everyone was equal then you would have received 100% support from the TCs but your main goal was to force union with Greece against the wishes of a large part of your population of course this brought about great fear and a revolt, a fight for survival. Of course we could never oppose you alone and needed to side with a force that could defeat your enosis dream and save us, this brought into play the British and Turks, the rest is history. So your track record of unity and democratic application is tarnished and never to trusted therefore guarantees and security measures are vital to ensure you do not have a free hand to do as you wish which would be to the detriment of the TCs.

So is this right not to live "under Greek rule" one that only your minority has? The Ottomans occupied mainland Greece and all Greek islands, and on many of them Muslim minorities were formed. Did this mean that each island and each Greek territory that had a Muslim minority could not be part of a united Greek state because supposedly it is a "right" of the Turks not to live "under Greek rule"? And what about Greeks having the right not to live under Turkish rule? Why is western Asia Minor part of Turkey then? No VP, you had no right to attack us, collaborate with foreign Imperialists and impose on Cyprus your terms by undemocratic means. This was yet another crime in the long list of crimes you committed and continue to commit against Cyprus.

And when have you been in favor of "one country where everyone was equal"? The answer is never. During Ottoman rule you had all the power to do that but instead you choose to have GCs as second category people with no say. And in the 50s it was us that proposed independence. Independence never even crossed your mind and when independence was agreed you made everything you could to ensure that we would not have "one country where everyone was equal", but instead a country where you would have privileges and gains on the expense of every other Cypriot, just like you did during Ottoman rule.


We have many other minorities in Cyprus and they are equal Cypriots without any problems. That is how it would be for the TCs if they acted as every other minority did. But TCs never accepted to be equal Cypriots like everybody else. They always demanded privileges and gains on the expense of every other Cypriot and this is what you continue to demand today. With such racist, unfair and undemocratic demands there is nothing we can do to satisfy you. If there will be a change that change should come from you, by realizing how wrong such kind of demands are. But personally I don't see this ever happening and therefore a change in the balance of power is the only thing that can solve the Cyprus Problem.


We are not just another minority and never will be, this is where you go wrong we are equal partners and its about time you realized this and trained your mind to understand that you have to consult us at every turn if you desire a solution. The referendum was proof of what i am stating, without our 50% weight you cannot agree a solution. that makes us equal partners as the last round of talks prove where we sit across the table to you.

With 37% of the island under our control and an agreement that gives us internationally rubber stamped rights to demand measure that will force you to behave and not give you a free hand to take control of the whole island declaring yourself as the sole owners and rulers of this island.

As for the power swing thing let me out it this way not in your or my life time mate.


The fact that you are 18% of the population and still you say "We are not just another minority" is the reason why we still have a Cyprus Problem. If minorities in other countries, backed by foreign Imperialists, said the same, then I guarantee you that those other countries would have conflicts and problems as well.

You are just another minority, albeit one that collaborates with a foreign country to cause harm to every other Cypriot. You can hope that the balance of power will not change during your life time, but in fact it could change. Even if it doesn't change in our lifetime it will change in some other time. We are on this island for thousands of years and many foreign invaders have come and gone.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:01 pm

So in view of the mindset you display on this forum its crystal clear that for us the current situation is far better than what you have to offer as we reject becoming just another minority under GC rule. We should fight to further the TRNC and ultimately gain recognition. The swing you talk about is never guaranteed and could swing the other way towards recognition of the TRNC...obviously you are willing to take this very serious risk just as you did in 1974. Good luck and long live the TRNC.
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby SKI-preo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:53 am

Why is Cyprus divided? Division is the first step towards total annexation of Cyprus, genocide and ethnic cleansing of every last Cypriot (what Turkey aims to do after plan B). :shock:
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Re: Why is Cyprus Divided?

Postby Viewpoint » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:38 am

We TCs have to see the real face of GCs like Piratis who represents the majority of GCs, they continue to see and believe that the whole of Cyprus as Greek island and we are just another minority. In the face to such bigotry we have to appreciate how lucky we are to be out of the clutches of such people, our position is far better than our forefathers who were forced to live in the poorest of conditions when "sharing" the island with so called democratic GCs whos alience was to turn Cyprus into Greece.

We need to work hard with Turkey to move the TRNC slowly but firmly move towards recognition, ending this GCs fiasco of wanting a solution but only on their terms. We need to support and fight for our right to have our own recognized country, this is the future.
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