Cyprus-Forum.com

[Me Ed]

Me Ed, you are right regarding the title but I'm not sure it can be edited now.

However if members do not want to discuss these issues with new members, what is the point of letting new members join?

They do want to discuss these issues with you.

However, when a new member makes outragous statements about "a genocide" when, even in the broadest definition of the word in the English language, never took place and then proceeds to make unsubstantiated claims about land ownership in Cyprus, then you should only expect to feel the full wrath of members on the forum.

[newgeneration]

Me Ed, I actually agreed with an existing forum member and to call this a civil conflict on a very early post, for the sake of discussion on this forum. However the British Gvt have referred to events of '63 & '64 as a genocide so I don't think it's such a far fetched crime to use that word. It's something that is hotly disputed, and in all fairness the Turks could take the same stance when GC's refer to Turkey's intervention as an illegal invasion.

My claims about land ownership are not unsubstantiated - I refer to the Cypriot Gvt census' of 1960 and 1974.

Other posters have said Land Reg from 197 says different, and I am interested to see these sources but as yet no one can direct me to them. I am not being obtuse, I have not been able to locate Land Reg records for myself and am interested in seeing them. By the same token I am interested in seeing the pre 1974 Land Reg records too.

Can you direct me to these by any chance?

[kimon07]

Dr Kuchuk, again writing in his daily Hatkin Sesi, confirms that from 1957 he was in touch with Riza Vuruskan, the Turkish officer who led and founded TMT; first to help the British and then to fight against the Greeks and the Turkish Cypriot radicals. Dr Kuchuk recalled, on Vuruskan’s death in 1979, that in the 1950s he used to go to Ankara very frequently. During one of these visits, the late Prime Minister of Turkey, Adnan Menderes, introduced Riza Vuruskan to me . . Later on I met him at the office of a lieutenant general and talked with him there. During our meeting it was decided that Vuruskan should come to Cyprus as ‘civilian adviser’. He arrived in Cyprus under an assumed name.
Mr Denktash has also given his reminiscences of that period, in which he admitted for the first time what had long been suspected – that he had been among the founders of TMT:
Everybody thought 1 was the leader but I was not. I was political adviser. Immediately after forming it I handed it over. It was a good mask because even the British and American intelligence thought I was the man who decided everything. I was not. The leaders were former army officers from Turkey. [The Times. 20 January 1978]"

"...5. Though the Turkish Cypriot terrorist group Volkan was founded in 1955, and carried out many lethal attacks on civilians, very few members of it were ever tried, let alone punished by the British crown.
In contrast, numerous supporters of the Greek Cypriot EOKA were hanged and hundreds more imprisoned. The British trained an exclusively Turkish mobile reserve to combat EOKA and employed many more Turks in the police and auxiliary forces. Members of these echelons were involved with Volkan, which later changed its name to the Turkish Defence Force or TMT. In a celebrated case in 1958, a Turk, Sergeant Tuna, was convicted of possessing bombs and ammunition by a British court. The good sergeant, unlike his Greek counterparts, was allowed bail in his own recognizance and left immediately for Turkey.".

"...It was only when Turks put on British uniforms to oppose a popular movement that they were shot at by Greeks. And even after that, it took some time before people resorted to the final obscenity of killing people just because they were Greek or Turkish".

http://truthaboutturks.wordpress.com/20 ... -enclaves/

See Also

TMT incited anti-Greek riots and tried to force Turkish Cypriot workers to establish separate trade unions.

Murder, arson and intimidation were the means that TMT used in order to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not live together. The victims were trade unionists, journalists and ordinary Turkish Cypriots who resisted TMT's call.

After the signing of the Zurich and London Agreements in 1959, which led to the independence of Cyprus, TMT continued its clandestine activities in the cause of dividing Cyprus, and was to continue until 1984 as Mr Ozgur was to
reveal.

In October, 1959, seven months after the signing of the agreements on Cyprus independence, the British mine-sweeper HMS Burmaston intercepted the Turkish
boat "Deniz" as it was attempting to deliver a shipment of arms to TMT in Cyprus.

Despite TMT terrorism, the mass of Greek and Turkish Cypriots citizens entered hopefully into the period of independence.

http://www.hellas.org/cyprus/tmt.htm

[newgeneration]

You cite 2 GC articles, written by GC's as reliable sources? Propoganda in the media is rife around the Cyprus problem, I cannot take them seriously.

And I am not surprised that it is claimed Denktash began the TMT. The British claim Makarios founded EOKA too. See the 'Britains small wars' website for the diaries of Grivas.

[kimon07]

You cite 2 GC articles, written by GC's as reliable sources? Propoganda in the media is rife around the Cyprus problem, I cannot take them seriously.

And I am not surprised that it is claimed Denktash began the TMT. The British claim Makarios founded EOKA too. See the 'Britains small wars' website for the diaries of Grivas.

Firstly I correct my first link above.
http://truthaboutturks.wordpress.com/20 ... -enclaves/

Secondly I cite quotes from Turkish Cypriots and Foreign analysts etc. The point is not where I found the quotes but who they belong to. I also draw your attention that in your thread about Why was Cyprus divided I have cited the TC newspaper AFRICA and the TC journalist Sener Levent.

Thirdly, who ever said that we Greek Cypriots deny that Makarios agreed to the formation of the EOKA and helped it?

[newgeneration]

Kimon07, to discuss the points you make, can you present something specific rather than links?

I'm not sure what you're trying to put across

[kimon07]

Kimon07, to discuss the points you make, can you present something specific rather than links?

I'm not sure what you're trying to put across

You closed your initial post with the question: "Why did the TC's have to flee their homes"?

I think my answer, through my posts and links is clear.

1. Because TMT forced them to.

Additionally, I am putting across that:
2. There was never EOKA terrorism against TC civilians. EOKA was only retaliating against TNMT attacks.
3. There were never mass cold blooded killings of TCs by GCs. There were only casualties of mainly combatant TCs, caused during battles which were erupting, always after TMT provocations and attempts to expand their control on territories or strategic positions in the RoC (like in the cases of Kokkina and Kofinou).
4. On the contrary, there were unprovoked attacks of the TMT and murders of unarmed GC civilians, burnings of Greek Churches and schools etc.

Therefore, title of the topic you opened should read: "EOKA and the TMT terrorism from the '50s till today"

[newgeneration]

Ok, and why would the TMT do that? All in order to pretend to the world TC's were being killed so they could justify Turkey coming in? .... Come on.

[kurupetos]

Ok, and why would the TMT do that? All in order to pretend to the world TC's were being killed so they could justify Turkey coming in? .... Come on.

If you know the answers, why ask questions?

[newgeneration]

That theory is so far fetched. Where is the evidence of that? Can you point to some sources