Cyprus-Forum.com

[Me Ed]

You really have to stop kidding yourselves that it is anybody other than RoC which is imposing the embargoes. I only ask one question, if it is Turkey that invaded and it is Turkey that keeps her troops in Cyprus then why is it that it is the Turkish Cypriots that are facing Embargoes and not Turkey?

Surely Turkey should be made to pay?

You wanted to wipe out the Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus in 1960 and yet you may well achieve that in the near future. Good luck to you with your dealings with the Turks. I hope they become better neighbours to you than the Turkish Cypriots.

Because Turkey imported Turks from the mainland to occupy ethnically cleansed property and big Turkish business interests are exploiting ethnically cleansed property too.

If the embargoes are lifted, it's unlikely the TCs would actually gain anything out of it, but Turks and Turkish business interests would big time.

The UN acknowledges this and co-operates with the RoC in the application of these embargoes.

You're telling us this is all for our benefit? In their infinite wisdom they have decided the best way to help TC's is to impose embargo's on them. Thats genius, why didn't we see this all this rime? How silly of us?

Not quite, they are there to prevent private Turkish citizens and business fully exploiting ethnically cleansed property.

One has to ask the question that in the present context, does Turkey in 2012 maintain huge occupation force to protect TCs, or are they really there to protect Turkish business interests and priviate Turkish citizens?

[MR-from-NG]

You really have to stop kidding yourselves that it is anybody other than RoC which is imposing the embargoes. I only ask one question, if it is Turkey that invaded and it is Turkey that keeps her troops in Cyprus then why is it that it is the Turkish Cypriots that are facing Embargoes and not Turkey?

Surely Turkey should be made to pay?

You wanted to wipe out the Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus in 1960 and yet you may well achieve that in the near future. Good luck to you with your dealings with the Turks. I hope they become better neighbours to you than the Turkish Cypriots.

Because Turkey imported Turks from the mainland to occupy ethnically cleansed property and big Turkish business interests are exploiting ethnically cleansed property too.

If the embargoes are lifted, it's unlikely the TCs would actually gain anything out of it, but Turks and Turkish business interests would big time.

The UN acknowledges this and co-operates with the RoC in the application of these embargoes.

You're telling us this is all for our benefit? In their infinite wisdom they have decided the best way to help TC's is to impose embargo's on them. Thats genius, why didn't we see this all this rime? How silly of us?

Not quite, they are there to prevent private Turkish citizens and business fully exploiting ethnically cleansed property.

One has to ask the question that in the present context, does Turkey in 2012 maintain huge occupation force to protect TCs, or are they really there to protect Turkish business interests and priviate Turkish citizens?

Lordo made a perfectly reasonable point here. If as the GC's claim we are Cypriots just like them and their grievance is with Turkey then it would make perfect sense for the RoC to intensify its pressures on Turkey ie Turkeys EU accession etc and ease the embargoes on the TC's. You never know, easing the embargoes on the TC's and showing a bit of good faith may work wonders for GC & TC relations.

[Me Ed]

You really have to stop kidding yourselves that it is anybody other than RoC which is imposing the embargoes. I only ask one question, if it is Turkey that invaded and it is Turkey that keeps her troops in Cyprus then why is it that it is the Turkish Cypriots that are facing Embargoes and not Turkey?

Surely Turkey should be made to pay?

You wanted to wipe out the Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus in 1960 and yet you may well achieve that in the near future. Good luck to you with your dealings with the Turks. I hope they become better neighbours to you than the Turkish Cypriots.

Because Turkey imported Turks from the mainland to occupy ethnically cleansed property and big Turkish business interests are exploiting ethnically cleansed property too.

If the embargoes are lifted, it's unlikely the TCs would actually gain anything out of it, but Turks and Turkish business interests would big time.

The UN acknowledges this and co-operates with the RoC in the application of these embargoes.

You're telling us this is all for our benefit? In their infinite wisdom they have decided the best way to help TC's is to impose embargo's on them. Thats genius, why didn't we see this all this rime? How silly of us?

Not quite, they are there to prevent private Turkish citizens and business fully exploiting ethnically cleansed property.

One has to ask the question that in the present context, does Turkey in 2012 maintain huge occupation force to protect TCs, or are they really there to protect Turkish business interests and priviate Turkish citizens?

Lordo made a perfectly reasonable point here. If as the GC's claim we are Cypriots just like them and their grievance is with Turkey then it would make perfect sense for the RoC to intensify its pressures on Turkey ie Turkeys EU accession etc and ease the embargoes on the TC's. You never know, easing the embargoes on the TC's and showing a bit of good faith may work wonders for GC & TC relations.

MR point taken but Turkey has unfortunately made it impossible to lift the embargoes in the occupied areas with the importation of Turkish citizens and big Turkish business interests who will now be the main beneficiaries.

To be fair, the RoC has done what it can in it's power for the TCs with the opening of the crossings, the issuing of EU passports and the provision of medical treatment.

Whilst there are TCs that have welcomed and taken advantage of these services, (which is their right to do), unfortunately there are still TCs that treat this with cynicism.

[MR-from-NG]

MR point taken but Turkey has unfortunately made it impossible to lift the embargoes in the occupied areas with the importation of Turkish citizens and big Turkish business interests who will now be the main beneficiaries.

To be fair, the RoC has done what it can in it's power for the TCs with the opening of the crossings, the issuing of EU passports and the provision of medical treatment.

Whilst there are TCs that have welcomed and taken advantage of these services, (which is their right to do), unfortunately there are still TCs that treat this with cynicism.[/quote]

Ed, I think we all know the RoC did only what it is obliged to do, and even then there are thousands of TC's that appreciate this. As you point out, the RoC is far from happy with the importation of TC's and this is somewhat holding them back from helping the TC's more. Are you not aware that the TC's are just as disappointed if not more with these undesirables being imported into our beautiful country? Doesn't this fact alone make us teammates? Shouldn't the GC's embrace us and encourage us to feel we are all Cypriots and we need to do the best for our country. As things are at the moment the divide is getting bigger and wider and the RoC has to address so many issues with regards to the TC population of the island and as far as I can see its doing just the opposite, it is instead forcing us to hang onto Turkey with such a grip that it will one day be impossible to let go.

I have had many arguments with many GC's on this forum and some may even think of me as THE ENEMY but the bottom line is I want ALL the settlers out of Cyprus, I want the TA out of Cyprus (when circumstances allow), I want the selling and building on GC property to stop and those GC's that have lost their properties compensated. I'm not alone with this ideal, vast majority of TC's feel the same.

[Viewpoint]

MR point taken but Turkey has unfortunately made it impossible to lift the embargoes in the occupied areas with the importation of Turkish citizens and big Turkish business interests who will now be the main beneficiaries.

To be fair, the RoC has done what it can in it's power for the TCs with the opening of the crossings, the issuing of EU passports and the provision of medical treatment.

Whilst there are TCs that have welcomed and taken advantage of these services, (which is their right to do), unfortunately there are still TCs that treat this with cynicism.

Ed, I think we all know the RoC did only what it is obliged to do, and even then there are thousands of TC's that appreciate this. As you point out, the RoC is far from happy with the importation of TC's and this is somewhat holding them back from helping the TC's more. Are you not aware that the TC's are just as disappointed if not more with these undesirables being imported into our beautiful country? Doesn't this fact alone make us teammates? Shouldn't the GC's embrace us and encourage us to feel we are all Cypriots and we need to do the best for our country. As things are at the moment the divide is getting bigger and wider and the RoC has to address so many issues with regards to the TC population of the island and as far as I can see its doing just the opposite, it is instead forcing us to hang onto Turkey with such a grip that it will one day be impossible to let go.

I have had many arguments with many GC's on this forum and some may even think of me as THE ENEMY but the bottom line is I want ALL the settlers out of Cyprus, I want the TA out of Cyprus (when circumstances allow), I want the selling and building on GC property to stop and those GC's that have lost their properties compensated. I'm not alone with this ideal, vast majority of TC's feel the same.[/quote]

I second what you are saying MR but as you know the GC stance and mentality will never allow for what you are looking for, the divide is much wider today even after the opening of the borders that it has ever been. The momentum and desire for a solution on both side is non exsıstent and the TCs grow closer and closer to Turkey everyday as they are seen as not only their saviour but their one and only reliable allie.

[Maximus]

I have had many arguments with many GC's on this forum and some may even think of me as THE ENEMY but the bottom line is I want ALL the settlers out of Cyprus, I want the TA out of Cyprus (when circumstances allow), I want the selling and building on GC property to stop and those GC's that have lost their properties compensated. I'm not alone with this ideal, vast majority of TC's feel the same.

This is the objective and it will happen.

[Me Ed]

MR point taken but Turkey has unfortunately made it impossible to lift the embargoes in the occupied areas with the importation of Turkish citizens and big Turkish business interests who will now be the main beneficiaries.

To be fair, the RoC has done what it can in it's power for the TCs with the opening of the crossings, the issuing of EU passports and the provision of medical treatment.

Whilst there are TCs that have welcomed and taken advantage of these services, (which is their right to do), unfortunately there are still TCs that treat this with cynicism.

Ed, I think we all know the RoC did only what it is obliged to do, and even then there are thousands of TC's that appreciate this. As you point out, the RoC is far from happy with the importation of TC's and this is somewhat holding them back from helping the TC's more. Are you not aware that the TC's are just as disappointed if not more with these undesirables being imported into our beautiful country? Doesn't this fact alone make us teammates? Shouldn't the GC's embrace us and encourage us to feel we are all Cypriots and we need to do the best for our country. As things are at the moment the divide is getting bigger and wider and the RoC has to address so many issues with regards to the TC population of the island and as far as I can see its doing just the opposite, it is instead forcing us to hang onto Turkey with such a grip that it will one day be impossible to let go.

I have had many arguments with many GC's on this forum and some may even think of me as THE ENEMY but the bottom line is I want ALL the settlers out of Cyprus, I want the TA out of Cyprus (when circumstances allow), I want the selling and building on GC property to stop and those GC's that have lost their properties compensated. I'm not alone with this ideal, vast majority of TC's feel the same.

I second what you are saying MR but as you know the GC stance and mentality will never allow for what you are looking for, the divide is much wider today even after the opening of the borders that it has ever been. The momentum and desire for a solution on both side is non exsıstent and the TCs grow closer and closer to Turkey everyday as they are seen as not only their saviour but their one and only reliable allie.

MR, I too second your comments and fully aware of the general feeling of TCs towards the settlers.

The RoC does what it can in the face of Turkish policy in the north, but this should be a two way relationship and not much has been forthcoming from the TC side.

I also dissagree with VPs analysis, because since the opening of the ceasefire line:

1. TCs and GCs have crossed the ceasefire,apart from the odd very minor issues, this has worked out well and without major incident.

2. TCs and GCs are now communicating directly, than rather through the leadership.

3. There have been far more bicommunal events.

4. Over the past few years, there has been an observable increase in demonstrations against the occupation regime with public displays of the flag of the republic.

[bill cobbett]

MR point taken but Turkey has unfortunately made it impossible to lift the embargoes in the occupied areas with the importation of Turkish citizens and big Turkish business interests who will now be the main beneficiaries.

To be fair, the RoC has done what it can in it's power for the TCs with the opening of the crossings, the issuing of EU passports and the provision of medical treatment.

Whilst there are TCs that have welcomed and taken advantage of these services, (which is their right to do), unfortunately there are still TCs that treat this with cynicism.

Ed, I think we all know the RoC did only what it is obliged to do, and even then there are thousands of TC's that appreciate this. As you point out, the RoC is far from happy with the importation of TC's and this is somewhat holding them back from helping the TC's more. Are you not aware that the TC's are just as disappointed if not more with these undesirables being imported into our beautiful country? Doesn't this fact alone make us teammates? Shouldn't the GC's embrace us and encourage us to feel we are all Cypriots and we need to do the best for our country. As things are at the moment the divide is getting bigger and wider and the RoC has to address so many issues with regards to the TC population of the island and as far as I can see its doing just the opposite, it is instead forcing us to hang onto Turkey with such a grip that it will one day be impossible to let go.

I have had many arguments with many GC's on this forum and some may even think of me as THE ENEMY but the bottom line is I want ALL the settlers out of Cyprus, I want the TA out of Cyprus (when circumstances allow), I want the selling and building on GC property to stop and those GC's that have lost their properties compensated. I'm not alone with this ideal, vast majority of TC's feel the same.

I second what you are saying MR but as you know the GC stance and mentality will never allow for what you are looking for, the divide is much wider today even after the opening of the borders that it has ever been. The momentum and desire for a solution on both side is non exsıstent and the TCs grow closer and closer to Turkey everyday as they are seen as not only their saviour but their one and only reliable allie.

MR, I too second your comments and fully aware of the general feeling of TCs towards the settlers.

The RoC does what it can in the face of Turkish policy in the north, but this should be a two way relationship and not much has been forthcoming from the TC side.

I also dissagree with VPs analysis, because since the opening of the ceasefire line:

1. TCs and GCs have crossed the ceasefire,apart from the odd very minor issues, this has worked out well and without major incident.

2. TCs and GCs are now communicating directly, than rather through the leadership.

3. There have been far more bicommunal events.

4. Over the past few years, there has been an observable increase in demonstrations against the occupation regime with public displays of the flag of the republic.

Yes, would largely go along with the last three posters on this. By and large some encouraging words and would also urge all to take up the habit of differentiating between the CYs of the Occupied Areas and the Settler's Regime cos, amongst other reasons, there is a good deal of productive common ground there.

Also particularly encouraging in the past year or so is that more of the younger generations are coming together in the unofficial meets referred to above and finding that they have a great deal in common which bodes well for the future.

[kimon07]

You really have to stop kidding yourselves that it is anybody other than RoC which is imposing the embargoes. I only ask one question, if it is Turkey that invaded and it is Turkey that keeps her troops in Cyprus then why is it that it is the Turkish Cypriots that are facing Embargoes and not Turkey?

Surely Turkey should be made to pay?

You wanted to wipe out the Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus in 1960 and yet you may well achieve that in the near future. Good luck to you with your dealings with the Turks. I hope they become better neighbours to you than the Turkish Cypriots.

Because Turkey imported Turks from the mainland to occupy ethnically cleansed property and big Turkish business interests are exploiting ethnically cleansed property too.

If the embargoes are lifted, it's unlikely the TCs would actually gain anything out of it, but Turks and Turkish business interests would big time.

The UN acknowledges this and co-operates with the RoC in the application of these embargoes.

You're telling us this is all for our benefit? In their infinite wisdom they have decided the best way to help TC's is to impose embargo's on them. Thats genius, why didn't we see this all this rime? How silly of us?

Not quite, they are there to prevent private Turkish citizens and business fully exploiting ethnically cleansed property.

One has to ask the question that in the present context, does Turkey in 2012 maintain huge occupation force to protect TCs, or are they really there to protect Turkish business interests and priviate Turkish citizens?

Lordo made a perfectly reasonable point here. If as the GC's claim we are Cypriots just like them and their grievance is with Turkey then it would make perfect sense for the RoC to intensify its pressures on Turkey ie Turkeys EU accession etc and ease the embargoes on the TC's. You never know, easing the embargoes on the TC's and showing a bit of good faith may work wonders for GC & TC relations.

Mr. I think we must clarify a few sensitive points here.

The embargo is not imposed by the RoC but by the international community and international organizations, pursuant to UN resolutions, DUE to the illegal occupation of the North by Turkey.

If the RoC requests or permits the international community etc to lift the embargoes, Turkey and it's puppets in the North will surely present this as recognition by the RoC, "de jure" or "de facto" of the legitimacy of the TC regime and it's upgrading to a legitimate and sovereign state.

I believe that the RoC made a very realistic proposal in relation to the easing of the embargo: To permit all sorts of deals, activities and financing of the North but ONLY through the legitimate authorities of the RoC and ONLY through "corridors" which are under the control of the RoC. What is so wrong with that? Such a practice will safeguard also that whatever benefits derive from such transactions and exchanges will be to the benefit of the TC community ONLY and it will not end up yielding profits for Turkey and Turkish businesses etc.

On the other hand, shouldn't the Turkish Cypriots be more active in demanding their freedom? I don't think demonstrations alone will bring any result. Why not form committees of representatives who would appeal to the various international and European fora demanding the withdrawal of the Turkish army and the Turkish settlers etc?

[Kikapu]

Lordo made a perfectly reasonable point here. If as the GC's claim we are Cypriots just like them and their grievance is with Turkey then it would make perfect sense for the RoC to intensify its pressures on Turkey ie Turkeys EU accession etc and ease the embargoes on the TC's. You never know, easing the embargoes on the TC's and showing a bit of good faith may work wonders for GC & TC relations.

MR-from-NG, just exactly how are the TCs embargoed by the RoC? What is it that if the TCs leadership or the TCs themselves wanted to do cannot do, because of the RoC? Please do not even bring up the old tired so called "Direct Flights" argument, because that too is available to the TCs in Cyprus if they wished to use it in the RoC. Instead they choose to use Illegal Flights provided by Turkey. The embargoes are against the "trnc", which was created by Turkey and not against the TCs, so yes, Turkey is punished through the "trnc" for the embargoes it faces, along with all the Illegal Aliens Turkey brought to the north. Now, if any TCs in the north are supportive of Turkey's occupation of the north of our country, and many are, then in effect, they are willing to accept being embargoed, therefore they have no case for argument, and all those TCs who do not support the occupation of our country by Turkey, and many don't, can avoid all embargoes if they wished to do so. If you are saying that TCs living in the occupied areas should have all the benefits as other Cypriots does living in the south, then the RoC helping those TCs in the north would mean helping Turkey through the "trnc" and all the Illegal Aliens, which would encourage more Illegal Aliens coming to the north to outnumber the TCs even more. Where is the logic in that? If you really support for the Illegal Aliens and the TA to leave Cyprus, making life easy for them to live in the north (not that they have any difficulty now), defeats your whole argument in wanting them leaving Cyprus at all by lifting any embargoes just to help the remaining True TCs in the north.