Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Hi folks. It's been a long time since I've written to this forum. I was busy with my masters courses but the programme has ended so I had enough time to think about what I can contribute to the Cyprus settlement debate. First of all I shall say I am against any plans imposed on us by UN or EU. This settlement should be realised by both sides through bargaining. We all know that we cannot have what we all want. Concession is the key word in this gradual settlement propsal.

1- The first thing would be done is halting the ongoing constructions on Greek Cypriot properties in North. At the same time, "recognition of Greek Cypriot government as the only legitimate govt of Cyprus" should not be an obstacle to Turkey's EU accession process.

2- A bicommunal commission on properties shall be established under the guidance of UN. This commission shall discuss the procedure to be followed regarding the abandoned properties both in north and south.

3- TRNC shall be transformed into an interm administration without establishing any formal diplomatic relations with other countries, yet shall become something less than Palestinian authority. (in this case the only diplomatic representative of this admin. could be Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce). Republic of Cyprus shall keep its position as it was before.

4- A gradual integration in the economic area. I shall say, the trade shall be monitored by a common agency. I am not quite knowledged in economics, so I defer this to the forum users who can contribute to the economic aspect of the settlement proposal

5- After having economic integration - which by the way may take a couple of years to realise - a step for political integration shall be taken. As I said, recognition of TRNC as Turkish Cypriot interm administration will ease the political integration, since the institutions in North do matter. The share within the government etc shall be discussed.

Some extra thoughts I would like to stress:
- Turkish Cypriots will not demand "equality" in each and every aspect of the united republic. However, creating an artificial "Cypriotness" identity, will only benefit the majority... Having two communities and sharing the power amongst them is NOT against democracy. Belgium and Switzerland are the best examples of this. I suggest a federal solution, but the name should not matter. I am also against any permanent derrogations on the right to settle, since this would be against the whole concept of "unification". There should be 3-4 year old restrictions in order not to cause an unrest within the Turkish Cypriot community.

As I said, this is not a plan, so there are no "certain provisions" that everyone should obey. Any reflections?

[Piratis]

1- The first thing would be done is halting the ongoing constructions on Greek Cypriot properties in North. At the same time, "recognition of Greek Cypriot government as the only legitimate govt of Cyprus" should not be an obstacle to Turkey's EU accession process.

Turkey's EU accession process and our power to terminate it is our strongest "weapon" right now. Giving up this weapon simply because Turkey and TCs will stop one of the many illegal things they do against us is not a good bargain for us.

2- A bicommunal commission on properties shall be established under the guidance of UN. This commission shall discuss the procedure to be followed regarding the abandoned properties both in north and south.

What will be the basis of this discussion? International laws and human rights, or something else?

3- TRNC shall be transformed into an interm administration without establishing any formal diplomatic relations with other countries, yet shall become something less than Palestinian authority. (in this case the only diplomatic representative of this admin. could be Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce). Republic of Cyprus shall keep its position as it was before.

TCs can have a representation by some body that will be elected only by the Turkish Cypriots (not settlers) and will represent the TC community. However TCs can not represent a geographical part of Cyprus since no such part belongs to them exclusively to be able to represent it.

If we recognize that some TC body has authority over northern Cyprus then what is to stop this body for declaring this part independent? RoC has sovereignty over the whole island and will not give this away.

4- A gradual integration in the economic area.

Ok, if it is done in way to help TCs but not to help in the recognition of any second entity with authority over any part of Cyprus except from RoC.

5- After having economic integration - which by the way may take a couple of years to realise - a step for political integration shall be taken. As I said, recognition of TRNC as Turkish Cypriot interm administration will ease the political integration, since the institutions in North do matter. The share within the government etc shall be discussed.

I disagree with this for the reasons I said above. There is nothing "interim". Whatever exists that doesn't allow RoC to apply its sovereignty over the whole island is nothing more than illegal.

[garbitsch]

If you don't give you do not take Piratis...

[Piratis]

If you don't give you do not take Piratis...

In 1960 we made a compromise that was actually in favor of TCs. Now you want us to make additional compromises on top of those compromisses.

You think that we should only give and you should only take?

[garbitsch]

Piratis, I will not turn this topic into "you did this we did that" type of useless discussion... There is a new condition here. Nothing will be same anymore...

[garbitsch]

I clearly said the interim Turkish Cypriot administration shall not establish diplomatic relations with other countries...There is no mention of "representing a geographic part of Cyprus". Yet if there will be a federation, then the T.Cs will represent a part of Cyprus... This is something your side claims to be supporting too...

[Piratis]

There is a new condition here. Nothing will be same anymore

The same no. Better for you worst for us, "no" also. Reminds you of anything? If you want to gain on our loss you have to do it without our help, and then of course you have to wait for the time that we will take back what belongs to us without your help.

In 1960 we made an agreement that was a compromise. If you want to change that then I am ready to listen to what from that agreement you are willing to give up in order to take something more in return. If what you want to take more does not worth more for us than what you will give up in return then we will have a new agreement.

[cypezokyli]

hey garbitch
its always nice to hear some sugestions.
its nice that people do give it a thought.
so:

Code: Select all

1- The first thing would be done is halting the ongoing constructions on Greek Cypriot properties in North. At the same time, "recognition of Greek Cypriot government as the only legitimate govt of Cyprus" should not be an obstacle to Turkey's EU accession process

.
these are two different things.
with the first part i agree.
with the second...well. the european prospect of turkey is for the gc the only chance they have. i dont know any more how strong it is, but it is not that easy to give it up. think about it for a minute. what , other than interest or loosing sth, will bring the two to the negotiating table? the UN?
besides, the recognition of RoC does not mean solution , let aside that the whole thing can take for ages.

2- A bicommunal commission on properties shall be established under the guidance of UN. This commission shall discuss the procedure to be followed regarding the abandoned properties both in north and south.

agree.

3- TRNC shall be transformed into an interm administration without establishing any formal diplomatic relations with other countries, yet shall become something less than Palestinian authority. (in this case the only diplomatic representative of this admin. could be Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce). Republic of Cyprus shall keep its position as it was before.

the point of this is what?
that there exist an istitution in the north that runs everything is not under dispute.
that this is not recognised, either.
what is this going to offer?


4

- A gradual integration in the economic area. I shall say, the trade shall be monitored by a common agency. I am not quite knowledged in economics, so I defer this to the forum users who can contribute to the economic aspect of the settlement proposal

ok

5- After having economic integration - which by the way may take a couple of years to realise - a step for political integration shall be taken. As I said, recognition of TRNC as Turkish Cypriot interm administration will ease the political integration, since the institutions in North do matter. The share within the government etc shall be discussed.

just like it was discussed in another thread.
the land problem and any kind of recognition appear out of question unless the complete problem is solved.

i have to say i like the additional points better
-

Turkish Cypriots will not demand "equality" in each and every aspect of the united republic. However, creating an artificial "Cypriotness" identity, will only benefit the majority... Having two communities and sharing the power amongst them is NOT against democracy. Belgium and Switzerland are the best examples of this. I suggest a federal solution, but the name should not matter. I am also against any permanent derrogations on the right to settle, since this would be against the whole concept of "unification". There should be 3-4 year old restrictions in order not to cause an unrest within the Turkish Cypriot community.

agree with the whole thing.
even though creating cypriotness, even if artificial is not necesarily bad.
it could even help.
ask the swiss.


i would be more supporting vp proposals where the two community leaders, start meeting seriously to solve the problem.

[garbitsch]

Hi cypezokyli, thank's for the comments. This proposal was written in a very short time, so there are errors that are done without thinking well.

First of all, as I said this is not a plan so it is open for discussion. And you say it is difficult for the EU to abandon it's demand for the recognition of RoC by Turkey. However, there are things that bother me in this aspect. Wasn't it the Greek side along side with Turkish side that agreed on a bizonal bicommunal federation in 1970s, accepting that returning to 1960 agreement is not something they do want too. Thus it is a contradiction that they force us to accept the existence of RoC... Also there are already many problems arose from Turkey's customs union agreement with the EU. That is to mean, Turkish Cypriot producers cannot even export goods to Turkey because according to this treaty only recognised countries can trade with each other. What if Turkey recognises Republic of Cyprus, this will mean that Turkey denounces its recognition of TRNC. Therefore, any political relationship between Turkey and TRNC will get problematic. And now that the Greek Cypriot side keeps blocking any negotiation attempts with T.Cs in order to benefit the current situation, i.e. using the division of Cyprus as a weapon to make Turkey come in terms. What will ever happen to Turkish Cypriots?? Don't tell us to come back to RoC which you had also accepted that it will not be a solution. For that purpose, I am against any kind of diplomatic relationship between Turkey and RoC which will give harm to Turkish Cypriots... I am sure AKP is not willing the same.

Secondly, please forgive me for using a vague language. I said I suggest establishing an interim Turkish Cypriot administration (without any land or sovereignty demand) which will have diplomatic relationship with the authorities in Greek side, but this administration should not be recognised as an independent state. This was my point.

Thirdly, of course there will be one nationality which will be "Cypriot". However, some forum users suggested to abandon the "Turkish" or "Greek" identities and use only "Cypriotness". This we all know a game planned to maximise the gains of the majority and minimise that of the minority (we all know that nobody will forget that they are either Greek or Turkish, and no one will work for the benefit of the other). There can be share of power on the basis of ethnic identity, which is both DEMOCRATIC and has been practiced by Switzerland, Belgium and on the paper in RoC.

Piratis:
You are the same old man who uses harsh language and never think that the OTHER is not evil... Either you accept it or not, your side has agreed on a bicommunal and bizonal federation by declaring that returning to 1960 is not an ideal way for unification... What so called compromise did you make in 1960?? Was Cyprus yours??? You are talking as if you are the owner of Cyprus and made a compromise by giving 30% to 18%. Is that your bloody compromise?? We were far more independent under the British rule, at least we minded our own business and you did yours. There were nothing common. And since you had always thought that Cyprus was rightfully yours and you made a compromise reluctantly. With this mentality you tried to destroy every thing by first denouncing these so called compromises JUST THREE YEARS AFTER THE INDEPENDENCE. A new solution should not be reincarnation of the already dead 1960 republic. You made your compromises and you had taken them back. End of the story... Even though we decided to join back the 1960 republic, you will demand the reduction of 30% power share, won't you? So where is your lovely compromises?

[Piratis]

You are the same old man who uses harsh language and never think that the OTHER is not evil

First I am not old, and second I don't care how nice or not nice the "OTHER" is. What I care about is that I live in a democratic country were no racist discriminations exist and human rights are protected.

Either you accept it or not, your side has agreed on a bicommunal and bizonal federation by declaring that returning to 1960 is not an ideal way for unification

We never declared such things and the only thing we agreed was the agreements of 1960. For any other agreement to be official it has to pass from a referendum and be approved.

What so called compromise did you make in 1960??

We accepted what some foreigners imposed to us instead of having a referendum so the people of this island can decide the future. We accepted that an 18% could have veto powers, 30% governmental positions etc. What compromise did you make? That you didn't make as your slaves again, or that you postponed the ethnic cleansing against us? In 1960 we made far more compromises than you did and now you are asking for more!!

With this mentality you tried to destroy every thing by first denouncing these so called compromises JUST THREE YEARS AFTER THE INDEPENDENCE.

This never happened. I guess you saw it in your dream. What happened in 1963 were proposals that in fact were very fair ones. Why should the 18% of TCs have the 30% of government jobs for example?

A new solution should not be reincarnation of the already dead 1960 republic.

Who are dead are the 6000 you killed with your invasion. The RoC you didn't manage to kill despite your enormous efforts.

Even though we decided to join back the 1960 republic, you will demand the reduction of 30% power share, won't you? So where is your lovely compromises?

What 30% power share are you talking about? You mean the 30% governmental positions? Why should the 18% of TCs keep 30% of governmental positions???