Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Also don't forget that being a citizen of RoC doesn't entail only rights, but responsibilities as well. TCs might not take all their rights from RoC but their responsibilities are also temporarily waved. Do TCs pay taxes to RoC? Do the serve 2 years in the army of RoC? If RoC was going to treat TCs as they treat GCs NOW, then the great majority of TCs would be guilty for illegalities and crimes such as treason.

Paying taxes? The T.Cs do not get their salaries from RoC. They get them from TRNC, so they pay their taxes to TRNC. They do not serve 2 years in the army, because your army is only compromised of Greek Cypriots (it is not the bicommunal army founded in 1960, but it is the army founded in 1964 by Greek Cypriots - that's what a Greek Cypriot official told).

So if I was to settle in south and start working there by paying my taxes, would I still be allowed to enjoy my property?

Personally I wouldn't have a problem if RoC treated TCs in the exact same way as GCs today. However it is for the benefit of most TCs if RoC "forgets" about their illegalities and crimes even if that means it forgets some of their rights as well. (I said "most" because not all TCs are guilty for illegalities. Unfortunately those are only a small minority)

Of course I accept that some TCs are against the occupation of our country from Turkey and those people are victims like us. However they are victims of the Turkish occupation since thats what is causing the abnormal situation in Cyprus and not RoC.

You are putting the blame on the Turkish Cypriot Community, who had no option but to save their arses from the Sampson administration and naturally saw Turkey as their saviors and moved to North to become free from G.C oppression. The reason why this "illegality" is not because T.Cs support them but it is because neither sides could come to terms with each other.

The problem of both TCs and GCs is going to be solved simultaneously. As long as we have a problem they will have a problem too and Turkey is going to have a problem also. If the Cyprus problem becames a problem only for GCs, then what would be the motive of TCs and Turkey to solve it??

Exactly. Forgive me for saying that, but you are contradicting with yourself. In the previous paragraph you blamed T.Cs for supporting the "illegalities", but in the following paragraph you said both sides will have a problem unless it is solved, which is more feasable than the former.

[Piratis]

Paying taxes? The T.Cs do not get their salaries from RoC.

Income tax is only a small part of the taxes somebody has to pay, and even that you have to pay it regardless who your employer is.

They do not serve 2 years in the army, because your army is only compromised of Greek Cypriots

The could to 2 year service even if it was not in the army.

You are putting the blame on the Turkish Cypriot Community, who had no option but to save their arses from the Sampson administration and naturally saw Turkey as their saviors and moved to North to become free from G.C oppression. The reason why this "illegality" is not because T.Cs support them but it is because neither sides could come to terms with each other.

The dream of partition existed for long time before Sampson. Sampson was put in jail just days after the invasion but your occupation continues for 30 years since then. So please don't use that as an excuse. TCs wanted this illegal separation and division. This has been their aim even before 1960, in 1974, and it continues to be today.
So blaming us for the results of your own plans for separation of Cypriots is ridiculous.

Exactly. Forgive me for saying that, but you are contradicting with yourself. In the previous paragraph you blamed T.Cs for supporting the "illegalities", but in the following paragraph you said both sides will have a problem unless it is solved, which is more feasable than the former.

And what is the contradiction? TCs and Turkey act illegally, and they face the consequences of their own illegal actions. It is up to them if they want to continue the illegalities or stop them. What they can not ask is to continue the illegalities without any kind of consequences.

[garbitsch]

Income tax is only a small part of the taxes somebody has to pay, and even that you have to pay it regardless who your employer is.

I repeat, even though I do not work in RoC, why should I pay taxes? I do not send my kids to your schools, I do not get benefit from the municipalities, since I do not live there. What you can only offer is free health and very few T.Cs do enjoy it.

The could to 2 year service even if it was not in the army

.

You are asking them to do 1 year military service in North and 2 year service in South. 3 years of service, is that what we have to do? Is this the price we should pay for the free health care?

The dream of partition existed for long time before Sampson. Sampson was put in jail just days after the invasion but your occupation continues for 30 years since then. So please don't use that as an excuse. TCs wanted this illegal separation and division. This has been their aim even before 1960, in 1974, and it continues to be today.
So blaming us for the results of your own plans for separation of Cypriots is ridiculous.

I said the T.Cs had already fleed to North. Besides RoC was not offering T.Cs security or whatever you call it. Turkey was of course guilty for not installing an interim government after 20 June, but divided the island instead. I am not saying we are not wrong. T.Cs wanted the illegal seperation as a reaction to Greek Cypriot's illegal Enosis dream, which was still prominent after 1960.
I didn't blame you guys. I am saying we are both guilty, but you say only T.Cs and Turkey are guilty. You claim that RoC is offering everything to us and we are the ones who are rejecting it. You ignore any solution attempt, but you only see the problem as RoC being invaded by Turkey, which leaves no room for Greek Cypriot guilt in the problem.

And what is the contradiction? TCs and Turkey act illegally, and they face the consequences of their own illegal actions. It is up to them if they want to continue the illegalities or stop them. What they can not ask is to continue the illegalities without any kind of consequences.

See above.

[bg_turk]

This is exactly what I support. However you support that TCs should have the 100% RoC rights while the GCs should not get their rights back!!

Also don't forget that being a citizen of RoC doesn't entail only rights, but responsibilities as well. TCs might not take all their rights from RoC but their responsibilities are also temporarily waved. Do TCs pay taxes to RoC? Do the serve 2 years in the army of RoC? If RoC was going to treat TCs as they treat GCs NOW, then the great majority of TCs would be guilty for illegalities and crimes such as treason.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem if RoC treated TCs in the exact same way as GCs today. However it is for the benefit of most TCs if RoC "forgets" about their illegalities and crimes even if that means it forgets some of their rights as well. (I said "most" because not all TCs are guilty for illegalities. Unfortunately those are only a small minority)

I completely despair. This is exactly the kind of reply I expected from you. You want a unitary state, where all citizens are equal, and at the same time you justify wrongs against TCs because of wrongs against GCs, hardly in accordance with your wish for equality.

What I am saying to you is that every CYPRIOT refugees (not turkish, not greek, but cypriot) should be able to return to their home. And if you truly believe in this you should fight for the unconditional implementation of this. Why is the RoC preventing Cypriots from returning to their homes in the South, and putting other cypriots into those homes. Every individual who is a refugee who is a citizen of the RoC should be treated in the same way.

Piratis, more and more I am starting to believe that what you actually want is annexation of Northern Cyprus not unification with TCs, and to you TCs are just an inconvenience and annoyance that you have to tolerate in order to get what you want.

Of course I accept that some TCs are against the occupation of our country from Turkey and those people are victims like us. However they are victims of the Turkish occupation since thats what is causing the abnormal situation in Cyprus and not RoC.

Again, you are ridiculing yourself. The abnormal situation is caused by the abnormal treatment of Cypriot citizens accordint to their ethnicity by the RoC. People cannot return to their homes because a government which claims to be theirs and which they accept as such by taking RoC citizenship, is preventing them from doing so!

[bg_turk]

Piratis,

please, answer honestly, whose interests do you think the RoC is defending - those of all Cypriots or only Greek Cypriots?

[bg_turk]

The problem of both TCs and GCs is going to be solved simultaneously. As long as we have a problem they will have a problem too and Turkey is going to have a problem also. If the Cyprus problem becames a problem only for GCs, then what would be the motive of TCs and Turkey to solve it??

Your words are rendering the RoC defunct, void and illegitimate. Cypriot Citizens have legal rights according to the constitution. You are using a subjective political argument to justify the suspension of the legal rights of citizens based on their ethnicity.

Do you understand that an individual TC is incapable of influence the behavior of a whole community or of a whole country. He only has control over his own actions. So if a TC wants his property in the south, he basically has to become a GC by christening himself and learning greek, basically that is the only way for him to achieve this objective at the moment.

You basically have two options:
(a) legallity
(b) illegality
Which one do you chose and which one are you ready and willing to imlement fully and unconditionally?

[Main_Source]

If A TC wants his property in the south, then that will most probably mean the GC refugee from the north living there will have nowhere to go...then what?

[Kifeas]

Your words are rendering the RoC defunct, void and illegitimate. Cypriot Citizens have legal rights according to the constitution. You are using a subjective political argument to justify the suspension of the legal rights of citizens based on their ethnicity.

Do you understand that an individual TC is incapable of influence the behavior of a whole community or of a whole country. He only has control over his own actions. So if a TC wants his property in the south, he basically has to become a GC by christening himself and learning greek, basically that is the only way for him to achieve this objective at the moment.

I simply cannot believe the rubbish I am reading from an otherwise intelligent person like you. Can you provide us your sources of these outrageous and completely untruthful claims?

[garbitsch]

Kifeas, I do not think he claims that that is the procedure the people should follow. He supposes that the only way for a T.C to claim back his/her property in south is to become G.C. He is simply pointing out the ethnic discrimination done by an EU member state regarding the properties issue.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas, I do not think he claims that that is the procedure the people should follow. He supposes that the only way for a T.C to claim back his/her property in south is to become G.C. He is simply pointing out the ethnic discrimination done by an EU member state regarding the properties issue.

I do not get it garbitsch, are you saying that he rightfully supposes so? If he wrongfully supposes so, then where does he base this assumption? Which is the ethnic discrimination that the RoC exercises regarding the property issue?