Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

First I am not old, and second I don't care how nice or not nice the "OTHER" is. What I care about is that I live in a democratic country were no racist discriminations exist and human rights are protected.

Well you are mentally old Just jokin. Yes you should care about the other. If you do not care about the other, then you cannot expect the other to carry about you. I also live in a democratic country where there are no racist discrimination etc (UK).

We never declared such things and the only thing we agreed was the agreements of 1960. For any other agreement to be official it has to pass from a referendum and be approved.

By we I mean the Greek Cypriot government. You didnt agree on 1960 either, since there wasnt a referandum. Dont contradict yourself Pirati! The Greek Cypriot side agreed on a BBF solution. Don't tell me that they are fooling us! Don't ever use the word "never" then....

We accepted what some foreigners imposed to us instead of having a referendum so the people of this island can decide the future. We accepted that an 18% could have veto powers, 30% governmental positions etc. What compromise did you make? That you didn't make as your slaves again, or that you postponed the ethnic cleansing against us? In 1960 we made far more compromises than you did and now you are asking for more!!

So the Republic of Cyprus has no credibility in the eyes of its citizens, since it was imposed on us by the foreigners. And since you owned the island, it was your right to hold a referendum and unify the island with Greece. Can't believe you are still there.. You are still contradicting your self. In order to give compromise, you have to own something. You didn't own Cyprus and you do not own Cyprus now. Under the British rule, Turkish Cypriots had their own administration, and Greek Cypriots had theirs. Neither sides made compromises. But if you say that "Cyprus was ours, you are just a minority, we had given you rights, this is the compromise", then I have doubts about your real aim. This means that "We wanted Enosis, this was our right, but we made a huge compromise by giving you 30% share in the government, and veto rights, which you didnt deserve". Ok then we made a compromise by giving away the Taksim dream then. First of all, you had given nothing to us. We got what was rightfully ours. We were never second class citizens in Cyprus...

This never happened. I guess you saw it in your dream. What happened in 1963 were proposals that in fact were very fair ones. Why should the 18% of TCs have the 30% of government jobs for example?

I said you tried... And yes you were going to succeed it I bet. So you made a compromise in your dreams then you wanted to denounce it again in your dreams... Believe me I prefer seeing Angelina Jolie in my dreams not the bloody Cyprus problem! Why shouldnt T.Cs have 30% of government jobs?? They didnt have any restrictions under British rule. Did they? Why are you so annoyed to see T.Cs around you?? Tell me this is getting more interesting... I tell you why we had 30%. Since the whole economy was in your hands, we could only become simple civil servants. If we had the 18% then many T.Cs would starve to death imo.

Who are dead are the 6000 you killed with your invasion. The RoC you didn't manage to kill despite your enormous efforts.

Turkish Cypriots didn't invade. Besides many of those were soldiers, you killed more civilians then Turkish Cypriots killed. Dont read me stories. The RoC is only on paper and people recognises that paper. In fact that Republic is ruled by Greek Cypriots who are willing to patch the T.C community to that republic without the consent of T.C.

What 30% power share are you talking about? You mean the 30% governmental positions? Why should the 18% of TCs keep 30% of governmental positions???

Why should we accept what you offer? On the one side you say you made compromise, on the other side you say you do not want the compromise. You are taking us back to 1963. Then you will offer minority status, we will get crazy, there will be war again and we will end up divided again. Is this your real endeavour piratis?

[Piratis]

If you do not care about the other, then you cannot expect the other to carry about you.

I don't expect any "others" to care about me. What I demand from others is to respect my human and democratic rights, not to care about me.

By we I mean the Greek Cypriot government. You didnt agree on 1960 either, since there wasnt a referandum. Dont contradict yourself Pirati! The Greek Cypriot side agreed on a BBF solution. Don't tell me that they are fooling us! Don't ever use the word "never" then....

In 1960 Makarios signed an agreement. Since then no agreement has been signed for the modification of RoC or for the creation of anything else other than RoC in Cyprus. This is a simple fact.

In order to give compromise, you have to own something. You didn't own Cyprus and you do not own Cyprus now.

I didn't say we own Cyprus exclusively. I said we are the 82% and it was our democratic right to unite Cyprus with Greece if we wanted. Accepting not to do it was a compromise of our right. What was your compromise?

But if you say that "Cyprus was ours, you are just a minority, we had given you rights, this is the compromise", then I have doubts about your real aim.

No, I say Cyprus belongs to Cypriots. We are 82% of Cypriots and you are the 18% minority.

This means that "We wanted Enosis, this was our right, but we made a huge compromise by giving you 30% share in the government, and veto rights, which you didnt deserve". Ok then we made a compromise by giving away the Taksim dream then.

Oh I see. So performing ethnic cleansing your right? Don't confuse your tradition with your rights my friend. Taksim was not your right, 30% of governmental positions when you are just the 18% and a veto power was not your right either. We made compromises in order to accept those things, while, as you admitted, your "compromise" was to postpone the ethnic cleansing against us.

Why shouldnt T.Cs have 30% of government jobs?? They didnt have any restrictions under British rule. Did they? Why are you so annoyed to see T.Cs around you??

So because under the British rule you were collaborating with the colonialists this means that in an independent Cyprus the 18% of TCs should have the 30% of government jobs?? I have no problem to see TCs around, what I have a problem with is imposed unfairness, and the 18% of TCs having 30% jobs is obviously unfair.

I tell you why we had 30%. Since the whole economy was in your hands, we could only become simple civil servants. If we had the 18% then many T.Cs would starve to death imo.

Nop, thats not the reason. The reason is that you had about the 30% of governmental jobs when we were under the British, and the British wanted you to continue to have this, so along with your veto they would be able to control Cyprus.

Turkish Cypriots didn't invade. Besides many of those were soldiers, you killed more civilians then Turkish Cypriots killed.

Not even the 1/100th. When it suits you the TCs have nothing to do with the invasion, they have nothing to do with the Ottomans. Don't pretend to be innocent. You are far from that.

Dont read me stories. The RoC is only on paper and people recognises that paper. In fact that Republic is ruled by Greek Cypriots who are willing to patch the T.C community to that republic without the consent of T.C.

On Paper? In what way is RoC recognized less than lets say China?

On the one side you say you made compromise, on the other side you say you do not want the compromise.

Nop, you say you don't want the compromise, not me. What I say is that if you ask for more than that compromise, then be sure that we will ask more also and not less.

Then you will offer minority status, we will get crazy, there will be war again and we will end up divided again. Is this your real endeavour piratis?

18% is a minority. If you get crazy because you are a minority thats not my fault.
We made an agreement in 1960. That agreement is very favorable to you. Now you are asking for more, but as we say "who wants more loses everything".

[Piratis]

Well, looking back I think we are off topic again.
Basically my position is that when you think of compromises you should remember that 1960 agreements was a compromise.

We asked for Enosis you asked for Taksim.

If we assume for theoretical purposes that the 1960 agreements were balanced (and balanced doesn't mean fair), then if what we asked for in 1960 was 0 and what you asked for was 100 then we both got 50.

However today you forced your 100 on us and now you want a new compromise. So even with a so called balanced compromise between the 50 and the 100 it will be 75!! Not only that, but since the balance of power favors Turkey, the result (Annan plan) is something like 90!

So what do you think is a fair compromise? For me whats closest to fair is the 50, not the 75 or the 90.

[garbitsch]

Piratis, you know well that the Turkish Cypriots will not turn back to 1960 republic whether it is fair or not. We all know that. So try to formulate something else...

[Piratis]

Piratis, you know well that the Turkish Cypriots will not turn back to 1960 republic whether it is fair or not. We all know that. So try to formulate something else...

And why should we accept anything that is not fair? An unfair "solution" is not the solution. Is simply part of the problem.

[bg_turk]

If you do not care about the other, then you cannot expect the other to carry about you.

I don't expect any "others" to care about me. What I demand from others is to respect my human and democratic rights, not to care about me.

Piratis,

while you repeatedly emphasize how much you want others to respect your "human and democratic rights", you are yourself unwilling to respect the rights of others. Your state still denies TC those rights that you demand. You do not have the moral high ground to demand those rights at all. If you give all the rights you demand from TCs to TCs as wel without hiding behind such pretexts as "until a solution is found", then I would give your cause my full support.

In this respect I am sorry to say it but I do not have much sympathy for you as a refugee, especially in light of the fact that almost every second TC is a refugee and has been moved more than once first during the intercommunal violance, and later during the war of 1974. You do enjoy a higher living standard in the south, and just because you think you have more rights than turkish cypriots, I do not think the lives of so many poor and isolated TCs should be turned upside down because YOU believe you have the right to live in what they now call their home.

[bg_turk]

Piratis, you know well that the Turkish Cypriots will not turn back to 1960 republic whether it is fair or not. We all know that. So try to formulate something else...

And why should we accept anything that is not fair? An unfair "solution" is not the solution. Is simply part of the problem.

Piratis,

a fair solution does not exist! You must fully understand the term "fair" is a subjective one and its interpretation varies from person to person. What you consider to be fair, might very well be unfair to others. What Denktash, and Papadopolous, think is unfair, might seem fair to the majority of TCs and GCs.

You think the Annan Plan was unfair, then this is your problem, because most of the Western and Eastern Hemispheres and 25% of your compatriots, and 65% of your would be compatriots, seemed to disagree with you.

I know life is unfair sometimes and it is unfair to all of us, but we are grown ups so please grow up and stop crying this is fair , and this is unfair like a little child.

[Piratis]

while you repeatedly emphasize how much you want others to respect your "human and democratic rights", you are yourself unwilling to respect the rights of others. Your state still denies TC those rights that you demand. You do not have the moral high ground to demand those rights at all. If you give all the rights you demand from TCs to TCs as wel without hiding behind such pretexts as "until a solution is found", then I would give your cause my full support.

I do not violate the human and democratic rights of anybody. The ones that choose illegality are the TCs. Not me. They choose illegality because what they stole from us is twice as much than what they left behind.

I want legality. What do they want? If they want legality too, then we can all have the 100% of our rights back simultaneously.

[Piratis]

You must fully understand the term "fair" is a subjective one and its interpretation varies from person to person.

Fair for me is a solution based on human rights and democracy. If for you fair is something that is undemocratic and against human rights then you are the one with a problem, not me.

You think the Annan Plan was unfair, then this is your problem, because most of the Western and Eastern Hemispheres and 25% of your compatriots, and 65% of your would be compatriots, seemed to disagree with you.

So you like the Annan plan? I guess you also know that in the annan plan it is said that if this plan was rejected it would be null and void. In this respect it is fair because if we liked it we could have it, and if we didn't like it we could reject it. We rejected it. Fair enough?

And by the way, can you quote me the countries that have officially said that the Annan plan was a fair solution? Lets see how many of the 200 or so countries you can find.
Some countries said that the Annan plan should be accepted as a compromise not because it was fair.

Not most, by the whole world apart from Turkey supports that the one and only state that exists on this island is RoC. Why you do not accept that?

[Piratis]

I know life is unfair sometimes and it is unfair to all of us, but we are grown ups so please grow up and stop crying this is fair , and this is unfair like a little child.

Who said I am crying? Are you dreaming?? I simply state that anything unfair is rejected. Period.