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How stupid are we?

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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby wyoming cowboy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:42 am

Bananiot wrote:If Denktash is resented because he is a nationalist then equally resented are the GC nationalists, such as the late Papadopoulos, Lyssarides, Omirou, Sillouris, Lillikas and a few others that eye the top spot. I have never voted any of these jokers, because I know that all are problems stem from the choices of the nationalists from both sides. There is no need to speculate as to how I will vote. I will tell you when the chips are down, I have never hidden behind nicks and anonymity like most of our forum patriots.



If Erato is elected as an independent, which i know in cyprus is a longshot, her nonparty affiliation could give her more flexebility in decision making in Cyprus..
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby Bananiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:36 am

So Kimon07, your true colours, those of extreme nationalism, are finally exposed. You really think that the fool named Grivas liberated us from the Brits! He did not, he wanted union with Greece, which was quite possible at the time, but all he managed to do was to get dubious independence for Cyprus at a period when the British colonies were being handed their independence, one after the other. Regarding the so called sovereign British area south of Cyprus, this is the worst lie invented by those that daemonised the Annan Plan. There was no such thing in the Plan.

Cowboy, Eratw does have party affiliations. She is a DISI sympathiser and she supports the moderate fraction within the party.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby kimon07 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:00 am

Bananiot wrote:So Kimon07, your true colours, those of extreme nationalism, are finally exposed.


Don't lie. I never tried to hide my my preferences. I even suggested Lillikas months ago when you asked me whom I would like for president. I had answered "Lyssarides if he was not so old and second choice Lillikas.

You really think that the fool named Grivas liberated us from the Brits! He did not, he wanted union with Greece, which was quite possible at the time, but all he managed to do was to get dubious independence for Cyprus at a period when the British colonies were being handed their independence, one after the other.


Lots of nonsense. I have already answered you on this in previous posts. I will repost them later.

Regarding the so called sovereign British area south of Cyprus, this is the worst lie invented by those that daemonised the Annan Plan. There was no such thing in the Plan.


In order to show that you either a lire or an ignorant I will re post in a while a previous post of mine with the exact par. which was giving to Britain exclusive exploitation rights on the biggest part of our south sea.

And finally, this thread is about whom to vote for. You are derailing it.
Personally I will vote for anyone of those whom you reject. If you and the kinds of you reject somebody, it means they are good for Cyprus. Thanks for listing all their names.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby kimon07 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:29 am

Here you are Babnaniot. Enjoy once again.

“Grivas himself wrote that 'through military action we did not seek to defeat the
English but to coerce a political solution according to our desires'. This
comment goes to the heart of the matter. In retrospect the aim of the EOKA
struggle was rather sophisticated, which required political prudence and an
impeccable sense of timing.
That is an important factor to be borne in mind when
assessing the reasons why it failed.”
………….
“Essentially the aim of EOKA's violence was to nudge the British from the
position of 'never'
they had publicly taken in the summer of 1954 to negotiations that would pave the way to enosis.”

………..

“THE EOKA campaign, therefore, had to be a balancing act between striking a sense
of urgency into the British over Cyprus and avoiding the destruction of
Greco-British relations, as a solution would be decided by negotiations between
the two states.”
………..

“Makarios misses an opportunity

NEVERTHELESS, despite the strategic mistakes of the EOKA struggle the Greek
Cypriots were given an opportunity to achieve their original aim.
It occurred
during the negotiations of Makarios with the Governor, Field Marshal Sir John
Harding, when the British offered the promise of self-determination at some
unspecified moment in future. But the talks collapsed.”

"This was the first and last time that the British talked with the Greek Cypriot
leadership, hoping to achieve the pacification of the Island through a political
settlement. It was also the only time when the British government conceded,
theoretically at least, the possibility of unitary self-determination,
fulfilling one of EOKA's original objectives. This proposal was made at a time
when certain officials were contemplating to 'tell the Turks that 18 per cent of
the [Cypriot] population cannot have an unqualified veto on the remaining 82 per
cent'.

Unwittingly Makarios turned down the Harding proposal and failed the litmus test that the British policy makers had set up for him. His refusal to co-operate
with the British was fatal. From that moment the British government resolved it
could no longer deal with the Greek Cypriots or the Greek government."



And now, Bananiot, in order to answer your lies that EOKA was subdued since 1957, take this:

“It was a message reiterated on 22 January 1958: 'If terrorism broke out again in
Cyprus,
we could not afford indefinitely to devote military resources to its
repression.'
This warning was conveyed to the Greek government and Makarios in
February 1958 when a British delegation traveled to Athens for consultations and
was later repeated in May. When the British Cabinet discussed the Macmillan Plan
in that month, it concluded:

If, however, the plan failed and it became necessary to seek a final solution of
the problem of Cyprus on other lines, we should regard ourselves as bound by our
previous assurances in regard to the application of the principle of self-determination.

In other words if EOKA were to oppose the plan through widespread violence to
further destabilize the Island further, the British would be forced to divide
Cyprus and withdraw.”


Capishe, Babaniot?? Neither the British army (40.000) nor the treasons of AKEL managed to subdue EOKA.

http://britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Da ... iracy.html

P.S. The author of the article, in his effort to prove that the EOKA struggle DID fail, proves exactly the contrary with above admissions. If you insist to the contrary I will gladly post the whole article with comments of mine, paragraph by paragraph but under another thread since this is about whom to elect president.

P.S. 2 I will be back with the Annan Plan provisions about the BB.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby kimon07 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:02 pm

Bananiot wrote: Regarding the so called sovereign British area south of Cyprus, this is the worst lie invented by those that daemonised the Annan Plan. There was no such thing in the Plan.


AHI Analysis and Statement on Annan Plan-5 for Cyprus

The Annan-5's political and economic corruption provisions

http://www.helleniccomserve.com/ahianna ... may05.html

………….

The Annan-5 proposals included a most pernicious provision slipped in by Great Britain which granted the British the right to unilaterally define the continental shelf and territorial waters along their two base areas and to claim potential mineral rights. Under the 1959-1960 London Zurich agreements, Britain did not have such rights (see the 2nd annex to the Additional Protocol to the 1959 Treaty of Establishment).

That provision, maneuvered by David Hannay, John Kerr and Emyr Jones Parry, is both political and economic corruption of a particularly heinous nature since the question of territorial waters has nothing to do with a constitutional settlement on Cyprus. That corruption is simply a power play by Britain to grab a potential economic bonanza and further limit Cyprus sovereignty.

And:
12. In addition, one notes under the Annan Plan the right of the UK to complete and unimpeded access for any purpose whatsoever to the waters between the Sovereign Base Areas’ waters and the fact that international judicial or third party settlement procedure is expressly forbidden with regard to disputes concerning the Sovereign Base Areas. Such disputes were to be resolved by an arbitrator appointed by the authorities of the Sovereign Base Areas.
http://www.alfreddezayas.com/Law_histor ... osal.shtml

P.S. Bananitot.
Going through some older posts in this forum, I noticed that you keep repeating the same false statements about various things over and over again, regardless of how many times other members prove you wrong or lying. You should stop this tactics. They don't get you anywhere.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:57 pm

kimon07 wrote:Here you are Babnaniot. Enjoy once again.

“Grivas himself wrote that 'through military action we did not seek to defeat the
English but to coerce a political solution according to our desires'. This
comment goes to the heart of the matter. In retrospect the aim of the EOKA
struggle was rather sophisticated, which required political prudence and an
impeccable sense of timing.
That is an important factor to be borne in mind when
assessing the reasons why it failed.”
………….
“Essentially the aim of EOKA's violence was to nudge the British from the
position of 'never'
they had publicly taken in the summer of 1954 to negotiations that would pave the way to enosis.”

………..

“THE EOKA campaign, therefore, had to be a balancing act between striking a sense
of urgency into the British over Cyprus and avoiding the destruction of
Greco-British relations, as a solution would be decided by negotiations between
the two states.”
………..

“Makarios misses an opportunity

NEVERTHELESS, despite the strategic mistakes of the EOKA struggle the Greek
Cypriots were given an opportunity to achieve their original aim.
It occurred
during the negotiations of Makarios with the Governor, Field Marshal Sir John
Harding, when the British offered the promise of self-determination at some
unspecified moment in future. But the talks collapsed.”

"This was the first and last time that the British talked with the Greek Cypriot
leadership, hoping to achieve the pacification of the Island through a political
settlement. It was also the only time when the British government conceded,
theoretically at least, the possibility of unitary self-determination,
fulfilling one of EOKA's original objectives. This proposal was made at a time
when certain officials were contemplating to 'tell the Turks that 18 per cent of
the [Cypriot] population cannot have an unqualified veto on the remaining 82 per
cent'.

Unwittingly Makarios turned down the Harding proposal and failed the litmus test that the British policy makers had set up for him. His refusal to co-operate
with the British was fatal. From that moment the British government resolved it
could no longer deal with the Greek Cypriots or the Greek government."



And now, Bananiot, in order to answer your lies that EOKA was subdued since 1957, take this:

“It was a message reiterated on 22 January 1958: 'If terrorism broke out again in
Cyprus,
we could not afford indefinitely to devote military resources to its
repression.'
This warning was conveyed to the Greek government and Makarios in
February 1958 when a British delegation traveled to Athens for consultations and
was later repeated in May. When the British Cabinet discussed the Macmillan Plan
in that month, it concluded:

If, however, the plan failed and it became necessary to seek a final solution of
the problem of Cyprus on other lines, we should regard ourselves as bound by our
previous assurances in regard to the application of the principle of self-determination.

In other words if EOKA were to oppose the plan through widespread violence to
further destabilize the Island further, the British would be forced to divide
Cyprus and withdraw.”


Capishe, Babaniot?? Neither the British army (40.000) nor the treasons of AKEL managed to subdue EOKA.

http://britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Da ... iracy.html

P.S. The author of the article, in his effort to prove that the EOKA struggle DID fail, proves exactly the contrary with above admissions. If you insist to the contrary I will gladly post the whole article with comments of mine, paragraph by paragraph but under another thread since this is about whom to elect president.

P.S. 2 I will be back with the Annan Plan provisions about the BB.


The aim of EOKA was to acheive Enosis - in that aim they clearly failed.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby Mapko » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:13 pm

[Tut, tut, tut.] Some people clearly don't know the history of their own country!

The great, great man - recognised so by Cyprus, Greece and Britain - Grivas, created EOKA will the main priority to get the British out of Cyprus, which he did. The lesser priority was to gain enosis. Which is why EOKA only lasted until 1959, as it had served its main purpose - 1st April, 1960.

EOKA B was created with the sole purpose of enosis.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby kimon07 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:17 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:The aim of EOKA was to achieve Enosis - in that aim they clearly failed.


The "motto" of all Cypriots and of EOKA during that time (except for the treasonous Akelists) was "Aftodiathesis (self determination) - Enosis".
EOKA DID achieve its aim to force Britain to offer independence - self determination which would lead to Enosis. Makarios (maybe Grivas also) failed to grab the opportunity when offered by Harding. And later to negotiate more viable constitutional provisions for the young state.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby Bananiot » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:24 pm

Rubbish, absolute rubbish! From both of you.
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Re: How stupid are we?

Postby kurupetos » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:34 pm

Bananiot wrote:Rubbish, absolute rubbish! From both of you.

I agree. EOKA A & B failed. We need EOKA C. :wink:
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