Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

So, you think the foreigners (I scorn the word) are waiting from Bananiot (or anyone else) to learn the truth! You think like this in year 2004, when 2 people like you and me who have never set eyes at each other can discuss things and exchange ideas in real time and in an eye blink.

I scorn the way you you claim that my way of thinking is a weapon in the hand of "foreigners" who costantly conspire against our country (but happen to be our stakeholders). Funny, but I was accused of exactly the same thing when we were fighting against the Greek junta.

If you or anyone else is interested in democratic debate you should know that fascist-like directives of the type

"Do you think what you are doing consitutes a moral or an immoral behaviour?"

do not touch me and those riding morality's high grounds are usually found wanting themeselves; this is what life has tought me.

You are saying that I twist and manufacture reality, you are asking me to shut up because the 8 points I raised are merely propaganda and thus have nothing to do with the real world. Well, lets wait and see, who is telling the lies and then we can talk again, provided you can accept the basic principle of democracy which you appear lately to forget.

[Piratis]

Bananiot, for most of your points we don't even have to wait to see the truth.
I mean do you even doubt that the future of professional soldiers would be uncertain, or that the Republic of Cyprus would collapse? (actually not just collapse, but cease to exist). These things are simple facts.

Other things are also obvious, like for example that the economy and the social security would collapse.
Some say "yes, but in the long run the economy would be good". But the truth is, that the Annan plan was so dysfunctional we would never reach this "long run".

So the government simply said the truth to the people. The government of Papadopoulos doesn't lie and it doesn't deceive people, like Cleredes did that he got elected twice by giving fake promises and lying to the people to steal their votes.

you are hurting your own people via dirty and untrue propaganda, don't you understand? This propaganda is 10 times more difficult to prove a lie in the eyes of foreigners because it comes from OUR OWN PEOPLE like you and Anastasiades !!!!

MicAtCyp, do you really believe that those foreigners wait for somebody in our side to give them the excuses that they want? They simply pay some people to say what they want them to say. Do you really think that those people believe that what they do is something helpful for their country? They know that it is not, hurting Cyprus is exactly what they got paid to do. So telling them that they are hurting Cyprus is something that satisfies them because they feel that they are doing their job right.

At least those traitors are not in power anymore, and they will not get it again. Disi didn't manage to get the power for long time, until unfortunately some of us forgot the treason those people did. Now after this second treason, we should remember who they are, and that they will never change. A traitor is always a traitor. They will now continue to do their damage from a different post, but now they will not be able to do as big damage as they did before.

[Bananiot]

You can hand yourself as many medals on patriotism as you wish Piratis, its Olympics period, make sure you are not cought with bad substances. You do not need them, you are the champion in this field, by far.

At least you are not questioning the validity of the 8 points, you know these things and many more happened prior to the referendum. In the meantime, I would be willing to share some of the dollars of treason with you provided you agree that Papadopoulos, at least, tells some lies. Let me give you another example:

Recently, he said that he does not feel obliged to reveal his stragety but people that should know of his goals have been informed. You would think that among these people would be his partner Christofias, wouldn't you? Well, speaking in Limassol the other day the AKEL chief called for the goals to be set clearly in the National Council. Papadopoulos my friend is clueless and leading Cyprus to partition and you can cheer him all day long if it suits you, but I will not say you are a traitor. This is cretin language ...

[Piratis]

"Cretin language"? You don't like it when somebody points out the paid propaganda against your own country that you are conducting?

I didn't say that those things are true or not simply because I can not be a soldier, a policeman, a central bank employee etc at the same time to know if those things are said or not.

What I say, is that even if those things are said are the truth and nothing less.

Papadopoulos said that people that should know they do. He didn't say that Christofias knows, and judging from the hermaphrodite position of AKEL in the referendum probably thats for the best.

[MicAtCyp]

If there was a 'third' category recgonised and defined by the UN of 'more than a
minority' and 'less than a people' then this would not be a problem. Is that a bit clearer now?

Like I said for me personally there is no objection.
However I have to repeat. Are you sure the ordinary people GCs or TCs are mature enough to accept such a decision? What if the UN decides is just a Minority status plus some privilages. Won’t the TCs start shouting? What if it decides it’s "a peoples" status less some privilages. Won’t the GCs start shouting? What if it is something in between. Won’t everybody shout?

I have also another serious doubt. For the Un to decide on an "in between" category and make it a Standard there must be voting and approval at the UN general assembly. According to McCroquadale there are 5000 similar disputes around the world (inside about 250 countries) . What is the chance for it to even appear at the General Assembly for voting?

If my doubt is correct then what alternatives are there? Any sugestions?

Furthermore the Cyprus problem will not be solved by just this. Ok we agreed there must be a list of issues to be agreed and a supplementary clause in the constitution that no decision can benefit or hurm one community on the expense of the other. What about the issues themselves?

Then what about the so many other issues that constitute the Cyprus problem?

Can continue after you return Erol. In the meantime have a relaxing break.

[MicAtCyp]

Bananiot I asked you a simple question. You did not answer my question !! Do you want me to repeat it for you?

And then you bursted into a rhetoric which is completely groundless and on most parts irrelevant.
If you want to have a serious discussion stop the rhetoric, and concentrate on the essense. Nobody told you to shut up, you can say whatever you like, but you cannot have my respect if what you say is a proven lie and a distortion of the truth.

PS. I can even dare ask any TC member in this forum, to read your post and then my reply, and tell us honestly what they think you are doing.

[Bananiot]

You quite explicitely write that what I am doing (critisising Papadopoulos) constitutes an immoral behaviour and then you have the audacity to ask simple questions. You write that the 8 points I pinpointed (there are many more) constitute dirty and untrue propaganda.

My friend, change your tune and then we can talk. Perhaps, even the TC of this forum can tell you that you can not expect answers from someone you throw mad at forgeting quite conveniently good manners, even when you take critisism directed at Papadopoulos personally (He is a single person we are the people)

[Piratis]

Perhaps, even the TC of this forum can tell you that you can not expect answers from someone you throw mad at forgeting quite conveniently good manners

throwing mad is your job.

[MicAtCyp]

You quite explicitely write that what I am doing (critisising Papadopoulos) constitutes an immoral behaviour and then you have the audacity to ask simple questions

Boy o' boy!!! Is this what I explicetely said????
Furthermore is that a critisism or a dirty and untrue propaganda aiming at hurting ALL the people and not just Papadopoulos alone?

WILL YOU EVER ANSWER MY INITIAL QUESTION? THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I AM ASKING YOU.

Did the Government lie or did it tell the truth? [/quote]

[MicAtCyp]

You write that the 8 points I pinpointed (there are many more) constitute dirty and untrue propaganda.

Yes and I proved it to you! In a democratic way and with arguments to which you simply refuse to reply.

Consuming your, and our time, on rhetorics will not help you out.