Cyprus-Forum.com

[devil]

I've a friend who wanted to rent an office above a bank and from the same bank in Larnaca. As his work is 99% over the Internet, he phoned the CYTA help line and asked whether he could have ADSL at such and such an address.

What's your phone number?

Haven't got a phone yet: I'll not rent this office unless I'm sure I can get ADSL

You have to install a phone first, then we'll tell you

I'd like to speak to someone in charge, please

(30 minutes later, after having been passed through numerous equally incompetent persons)

My friend explains the situation for the nth time

What's your phone number?

Haven't got a phone yet: I'll not rent this office unless I'm sure I can get ADSL

You have to install a phone first, then we'll tell you

But I don't want to rent this place unless I'm sure of obtaining ADSL

Well, do any neighbours have ADSL?

Don't know. Look, the bank who owns the office is in the same building, can you tell me whether they can get it?

What's their number?

24 nnn nnn

(Pause 2 minutes) H'mm they have a private leased data line, so they don't need ADSL

That's not the point, could they get ADSL on their regular phone, as they are in the same building?

(Pause 1 minute)

Theoretically, they could but we do know that there have been some problems of slow data transmission from that exchange.

Thank you (hangs up)

[coredump]

devil, take it easy That's not only Cyta but rather general [known as] “High level of services” local attitude
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

Who wants to invest in Cyprus?
By Bernd Eckenbach
(archive article - Friday, September 23, 2005)

LAST week, the Trade Ministry announced a fundamental change in its policies in order to attract foreign investment. For those ignorant European business people who haven’t yet recognised or understood the advantages of Cyprus as an attractive investment location, the minister gave some interesting coaching that has to be examined more carefully.

1. Cyprus’ strategic geographical location at the crossroads of Europe, Africa and the Middle East is indeed a real advantage, but only in the age of hand-firearms.
Nowadays, most of the far distant economic powers have achieved successful business relations with those crossing points, with trading amounts Cyprus will never reach! What matters is not the geographical aspect, but being an economic connecting link. And this is mainly a question of the right mentality.

2. Cyprus’ EU membership is widely known by expectations of “what to get out of Europe”, while there seems to be no contribution worth mentioning up to now. In fact, Cyprus’ EU membership seems only to be causing problems for the EU. Given Cyprus’ image in the EU, its member status is not a reference for foreign investors.

3. The so-called “High level of services” in any field of business can be experienced in everyday life: not one week without electricity cuts, unannounced interruption of water supply, insufficient NHS, foreigners are charged much higher than Cypriots wherever possible, endless procedures for any kind of application, companies and even authorities who are unable even to describe their location – it would be an endless list to mention everything.

4. The quality of life depends on how much money a foreigner is willing to spend or how much he accepts to be ripped-off. The living costs are among the highest in Europe, the services one of the lowest.

5. The sunny climate the Minister tries to sell to potential investors is not a specific advantage: when the sun is setting in Cyprus, it doesn’t simply disappear in the sea, it is rising somewhere else.

6. Regarding double taxation treaties, the Trade Minister should notice that all EU countries provide such agreements, in many cases more advantageous for investors.

7. The uniform corporate tax of 10 per cent stressed by Mr Lillikas is only part of the truth as it is only valid for the first million pounds. Above one million, the tax rate is 15 per cent. Probably interesting to know for the Big Boys Mr. Lillikas wants to attract.

In one thing the Minister is absolutely right: those “advantages” are not the end of the story: there is an additional so-called “defence tax”, something that is hard to understand in the context of Cyprus’ EU membership.
Labour costs are not very attractive. Buying a car in Cyprus or importing a car from another EU country is more expensive than anywhere else in the EU. Registering the car is an adventure of its own that proves the “high level of services”.

All these things are well-known in Europe, but in Mr Lillikas’ favour I’m convinced he hasn’t had all those things in mind when creating his new “three pillars concept”.
At first sight, the creation of a Cyprus Investment Promotion Agency (CIPA) could be a good idea. But one can assume that the necessary staff will be recruited from those Cypriots who have already been providing a “high level of services” in the past – i.e. experienced professionals from the government, who - in most cases - can give you some friendly advice like “I don’t know” or “You have to ask a lawyer” or “I’m not responsible for your request”. Let’s wait and see whether Mr Lillikas will succeed in forming a professional team out of a community of friends, relatives and related friends. But training on location and how to redirect incoming calls will be mandatory for success, and keep in mind that foreign investors regularly speak only little Greek.
Reducing bureaucracy and speeding up application processes could be one of the big points of the concept. Foreign investors would appreciate not needing to know somebody in the government or having a relative or a related friend there.

The necessity of marketing and promoting the island might be the minister’s biggest error: the Republic of Cyprus as it is today is well known in Europe, mainly because of the impressions tourists got over the recent years. Not promoting Cyprus to foreign investors but promoting Cyprus to the Cypriots should be the government’s target. The government would do better to spend all the money they have earmarked on education for the real EU principles, to change people’s mentalities. It’s a long way to go, but if Cyprus wants to be really European it’s worth a go.

If the government fails to do so, those three intended pillars will prove to be extremely shaky, not even able to hold the bed in which the minister is dreaming.

Bernd Eckenbach is a German business consultant based in Cyprus

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2005

[cyprusgrump]

devil, take it easy That's not only Cyta but rather general [known as] “High level of services” local attitude
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

Who wants to invest in Cyprus?
By Bernd Eckenbach
(archive article - Friday, September 23, 2005)

LAST week, the Trade Ministry announced a fundamental change in its policies in order to attract foreign investment. For those ignorant European business people who haven’t yet recognised or understood the advantages of Cyprus as an attractive investment location, the minister gave some interesting coaching that has to be examined more carefully.

1. Cyprus’ strategic geographical location at the crossroads of Europe, Africa and the Middle East is indeed a real advantage, but only in the age of hand-firearms.
Nowadays, most of the far distant economic powers have achieved successful business relations with those crossing points, with trading amounts Cyprus will never reach! What matters is not the geographical aspect, but being an economic connecting link. And this is mainly a question of the right mentality.

2. Cyprus’ EU membership is widely known by expectations of “what to get out of Europe”, while there seems to be no contribution worth mentioning up to now. In fact, Cyprus’ EU membership seems only to be causing problems for the EU. Given Cyprus’ image in the EU, its member status is not a reference for foreign investors.

3. The so-called “High level of services” in any field of business can be experienced in everyday life: not one week without electricity cuts, unannounced interruption of water supply, insufficient NHS, foreigners are charged much higher than Cypriots wherever possible, endless procedures for any kind of application, companies and even authorities who are unable even to describe their location – it would be an endless list to mention everything.

4. The quality of life depends on how much money a foreigner is willing to spend or how much he accepts to be ripped-off. The living costs are among the highest in Europe, the services one of the lowest.

5. The sunny climate the Minister tries to sell to potential investors is not a specific advantage: when the sun is setting in Cyprus, it doesn’t simply disappear in the sea, it is rising somewhere else.

6. Regarding double taxation treaties, the Trade Minister should notice that all EU countries provide such agreements, in many cases more advantageous for investors.

7. The uniform corporate tax of 10 per cent stressed by Mr Lillikas is only part of the truth as it is only valid for the first million pounds. Above one million, the tax rate is 15 per cent. Probably interesting to know for the Big Boys Mr. Lillikas wants to attract.

In one thing the Minister is absolutely right: those “advantages” are not the end of the story: there is an additional so-called “defence tax”, something that is hard to understand in the context of Cyprus’ EU membership.
Labour costs are not very attractive. Buying a car in Cyprus or importing a car from another EU country is more expensive than anywhere else in the EU. Registering the car is an adventure of its own that proves the “high level of services”.

All these things are well-known in Europe, but in Mr Lillikas’ favour I’m convinced he hasn’t had all those things in mind when creating his new “three pillars concept”.
At first sight, the creation of a Cyprus Investment Promotion Agency (CIPA) could be a good idea. But one can assume that the necessary staff will be recruited from those Cypriots who have already been providing a “high level of services” in the past – i.e. experienced professionals from the government, who - in most cases - can give you some friendly advice like “I don’t know” or “You have to ask a lawyer” or “I’m not responsible for your request”. Let’s wait and see whether Mr Lillikas will succeed in forming a professional team out of a community of friends, relatives and related friends. But training on location and how to redirect incoming calls will be mandatory for success, and keep in mind that foreign investors regularly speak only little Greek.
Reducing bureaucracy and speeding up application processes could be one of the big points of the concept. Foreign investors would appreciate not needing to know somebody in the government or having a relative or a related friend there.

The necessity of marketing and promoting the island might be the minister’s biggest error: the Republic of Cyprus as it is today is well known in Europe, mainly because of the impressions tourists got over the recent years. Not promoting Cyprus to foreign investors but promoting Cyprus to the Cypriots should be the government’s target. The government would do better to spend all the money they have earmarked on education for the real EU principles, to change people’s mentalities. It’s a long way to go, but if Cyprus wants to be really European it’s worth a go.

If the government fails to do so, those three intended pillars will prove to be extremely shaky, not even able to hold the bed in which the minister is dreaming.

Bernd Eckenbach is a German business consultant based in Cyprus

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2005

Excellent!

[Piratis]

Bernd Eckenbach is a German business consultant based in Cyprus

Makes you wander why this person is based in Cyprus. Why he doesn't go to Germany were the taxation will not be 10% or 15% but a whole lot more, or to UK were the sun shines for us long as it does in Cyprus, but you have to fly above the clouds to see it?

My girlfriend is not Cypriot and she has never been "ripped-off". Prices on some goods might be higher but unless you have low IQ nobody will rip you off.

No place is perfect. However according to most European statistics Cypriots are on average among the happiest Europeans. This is what matters most, and thats enough to prove that we are doing better than those no life idiots that want to teach us how to live our lives.

[andytandreou]

Bernd Eckenbach is a German business consultant based in Cyprus

Makes you wander why this person is based in Cyprus. Why he doesn't go to Germany were the taxation will not be 10% or 15% but a whole lot more, or to UK were the sun shines for us long as it does in Cyprus, but you have to fly above the clouds to see it?

My girlfriend is not Cypriot and she has never been "ripped-off". Prices on some goods might be higher but unless you have low IQ nobody will rip you off.

No place is perfect. However according to most European statistics Cypriots are on average among the happiest Europeans. This is what matters most, and thats enough to prove that we are doing better than those no life idiots that want to teach us how to live our lives.

I agree 100% with your views

[andytandreou]

1. Cyprus’ strategic geographical location at the crossroads of Europe, Africa and the Middle East is indeed a real advantage, but only in the age of hand-firearms.

The above statement is nonsence! Has this guy forgotten that location still matters in 2005. We don't all have Star Trek "beam me up" transportation like he does. What about attracting people from the regions as students or for seminars or masters degrees or for conferences? How about being a regional center of medicine and (as recently shown in the news) pilot training. How about being the base for regional TV stations like ME-tv in limassol. Air-Universal has made Cyprus it's international hub and is making investments of over a billion pounds (including its aircraft). I think location does matter, but obviously not to our 25th century friend from Germany.

[coredump]

About "ripping off"
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

Far cry from Europe indeed
(archive article - Sunday, September 25, 2005)

Sir,

On the theme of Cyprus and Europe, I would like to help satisfy L.B.’s interest in “hearing from others who have had similar experiences” (‘A little bit of Europe would help’, Letters to the Editor, September 7). Of many others, I have two current stories to relay.

The simple one first. I like watching football matches and have been to a fair number of matches in different countries, such as Germany, Wales or the USA – and even in Cyprus. Most recently I went to support the local national team in their World Cup qualifier against Switzerland. Apart from the notoriously poor turn-up, the scandalous part concerns the ticketing. (It seems only the Nicosia derbies attract a fair crowd, despite the nation’s apparent hunger for football.) When “queuing” (three lines per window, with people tucking in from left and right) in a fair crowd before the match, a steward asked us whether we would like to go to the Swiss block. I guess speaking German gave us away. In line of the long queue, we thus gave it a shot. To our surprise we were told at the “Swiss block” that tickets would be £20! This struck me as a lot; I know for a fact I paid way less when Cyprus played France a year ago. So we went back to the main ticketing window, queued for a good 15 minutes and got our tickets – for £6 each! I have never experienced such a pricing difference for local vs away supporters – or any, for that matter.

The next story is slightly more disconcerting. As anyone trying to get involved with telecommunications (read: CyTA) knows: it’s a nightmare! But disregarding the usual problems (no service, two months’ wait for connection, lack of support, and so on), try and get a GSM mobile phone contract with CyTA as a “foreigner”. I did two years ago, when Cyprus was not in the EU yet, and was told that as a “foreigner” I had to pay a security deposit of a mere £1,000. Yeah, right! I didn’t want to get involved in the issue then and figured once Cyprus joins the EU, these anti-foreigner laws would be a thing of the past. Little did I know. Surprised at my Greek colleagues’ GSM contracts (I suppose, the Greeks just don’t count as “foreigners”), I called CyTA and inquired over the phone whether that policy still existed. The nice service representative (they’re always nice, but useless as regards knowledge) told me that this regulation had been changed with EU accession. So I asked what I, a citizen of an EU member state, fully employed at the University of Cyprus, would have to do and was told to go to a CyTA shop to sign up. I did and the story takes a twisted turn.

At first, I put it down to my representative’s junior status that he had to double-check with colleagues (three, one of them his supervisor) whether I had to pay a deposit and how much it was. The answer that I had to pay a deposit of £100, “because you are a foreigner”. Certain that this was the kind of mistake I could fix with a nice letter to CyTA, I didn’t say much, offered my £100 and went ahead with the sign-up. When everything was done, he filled out a receipt – and noticed a slight mistake. Rather embarrassed he tells me that the deposit was actually £1,000, i.e. nothing had changed in the regulations. Upon my objection that Cyprus is supposedly part of the EU now and that I, coming from an EU member state, would surely not be made pay any “security deposit”, he asked his supervisor for an “exception” in my case.

Then the supervisor came to me and “explained” that the deposit had nothing to do with me being a “foreigner” (if not, then what does?). Instead of telling me why I had to pay this deposit, she informs me that this has been approved by the Ministry of Telecommunications. Well, our “conversation” continued for a little bit, fruitlessly, and went back to my oh-so-easy card.

This time, I would be interested in “foreign” readers’ experiences with CyTA’s GSM contract. Oh, I forgot: the deposit has nothing to do with us being “foreigners” – maybe it is to do with us NOT being Cypriot or Greek...

Dr. Kleanthes K. Grohmann, Nicosia

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2005

[andytandreou]

Don't you actually need a bank account to have a mobile phone in the UK? Each country has their own regulations. Cyta is just dumb because they could just have a policy where-by they ask for a bank account from their customers (who will also pay by direct debit) AND IF the customer doesn't have a bank a/c then they should "cap" his/her account with a £50 limit and ask for a £50 security deposit, if the customer doesn't pay for one month then the service is cut off.

You see Cyta couldn't really ask it's customers back in 1994 if they had bank accounts because 12 years ago when GSM was introduced not many people had them. It would have stymied the growth of GSM at a time when people where so ignorant they where paying 90cents a minute to the USA and 50cents per minute to the UK.

Does anyone know if areeba asks for security deposits?

[coredump]

Areeba asks 100 pounds deposit for subscription with disabled international (and roaming?) calls plus 300 pounds if you want international calls to be enabled. Also they do not care if you own real estate (like Cyta does - if you own real estate they do not ask for deposit).

[devil]

If you have a landline to your purchased property, CYTA requires no deposit: I haven't paid them a penny, either for landline or mobile. You have to take them the land registry deeds or the sales contract as proof of ownership. They require a deposit if you have rented property or, I think, if you have only a mobile with no landline.