Cyprus-Forum.com

[crumpy]

Jerry wrote "The Greek Cypriots pay to rebuild the town ... and then Turkey takes it back". That is very unlikely to happen ... provided, that is, you can behave yourselves this time.

[Viewpoint]

The how do you account for the extreme enosis support we read on this forum, isnt this the exposure of the true feelings of the majority of GCs who conceal their real thoughts when faced with meeting TCs face to face?

[wyoming cowboy]

The how do you account for the extreme enosis support we read on this forum, isnt this the exposure of the true feelings of the majority of GCs who conceal their real thoughts when faced with meeting TCs face to face?

Enosis today has been achieved through the Eu, and thats good enough for the Greek cyps. Dont get me wrong, the Gc have been pulverized with some brainwashing of their own in the past and even today to some degree.

Back in the day when I was 5/6 years old,circa 71/72 the family decided to go on a trip,from kyrenia to the fountains/baths of Aphrodite in Paphos. Along the way my uncle decided to stop at a convienience store in a village which must have been either Tc or mixed GC/TC, to buy cigarettes. I immediately jump out of the car and head into the store to look for the cola cooler. I see it and stick my hand in to pick out a cola to quench my thirst. I remember the cola had yellow letters on it. Out of nowhere my aunt Athena, comes and grabs the cola out of my hand places it back in the cooler, grabs me by the hand and leads me back into the car. She begins to scold me that the cola I picked out was TC made cola and that it could be poisoned. For what it seemed to be 15 minutes of a stern lecture and being told to stop shaking my head her attention turned elsewhere. Finally we arrived at Aphrodite's bath house in Paphos, again my Aunt Athena grabs me by the hand leads me to the bath and proceeds to wash my face with Aphrodite's bath water, so that I would stay good looking she said. A few hours earlier i was not allowed to drink Tc made cola, but now my face was being washed with Aphrodite's 3000 year old bath water, go figure. As you can see prejudices were abound in both communities, and those prejudices were/are both wrong.

[Viewpoint]

The how do you account for the extreme enosis support we read on this forum, isnt this the exposure of the true feelings of the majority of GCs who conceal their real thoughts when faced with meeting TCs face to face?

Enosis today has been achieved through the Eu, and thats good enough for the Greek cyps. Dont get me wrong, the Gc have been pulverized with some brainwashing of their own in the past and even today to some degree.

Back in the day when I was 5/6 years old,circa 71/72 the family decided to go on a trip,from kyrenia to the fountains/baths of Aphrodite in Paphos. Along the way my uncle decided to stop at a convienience store in a village which must have been either Tc or mixed GC/TC, to buy cigarettes. I immediately jump out of the car and head into the store to look for the cola cooler. I see it and stick my hand in to pick out a cola to quench my thirst. I remember the cola had yellow letters on it. Out of nowhere my aunt Athena, comes and grabs the cola out of my hand places it back in the cooler, grabs me by the hand and leads me back into the car. She begins to scold me that the cola I picked out was TC made cola and that it could be poisoned. For what it seemed to be 15 minutes of a stern lecture and being told to stop shaking my head her attention turned elsewhere. Finally we arrived at Aphrodite's bath house in Paphos, again my Aunt Athena grabs me by the hand leads me to the bath and proceeds to wash my face with Aphrodite's bath water, so that I would stay good looking she said. A few hours earlier i was not allowed to drink Tc made cola, but now my face was being washed with Aphrodite's 3000 year old bath water, go figure. As you can see prejudices were abound in both communities, and those prejudices were/are both wrong.

What does it change? both sides lived through aspects which today are deemed stupid but the fact remains that our past has molded our future, we do not trust each other and do not want to expose a side of us that could be manipulated and used to lose out to the other side. This is a common mindset and is fueled by many GCs on this forum. You confirm time and time again that you are not to be trusted and even if we wanted to unite there should multiple guarantees and enough security so that neither side may try to out do the other side and take control of the whole island.

Why can we not just have two states where everyone can roam freely reside where they wish either under a GC or TC administration? why do you want to force that the whole island be under GC domination where we are reduced to minority status...why?

[wyoming cowboy]

The how do you account for the extreme enosis support we read on this forum, isnt this the exposure of the true feelings of the majority of GCs who conceal their real thoughts when faced with meeting TCs face to face?

Enosis today has been achieved through the Eu, and thats good enough for the Greek cyps. Dont get me wrong, the Gc have been pulverized with some brainwashing of their own in the past and even today to some degree.

Back in the day when I was 5/6 years old,circa 71/72 the family decided to go on a trip,from kyrenia to the fountains/baths of Aphrodite in Paphos. Along the way my uncle decided to stop at a convienience store in a village which must have been either Tc or mixed GC/TC, to buy cigarettes. I immediately jump out of the car and head into the store to look for the cola cooler. I see it and stick my hand in to pick out a cola to quench my thirst. I remember the cola had yellow letters on it. Out of nowhere my aunt Athena, comes and grabs the cola out of my hand places it back in the cooler, grabs me by the hand and leads me back into the car. She begins to scold me that the cola I picked out was TC made cola and that it could be poisoned. For what it seemed to be 15 minutes of a stern lecture and being told to stop shaking my head her attention turned elsewhere. Finally we arrived at Aphrodite's bath house in Paphos, again my Aunt Athena grabs me by the hand leads me to the bath and proceeds to wash my face with Aphrodite's bath water, so that I would stay good looking she said. A few hours earlier i was not allowed to drink Tc made cola, but now my face was being washed with Aphrodite's 3000 year old bath water, go figure. As you can see prejudices were abound in both communities, and those prejudices were/are both wrong.

What does it change? both sides lived through aspects which today are deemed stupid but the fact remains that our past has molded our future, we do not trust each other and do not want to expose a side of us that could be manipulated and used to lose out to the other side. This is a common mindset and is fueled by many GCs on this forum. You confirm time and time again that you are not to be trusted and even if we wanted to unite there should multiple guarantees and enough security so that neither side may try to out do the other side and take control of the whole island.

Why can we not just have two states where everyone can roam freely reside where they wish either under a GC or TC administration? why do you want to force that the whole island be under GC domination where we are reduced to minority status...why?

Under a Federal system of government where there are two states and one federal government, the situation will change a few degrees from what it looks like today. The tc will have their own state, with its own constitution and flag, as will the gc state. the federal government will be composed of gc/tc as proportioned by their populations, the two states will not be able to conduct independent foreign policies, nor control the ports. thats the federal governments job. each state can tax its own people, the fed will tax both. There will be freedom of movement for both peoples and a right to own and start businesses anywhere they want. In essence the tc will probably not be a minority in their own state, but will have to abide by the majorities will in the federal government concerning foreign affairs and ports/airspace. thats the gist of it

[Viewpoint]

And the risks? if you were a TCs what in your opinion would be the down fall of such an agreement? how would the TCs be exposed to GC domination?

[Kikapu]

Why can we not just have two states where everyone can roam freely reside where they wish either under a GC or TC administration? why do you want to force that the whole island be under GC domination where we are reduced to minority status...why?

Because for one, the TCs and settlers (Turkey) does not own the north and neither does the GCs own the south for them to have their own independent states. Secondly, you are not trusted to have a True Democracy where everyone's rights will be protected, specially the minorities. Look at the Racist so called constitution of the "trnc" you have in the north for God sake which you support. Turkey's own constitution is barely better than the one in the north. Add to the north not wanting to be in the EU, the north will be nothing but a a state run by Fascists and the Mafia. This is not what your average decent TCs want. This is what Fascists like you want, so stop with your crocodile tears about safeguards for the TCs under a True Federation what Cowboy is talking about. A True Federation and EU Principles is all the safeguard the TCs will need. They will have ZERO safeguards under a Mafia state in the north which is what Fascists like you want.Under your kind of 2 states, anyone who is not a Fascists will not have their rights protected. In fact, they won't have hardly any rights.

[Viewpoint]

Why can we not just have two states where everyone can roam freely reside where they wish either under a GC or TC administration? why do you want to force that the whole island be under GC domination where we are reduced to minority status...why?

Because for one, the TCs and settlers (Turkey) does not own the north and neither does the GCs own the south for them to have their own independent states. Secondly, you are not trusted to have a True Democracy where everyone's rights will be protected, specially the minorities. Look at the Racist so called constitution of the "trnc" you have in the north for God sake which you support. Turkey's own constitution is barely better than the one in the north. Add to the north not wanting to be in the EU, the north will be nothing but a a state run by Fascists and the Mafia. This is not what your average decent TCs want. This is what Fascists like you want, so stop with your crocodile tears about safeguards for the TCs under a True Federation what Cowboy is talking about. A True Federation and EU Principles is all the safeguard the TCs will need. They will have ZERO safeguards under a Mafia state in the north which is what Fascists like you want.Under your kind of 2 states, anyone who is not a Fascists will not have their rights protected. In fact, they won't have hardly any rights.

We all know what your version of "A True Federation and EU Principles" is a sell out, we read your plan and your were found out. your only aim is to surrender the TCs to the mercy of the GCs, so go peddle your crooked "surgeon" elsewhere.

[Kikapu]

Why can we not just have two states where everyone can roam freely reside where they wish either under a GC or TC administration? why do you want to force that the whole island be under GC domination where we are reduced to minority status...why?

Because for one, the TCs and settlers (Turkey) does not own the north and neither does the GCs own the south for them to have their own independent states. Secondly, you are not trusted to have a True Democracy where everyone's rights will be protected, specially the minorities. Look at the Racist so called constitution of the "trnc" you have in the north for God sake which you support. Turkey's own constitution is barely better than the one in the north. Add to the north not wanting to be in the EU, the north will be nothing but a a state run by Fascists and the Mafia. This is not what your average decent TCs want. This is what Fascists like you want, so stop with your crocodile tears about safeguards for the TCs under a True Federation what Cowboy is talking about. A True Federation and EU Principles is all the safeguard the TCs will need. They will have ZERO safeguards under a Mafia state in the north which is what Fascists like you want.Under your kind of 2 states, anyone who is not a Fascists will not have their rights protected. In fact, they won't have hardly any rights.

We all know what your version of "A True Federation and EU Principles" is a sell out, we read your plan and your were found out. your only aim is to surrender the TCs to the mercy of the GCs, so go peddle your crooked "surgeon" elsewhere.

Thank you for proving my point. The whole western Democratic world lives by the principles I set out in my BBF plan for Cyprus and for all Cypriots. Only Fascists like you who at present lives under a Racist constitution is against such Democratic values enjoyed by the whole western world. You were found out long time ago as to the one who ONLY support Racist and Fascistic policies. No wonder you love Turkey so much.

[bill cobbett]

Under a Federal system of government where there are two states and one federal government, the situation will change a few degrees from what it looks like today. The tc will have their own state, with its own constitution and flag, as will the gc state. the federal government will be composed of gc/tc as proportioned by their populations, the two states will not be able to conduct independent foreign policies, nor control the ports. thats the federal governments job. each state can tax its own people, the fed will tax both. There will be freedom of movement for both peoples and a right to own and start businesses anywhere they want. In essence the tc will probably not be a minority in their own state, but will have to abide by the majorities will in the federal government concerning foreign affairs and ports/airspace. thats the gist of it

Very decent précis of the federal system of government WC.

Unfortunately the Illegal Regime and its supporters like VP take the word "state" and run with it to the extent that it becomes the word "country" and add to it such rubbish as rights to self-determination to further their aim of apartheid segregation and let's not beat about the bush, to prepare for a future secession. Well they've def got a proven and consistent track record of self-segregation (to put it politely) and aspirations to a separate State.