Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

The turbines are not useless but produce only when the wind is there. An added source of power to the grid, just like nuclear, hydropower, diesel, solar etc.
All these sources are connected to the grid and are switched on-off according to the demand. At Vasilikos power plant, 5 generators are present but only 2 or 3 or 4 or all are running to satisfy demand. So while only 3 are running, this does not mean the others are useless.

As the wind farms expand more power is fed to the grid so less generator units are running at Vasilikos... cutting down on CO2 and pollution.

Unless we come up with an alternative source of energy, more and more renewable energy systems will gain ground due to less and less fossil fuel availability.
As for your favorable nuclear power, have in mind that uranium deposits are depleting as fast as the fossil fuels.

But we need electricity when it is windy and also when it is calm…

Wind is a poor choice as an energy source because it is so unreliable.

With wind, you pay twice, once for the wind-far and once again for the backup capacity to provide energy when there is no wind.

Unfortunately, the backup capacity cannot be turned on and off instantaneously so we have to have backup generating capacity running at inefficient levels even when it is windy. The result is that more CO2 is produced than running ‘conventional’ generating capacity at its most efficient levels.

Wind farms are only popular because of the huge subsidies they attract – many in the UK get more cash from subsidies than the vale of the electricity they produce…

If wind power was going to work it would have done so by now – but it hasn’t. Fortunately, many are beginning to see through this green scam and even governments in these times of austerity are beginning to re-think.

I give wind five years at most.

[CBBB]

Nuclear fusion is on the way, we won't need any of the other crap once this process is perfected.

[GreekIslandGirl]

For the past three days the huge wind farm opposite my house has been standing idle... No wind you see.

They probably thought you might be a good source.

Seriously, you cannot go around complaining over the lack of wind for just three days! It's all about using as many natural resources as possible. The wind is just another free factor, when it's available. It's not a 'stand-alone'.

Go on - go outside and rant a little and get those wind-turbines moving.

[kurupetos]

Nuclear fusion is on the way, we won't need any of the other crap once this process is perfected.

WTF! Are you sober?

Excellent idea though. Thanks.

[georgios100]

The turbines are not useless but produce only when the wind is there. An added source of power to the grid, just like nuclear, hydropower, diesel, solar etc.
All these sources are connected to the grid and are switched on-off according to the demand. At Vasilikos power plant, 5 generators are present but only 2 or 3 or 4 or all are running to satisfy demand. So while only 3 are running, this does not mean the others are useless.

As the wind farms expand more power is fed to the grid so less generator units are running at Vasilikos... cutting down on CO2 and pollution.

Unless we come up with an alternative source of energy, more and more renewable energy systems will gain ground due to less and less fossil fuel availability.
As for your favorable nuclear power, have in mind that uranium deposits are depleting as fast as the fossil fuels.

But we need electricity when it is windy and also when it is calm…

Wind is a poor choice as an energy source because it is so unreliable.

With wind, you pay twice, once for the wind-far and once again for the backup capacity to provide energy when there is no wind.

Unfortunately, the backup capacity cannot be turned on and off instantaneously so we have to have backup generating capacity running at inefficient levels even when it is windy. The result is that more CO2 is produced than running ‘conventional’ generating capacity at its most efficient levels.

Wind farms are only popular because of the huge subsidies they attract – many in the UK get more cash from subsidies than the vale of the electricity they produce…

If wind power was going to work it would have done so by now – but it hasn’t. Fortunately, many are beginning to see through this green scam and even governments in these times of austerity are beginning to re-think.

I give wind five years at most.

There are always going to be the conspiracy theories against wind power being a scam, fraud, money making schemes etc.
As you know, the conspiracy advocates go as far as to say, Man never landed on the Moon... I presume you are one of those people... well, you have every right to do so, no problem here.

Time will tell. What I believe is that wind power has come a bit early into the rink, being a more expensive energy source than conventional ones and in need of subsidies to sustain & promote it. Wind power is a promising one. Unlike an "unreliable source of power" as you say, I beg to differ. As a matter of fact, wind power is very reliable. Wind will always be there for the next 10 million years. Fossil fuels will not be there in just a few decades. Obviously, on the long run, fossil fuels are not reliable.

I assume your home is near the turbines site. Next week I'll be in Cyprus on a 2 week visit. Planning to play a couple of rounds of golf at the Hidden Valley & Aphrodite hills. Will PM you which day exactly I plan to play. I would be happy to have a beer or two with you at the clubhouse. A rare occasion to meet and sort out all the issues. Of course, having a nice time is the real objective.

Till then, always a pleasure talking to you.

[Sotos]

Here is a talk from a guy that lost 150 million in wind farms and says that Natural Gas is the way forward. He also supports Nuclear ... but he says that it should not be on earthquake zones (obviously!!). Seems like there is a lot of Natural Gas around... maybe by the time we extract ours the price of Natural Gas will be much lower On the other hand maybe there will be more infrastructure for using natural gas instead of oil and that would mean more demand for NG

[cyprusgrump]

Here is a talk from a guy that lost 150 million in wind farms and says that Natural Gas is the way forward. He also supports Nuclear ... but he says that it should not be on earthquake zones (obviously!!). Seems like there is a lot of Natural Gas around... maybe by the time we extract ours the price of Natural Gas will be much lower On the other hand maybe there will be more infrastructure for using natural gas instead of oil and that would mean more demand for NG

An excellent presentation...

The Americans see cheap fuel and real reductions in CO2 due to shale gas.

Meanwhile, in the UK the government is remarkably reluctant to explore shale gas deposits near Blackpool - presumably because of arbitrary 'Green Energy' targets imposed by the EU.

Until we wake up to the green scam and ridiculous green energy targets imposed by the EU we'll be paying more for our energy than the Americans and ignoring the vast reserves literally under our feet.

[cyprusgrump]

For the past three days the huge wind farm opposite my house has been standing idle... No wind you see.

They probably thought you might be a good source.

Seriously, you cannot go around complaining over the lack of wind for just three days! It's all about using as many natural resources as possible. The wind is just another free factor, when it's available. It's not a 'stand-alone'.

Go on - go outside and rant a little and get those wind-turbines moving.

It is a common misconception that wind is in some way 'free'...

Apart from the thousands of tonnes of concrete and steel, apart from the rare earth magnets that cause terrible pollution during manufacture, apart from the transport costs for sending them half way round the world and apart from the costs of providing grid connections to some of the remotest parts of the country... apart from all of those things.... The real reason that wind is not free is that you can't rely on it.

As I've said in my earlier posts, when the wind is not blowing you have to have 'conventional' generating capacity to provide the electricity instead.

When the wind blows, you can't just switch off that conventional capacity. It doesn't stop. You have to keep it running in 'standby' mode, still burning fossil fuels so that it is ready to step in when the wind stops again.

Some larger plants can take days to shut down and start up again...

This leads to the utter madness of wind farms being paid not to produce electricity.

So in fact you wend up paying twice for your electricity - once for the generation and once to not have it generated.

As yourself a simple question - if wind is free, why is there a renewable energy charge on my electricity bill?

[cyprusgrump]

The turbines are not useless but produce only when the wind is there. An added source of power to the grid, just like nuclear, hydropower, diesel, solar etc.
All these sources are connected to the grid and are switched on-off according to the demand. At Vasilikos power plant, 5 generators are present but only 2 or 3 or 4 or all are running to satisfy demand. So while only 3 are running, this does not mean the others are useless.

As the wind farms expand more power is fed to the grid so less generator units are running at Vasilikos... cutting down on CO2 and pollution.

Unless we come up with an alternative source of energy, more and more renewable energy systems will gain ground due to less and less fossil fuel availability.
As for your favorable nuclear power, have in mind that uranium deposits are depleting as fast as the fossil fuels.

But we need electricity when it is windy and also when it is calm…

Wind is a poor choice as an energy source because it is so unreliable.

With wind, you pay twice, once for the wind-far and once again for the backup capacity to provide energy when there is no wind.

Unfortunately, the backup capacity cannot be turned on and off instantaneously so we have to have backup generating capacity running at inefficient levels even when it is windy. The result is that more CO2 is produced than running ‘conventional’ generating capacity at its most efficient levels.

Wind farms are only popular because of the huge subsidies they attract – many in the UK get more cash from subsidies than the vale of the electricity they produce…

If wind power was going to work it would have done so by now – but it hasn’t. Fortunately, many are beginning to see through this green scam and even governments in these times of austerity are beginning to re-think.

I give wind five years at most.

There are always going to be the conspiracy theories against wind power being a scam, fraud, money making schemes etc.
As you know, the conspiracy advocates go as far as to say, Man never landed on the Moon... I presume you are one of those people... well, you have every right to do so, no problem here.

Time will tell. What I believe is that wind power has come a bit early into the rink, being a more expensive energy source than conventional ones and in need of subsidies to sustain & promote it. Wind power is a promising one. Unlike an "unreliable source of power" as you say, I beg to differ. As a matter of fact, wind power is very reliable. Wind will always be there for the next 10 million years. Fossil fuels will not be there in just a few decades. Obviously, on the long run, fossil fuels are not reliable.

I assume your home is near the turbines site. Next week I'll be in Cyprus on a 2 week visit. Planning to play a couple of rounds of golf at the Hidden Valley & Aphrodite hills. Will PM you which day exactly I plan to play. I would be happy to have a beer or two with you at the clubhouse. A rare occasion to meet and sort out all the issues. Of course, having a nice time is the real objective.

Till then, always a pleasure talking to you.

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm disappointed that you would suggest so....

The facts about wind are readily available to anybody that has a mind to look. I have such a mind and have explored the true costs of wind and it is utterly shocking.

Luckily, as I said earlier, the money is running out in these tough times and while wind will continue for a while (because of all the contracts that have been signed already) we are seeing the beginning of the end for wind. Of course, as it is your business I would be most surprised if you agreed whatever your own personal thoughts are on the matter.

As for fossil fuels, we've been at 'peak oil' being reached ever since I was a kid. Yet we still keep finding new oil reserves and new techniques for extracting oil from old reserves. And now, fracking shows us that there are vast amounts of (relatively) clean fossil fuel available literally under our feet. Indeed, fracking may be the last nail in the coffin of wind...

You can still buy me a beer tho...

[georgios100]

The idea of paying twice for our electricity generated is simply not true.
The idea that it takes days to shut down a power plant or part of it is false.
The CO2 footprint for wind power is much smaller than conventional power plants footprints.
The idea that 50 developed countries are scammed into green energy is ridiculous.
Fossil fuel exploration/usage cannot be sustained forever.

Technically, power generation consists of:
1. Prime mover
2. Generator motor.
3. Transformers.
4. Associated controls.

Either we look at wind or diesel or coal or NG of nuclear the above items remain the same except item No. 1. The prime mover.
Items 2, 3 & 4 are the same. Item 2 is powered by item 1. It really does not matter what is item 1.

Furthermore, power plants always have many "sets" of the above items. These sets can be switched on/off at the flick of a switch which take a second or two, not days (as Grump thinks).

To explain this in plain English, let's assume we have 10 sets of wind turbines and 10 sets of diesel generators. The system is designed to give priority to wind as the first prime mover. All 10 turbines are on line while some of the diesel units are on, to satisfy demand. Idling a diesel unit... never happens. You either run it or don't run it.

So, more wind turbines mean less conventional generators. Plain and simple.