Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

The counter declaration has absolutely no legal value. A lot of energy spent for nothing while the negotiation framework for Turkey should have been the main target. Our euphoria reminds one of a Nasredin Hoca tale.

Nasredin convince a wretched villager to house all his animals in his room for the winter. Soon the villager had no space and began to suffer. So, he turned to the wise Nasredin for more advice. Take the donkey out, he duly adviced the villager. So he did, and a sigh of relief was heard from him. This is our governments euphoria for the counter declaration which in essence legalises the non recognition of turkey of the RoC. It does so because it followed Turkey's move.

[realcypriot]

That sounds like an interesting story, but I don't see how it relates to this issue. The fact of the matter is that the EU counter-declaration is merely a way of conveying to Ankara what is expected of her. It is not designed to scare her away, although this is a possibility.

Staring from October 3rd, Turkey will begin long and arduous negotiations with the EU, and the fuss over this counter-declaration is nothing compared to what the EU will be asking Ankara to do. There are all sorts of issues that arise.

By the way, Bananiot, don't you think that your Denktash quote proves just how intransigent and anti-solutionist he really is?

[Bananiot]

Of course Denktash is anti solution, at least he is against the only solution that is possible to be achieved, ie Bicommunal, Bizonal Federation. This is why he was so dead against the Annan Plan.

Regarding the counter declaration, the fact that the EE found it necessary to respond to Ankara's declaration, in a way, gives legitimacy to the Turkish claim that Turkey will recognise the RoC only after it completes the negotiation process that might take 15 or more years. Where does this leave the solution to our problem? In the doldrums, apparently. We should be concentrating on the solution not on declarations and counter declarations because this is what is hurting us. Unless we don't give twopence for the solution ...

[Kifeas]

The counter declaration has absolutely no legal value. A lot of energy spent for nothing while the negotiation framework for Turkey should have been the main target. Our euphoria reminds one of a Nasredin Hoca tale.

Nasredin convince a wretched villager to house all his animals in his room for the winter. Soon the villager had no space and began to suffer. So, he turned to the wise Nasredin for more advice. Take the donkey out, he duly adviced the villager. So he did, and a sigh of relief was heard from him. This is our governments euphoria for the counter declaration which in essence legalises the non recognition of turkey of the RoC. It does so because it followed Turkey's move.

Bananiot,
For once reed your self from your antagonizing opposition fury and accept that the outcome was a major success of Papadopoullos government.

The value of the counter-declaration is not a legal one. We have plenty of such decisions and declarations of legal value. We need no more! The value of the counter declaration is a political one. The political value of this declaration is huge and enormous!

[Viewpoint]

The counter declaration has absolutely no legal value. A lot of energy spent for nothing while the negotiation framework for Turkey should have been the main target. Our euphoria reminds one of a Nasredin Hoca tale.

Nasredin convince a wretched villager to house all his animals in his room for the winter. Soon the villager had no space and began to suffer. So, he turned to the wise Nasredin for more advice. Take the donkey out, he duly adviced the villager. So he did, and a sigh of relief was heard from him. This is our governments euphoria for the counter declaration which in essence legalises the non recognition of turkey of the RoC. It does so because it followed Turkey's move.

Bananiot,
For once reed your self from your antagonizing opposition fury and accept that the outcome was a major success of Papadopoullos government.

The value of the counter-declaration is not a legal one. We have plenty of such decisions and declarations of legal value. We need no more! The value of the counter declaration is a political one. The political value of this declaration is huge and enormous!

Could you kindly explian to us lesser mortals what it will bring in terms a solution, avoiding the opening of ports to GCs issue.

[Kifeas]

Bananiot,
For once reed your self from your antagonizing opposition fury and accept that the outcome was a major success of Papadopoullos government.

The value of the counter-declaration is not a legal one. We have plenty of such decisions and declarations of legal value. We need no more! The value of the counter declaration is a political one. The political value of this declaration is huge and enormous!

Could you kindly explian to us lesser mortals what it will bring in terms a solution, avoiding the opening of ports to GCs issue.

Can you clarify the second part of your question?

[Kifeas]

Regarding the counter declaration, the fact that the EE found it necessary to respond to Ankara's declaration, in a way, gives legitimacy to the Turkish claim that Turkey will recognise the RoC only after it completes the negotiation process that might take 15 or more years. Where does this leave the solution to our problem? In the doldrums, apparently. We should be concentrating on the solution not on declarations and counter declarations because this is what is hurting us. Unless we don't give twopence for the solution ...

The counter-declaration specifies that recognition of all member states is a necessary ingredient of the negotiating process. Can you explain to us how do you reach to this above wild conclusion?

A side note: The negotiating process begins on the 3rd of October and will continue until all the negotiation chapters will be satisfactory closed. Each one of 36 chapters opens upon a decision of all the member states and closes upon a decision again of all member states.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot,
For once reed your self from your antagonizing opposition fury and accept that the outcome was a major success of Papadopoullos government.

The value of the counter-declaration is not a legal one. We have plenty of such decisions and declarations of legal value. We need no more! The value of the counter declaration is a political one. The political value of this declaration is huge and enormous!

Could you kindly explian to us lesser mortals what it will bring in terms a solution, avoiding the opening of ports to GCs issue.

Can you clarify the second part of your question?

The second point refers to the fact that Turkey is obliged to open its ports in 2006, what I am interested in as to how this declaration which although not legally binding but provides us with the EU perspective will help solve the Cyprus issue, in the short to medium term. The accession process being open ended means that recognition of the "RoC" is also open ended. Is this the aim of linking the 2??? Im just trying to get a few GC perspectives on how this move will help?

[Bananiot]

Kifeas wrote

Bananiot,
For once reed your self from your antagonizing opposition fury and accept that the outcome was a major success of Papadopoullos government.

Its plain tough luck that the criticism against the content of the counter declaration comes mainly from at least two of the parties in Papadopoulos coalition government. Of course no Kifeas can accuse them of exhibiting antagonising opposition fury. I say, better leave the wooden-language party jargon aside and look at these so called political gains of Papadopoulos.

I put it to you that Cyprus gained zero from this counter declaration. When I say Cyprus, I mean all of us that dream of a solution to the Cyprob. I mean the forces of solution. In fact the process has been dealt a serious blow by the counter declaration. I am not surprised. This is what Papadopoulos wants, because he does not want a solution! From this point of view, yes, Papadopoulos can feel quite happy about his achievement.

Let us look at the facts. Turkey made a unilateral statement (declaration) and the EU makes a counter declaration which in itself is unique. It has never happened before in the history of EU. The unilateral declaration of Turkey had (has) no legal value and we all agree on this. All the EU had to do was to ignore it and insist on the implementation of the protocol by Turkey.

Why the hell did we need a counter declaration? Why did we take at face value the unilateral declaration of Turkey? Don't we give legitimacy to it by answering it with a counter declaration with an ambiguous content which can be translated almost at will? Does the counter declaration which was written because of the no recognition cry of Turkey refer to the sticky issue of recognition? No, it does not! Probably, and mark my words, the counter declaration will be used by Turkey in order to avoid recognition of the RoC.

Professor Ioakeimides of Athens University says that Greece and Cyprus should has insisted for a plain simple statement from the EU which would stress that the EU needs complete implementation of the Protocol signed by Turkey. Greece, says Ioakeimides, should have focused its efforts for the negotiation of an Helsinki-type packet for the european management of the Greco-turkish issues. This could have happened within the framework of the negotiations for the general framework of the accession negotiations with Turkey.

Thus, by insisting on the counter declaration, we have missed this opportunity and probably served the interests of countries such as France and Austria, conveniently forgetting that our most pressing issue is the solution of OUR problem.

Bottom line. Either Papadopoulos is thick or he does not want to further the solution process. I beleive the second is correct and his antics of today differ not an iota from his antics of the past when he was christened Mr rejectionist.

[BirKibrisli]

This is how it looks to me folks.
The declaration by Turkey was a face saving exercise firstly,and secondly a way of keeping the TCs and the Turkish Army happy.
The counter-declaration by the EU was just a face saving exercise.
They couldn't let Turkey get away with showing them the finger.
The counter declaration has given Turkey a huge leeway.She can insist on discussing all the 36 negotiation chapters before even thinking about recognising the RoC. I am beginning to think that Erdogan is really cunning as a fox. He doesn't really want to join the EU but it won't be him who walks away from the club.He will quitely open the ports to GC vessels and remove any trade barriers,knowing that he is covered by his original declaration of not recognising the RoC.No solution will happen in Cyprus for at least 15 years while negotiations take place,and when the crunch time comes he will walk away saying it is not in Turkey's national interest to recognise Cyprus.It will be the fault of Cyprus and the EU,which is after all a Christian club that doesn't want to admit poor moslem Turkey.End of story,permanent partition in Cyprus,and an Islamic hero- making in the process.I cry for my poor Cyprus.