Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

It’s pointless in arguing over what we’re not privy to because no matter how many videos you watch you’ll never know the exact location of the downing.

Turkey will now doctor whatever she likes to justify her actions just as she doctored a Syrian attack in Hatay some months ago and in the end was exposed and riots broke out.

[kimon07]

The Turks and Syrians know exactly where the helicopter went. The Turks would have tracked it by radar and vectored their intercept aircraft right onto their target.

You must be joking. Haven't you seen the videos? Syrian opposition were dancing over the wreckage minutes after it crashed. It was still burning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIJX0Qrgxs

Yes I am very serious kimon!

The video does not prove a thing so I do not understand how you can be so adament.

The rebels are also on the Turkish side of the border which explains quite a lot.

What on earth are you trying to say? That the wreckage shown in the vid might be on Turkish ground? And the Turkish authorities did not go there to investigate but allowed the Syrian rebels to do it for them?

Common sense kimon! If the Turks did it to avenge the Phantom, then they would have gone after a MIG not a helicopter.

Where the hell would they find a Syrian MIG to shoot down?

[Paphitis]

The Turks and Syrians know exactly where the helicopter went. The Turks would have tracked it by radar and vectored their intercept aircraft right onto their target.

You must be joking. Haven't you seen the videos? Syrian opposition were dancing over the wreckage minutes after it crashed. It was still burning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIJX0Qrgxs

Yes I am very serious kimon!

The video does not prove a thing so I do not understand how you can be so adament.

The rebels are also on the Turkish side of the border which explains quite a lot.

What on earth are you trying to say? That the wreckage shown in the vid might be on Turkish ground? And the Turkish authorities did not go there to investigate but allowed the Syrian rebels to do it for them?

Common sense kimon! If the Turks did it to avenge the Phantom, then they would have gone after a MIG not a helicopter.

Where the hell would they find a Syrian MIG to shoot down?

What I am saying kimon is that it is not unlikely that the helicopter violated Turkish Airspace and were in the area attacking Rebels on the Turkish side of border as well.

The video is no proof of your insinuations whatsoever. The Turks might have very well shot the helicopter down in Syrian Airspace, but that is not to say that it was not engaged from within their airspace. The pursuit does not cease at the Turkish Border. You would be naive to believe that it would. I am also highlighting you showcasing your stupidity because not long ago you were rejoicing over the fact that a Turkish Phantom was shot down.

You also mention Turkish vengeance. The Turks would prefer a higher value target if that were the case and they will find that target wherever they can get it, including deep within Syrian Airspace.

[kimon07]

........Syrian opposition were dancing over the wreckage minutes after it crashed. It was still burning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIJX0Qrgxs

The Al Nusra jihadist pigs beheaded the dead pilot of the helicopter.
(VIDEO)
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/item/% ... E%AD%CF%82

[kimon07]

Muslim claims Ankara has hand in atrocities of extremists in Syria

16 September 2013 /TODAY'S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL

Saleh Muslim, leader of the largest Kurdish faction in Syria, has accused Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) of having a hand in the atrocities committed by extremist groups who are fighting against the regime in Syria.

…….. “On the one hand you are having talks with us. While on the other, you set your dogs on us. Pull yourself together. We will defend ourselves with our own free will and will be victorious,” Muslim was reported as saying by the Taraf daily as he targeted Erdoğan during an addressing in Stockholm.

……..Muslim paid a two-day official visit to Turkey for the first time in late July when Ankara said it would not take any part in the ongoing fighting between Kurdish groups and al-Qaeda-linked radical groups for control of the northern Syrian towns bordering Turkey. Turkish officials have also had talks with Muslim in Cairo at least once.

...........Muslim, speaking during a speech he delivered at a cultural festival in Stockholm on Sunday, said beheading people and biting into their hearts in the 21st century were products of a culture that prevailed 1,500 years ago and claimed that Erdoğan had a hand in such atrocities. The PYD leader said violent and barbaric thugs had launched massacres against Syrian civilians.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-326551- ... syria.html

[Kikapu]

Fell in Syrian airspace. Pilots ejected in Syrian airspace. So why did the Turks shoot it in Syrian airspace?

Strong northerly winds perhaps!

Probably the helicopter's warning system alerted the pilots of the incoming missile fired from some 10-12 km away. So they start heading towards Syria before ejecting. A helicopter as such crusing at 125 knots would cover the 2 km in 30 seconds before being hit on Syrian side. If they had no radar warning about an incoming missile what chance did they have of ejecting in time? In any case, voice recordings of the warnings by Turkish airspace control to the helicopter as it approached and entered the Turkish airspace that had no response from the helicopter pilots are also on record. If the Syrians want to accuse anyone of an illegal attack, let them find the black box of the helicopter and hand it over to UN!

So bigOz, taking your above figures at face value, (a big mistake, I know), what you are telling us is, that the missile(s) fired by Turkish jets from about 10-12 km from it's target, the Syrian helicopter 2 km within Turkey's airspace from the border, and once the helicopter pilots detected missile(s) coming, they made a run for it at 125 knots/hr to get back into Syrian airspace, but since the helicopter was hit by the missile(s) within 1 km on Syrian territory from the Turkish border, then the helicopter would have had to fly 45 seconds to cover the 3 km from the time it had detected missile(s) coming it's way. The problem with your figures is, air to air missiles generally have a average speed of about Mach 3, or about 3,700 km/hr, or 2,300 mph, meaning, for the missile(s) to cover the 10-12 km range from it's target, the Syrian helicopter 2 km into Turkish airspace, it would have taken about 12 seconds at most, which means that the Syrian helicopter would have been hit at least 1 km in Turkish airspace the fallen helicopter would have crashed on Turkish territory, but in actuality, it crashed 2 km away in the Syrian territory 1 km from the Turkish border on Syrian territory.

And your explanation is what exactly as to how this could have happened?

[GreekIslandGirl]

So who supplied the Sarin gas then? Does anyone know? Surely the UN would have been able to carry out tests to say which country manufactured it.

[Paphitis]

Fell in Syrian airspace. Pilots ejected in Syrian airspace. So why did the Turks shoot it in Syrian airspace?

Strong northerly winds perhaps!

Probably the helicopter's warning system alerted the pilots of the incoming missile fired from some 10-12 km away. So they start heading towards Syria before ejecting. A helicopter as such crusing at 125 knots would cover the 2 km in 30 seconds before being hit on Syrian side. If they had no radar warning about an incoming missile what chance did they have of ejecting in time? In any case, voice recordings of the warnings by Turkish airspace control to the helicopter as it approached and entered the Turkish airspace that had no response from the helicopter pilots are also on record. If the Syrians want to accuse anyone of an illegal attack, let them find the black box of the helicopter and hand it over to UN!

So bigOz, taking your above figures at face value, (a big mistake, I know), what you are telling us is, that the missile(s) fired by Turkish jets from about 10-12 km from it's target, the Syrian helicopter 2 km within Turkey's airspace from the border, and once the helicopter pilots detected missile(s) coming, they made a run for it at 125 knots/hr to get back into Syrian airspace, but since the helicopter was hit by the missile(s) within 1 km on Syrian territory from the Turkish border, then the helicopter would have had to fly 45 seconds to cover the 3 km from the time it had detected missile(s) coming it's way. The problem with your figures is, air to air missiles generally have a average speed of about Mach 3, or about 3,700 km/hr, or 2,300 mph, meaning, for the missile(s) to cover the 10-12 km range from it's target, the Syrian helicopter 2 km into Turkish airspace, it would have taken about 12 seconds at most, which means that the Syrian helicopter would have been hit at least 1 km in Turkish airspace the fallen helicopter would have crashed on Turkish territory, but in actuality, it crashed 2 km away in the Syrian territory 1 km from the Turkish border on Syrian territory.

And your explanation is what exactly as to how this could have happened?

Kikapu, the helicopter may have tried to escape well before any missiles were fired.

I don't know how well equipped the Syrian Chopper was, but they would have known about the inbound F-16s even if it was comms from their own radar controllers.

Also, the Turks had comms with the Chopper on the Emergency Frequency 121.5 which is always monitored.

[repulsewarrior]

So who supplied the Sarin gas then? Does anyone know? Surely the UN would have been able to carry out tests to say which country manufactured it.

...good question.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

I can't agree with anything you say at the moment.........

Hmmmm .....I don’t find that surprising. Your posts would indicate that your primary source of information is the Main Stream Media (MSM)? This is borne out by your reference to any contrary argument as being a ‘conspiracy theory’ and those that raise such arguments as ‘conspiracy theorists’. In history, time after time, it has turned out that what those who have been fed propaganda by the MSM call a conspiracy theory, turns out to be the truth. The events in Syria will turn out the same way. This was informative and shows how propaganda being spread by the MSM is a common event by Governments: (Video and article)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/faking-it-how-the-media-manipulates-the-world-into-war/5336838

Furthermore, there is conclusive proof that Assad was responsible for the CW attack on civilians last month. This is what the evidence is pointing to, not least being the fact that rocket fragments were found at ground zero belonging to the Syrian Armed Forces.

That is absolutely not correct as Ban-Ki-Moon spelled out. Again it is propaganda based and far from conclusive! There is no proof either way and to go to war on a gut feeling is criminal. Actually, if you read some of the free news web sites there would seem to be a stronger case for the rebels having been responsible for this and previous gas attacks.

The UN report said the rocket and other evidence laying around had very likely been moved and the location, which was in rebel held territory, had been well walked over. So, hardly even reliable, let alone conclusive?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/five-lies-invented-to-spin-un-report-on-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack/5350111

A point I could not find clarified in the report was whether the Sarin was military type or the type referred to as ‘kitchen sink Sarin’. The former would have killed first responders as it clings to clothing fibres. The second, home made Sarin disperses very much quicker.

It was also noted that the dead had no signs of trauma i.e. no blood from physical wounds, strange as even chemical warheads as used by the military explode on impact. There were no rebels among the victims who were mainly women and children and just a few elderly men. This suggests that the gas permeated into homes over a period of time killing the weakest first, that is the children.

The most credible report by Yahya Ababne supported by a 20yr veteran journalist from AP who interviewed survivors at the site who recounted that there had been an accidental discharge of chemical weapons supplied by the Saudis as the rebels had no knowledge of what they were handling. They died in the tunnels when the device(s) discharged the contents when the accident happened. It is credible but, again is not proof, just another piece of evidence. It needs a proper forensic investigation by experts, not wild ill informed claims by ignorant politicians like Kerry/Hague.

http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/09/01/which-syrian-chemical-attack-account-is-more-credible/

So far, everything stated on this forum has just been fabricated hysteria and so far not even one bit has been found to be accurate.

To the contrary. This seems to support many of the comments on this forum:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/murky-clues-from-uns-syria-report/5350248

There is NO proof for the claims by either the US, the UK or the French although you wouldn't realise that if you watched the BBC or read the UK MSM papers. Going on a degree of probability my money is on the rebels or just remotely, maybe rebels associated with the Syrian Army, being responsible. I don’t think Assad had anything to do with it. But I suppose if the evidence for proof isn’t there then the next best thing is to tell lies as the 'sheeple' fall for it every time................. the primary reason for this war is regime change just as it was in Iraq and Libya and we were fed a string of lies on those attacks too!