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So what can billions of dollars buy you?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

If Cyprus had billions of dollars to buy a CyProb solution I would choose…

1. A bribe for the occupier to abandon Cypriot territory.
3
30%
2. A bribe for the UNSC to issue a binding resolution in Cyprus' favor.
0
No votes
3. A bribe for a superpower to do Cyprus' dirty work.
3
30%
4. The hiring of agents and military contractors to do Cyprus' dirty work.
1
10%
5. The purchase of an endless supply of Greek history books and pom-pom shoes.
1
10%
6. Some other investment explained below...
2
20%
 
Total votes : 10

Re: So what can billions of dollars buy you?

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:27 am

The only preposterous statements are yours as there are a number of studies about Genetics that support that opinion.

There are a number if articles which point to genetic similarities, e.g. the prevalence of strains Thalassaemia in both GC and Tc populations, which are NOT present in Greeks or Turks, where the gist of the articles is that independent development of such a similar illness in13 generations is unlikely and that suggests that where a genetic illness is common to two groups the two groups are probably related, i.e. have a common set of ancestors.

See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1012610/pdf/jmedgene00294-0036.pdf
An interesting observation of this study is that oc-thalassaemia is frequent in both Cypriot cultural communities, the Greek and the Turkish. Since only 13 generations have passed since the arrival of the original Turkish settlers, it is unlikely that the high frequencies of oc-thalassaemia in the two communities were attained independently by natural selection during such a short period of time. It is more likely that the similarity in frequency of oc-thalassaemia genes reflects the common origin of the cultural communities, at present segregated, from the people that inhabited the island 400 years ago.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1390250
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7734346
[url]ftp://ftp.cordis.europa.eu/pub/inco2/docs/coe_3rd_agm_annex_3_aphrodite.pdf[url]

there was the study of Hemoglobin Variants in Cyprus but on the basis of what is quoted elsewhere here I am inclined to the view that it lacks objectivity as it makes a number of contentious statements on History which may not be supported by the evidence and which suggest a subjective political rather than objective scientific agenda behind the article

In that respect see [/url]http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/what-intra-inter-population-genetic-variance-tells-us/[/url]
from the last one
Then there is Cyprus. Today the island is ethnically divided between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. But in the Bronze Age Cyprus seems to have had a civilization with a close connection with the Near East, in particular Egypt. Sometime between the Bronze Age and the Classical Era it became an outpost of Greece. But notice the near total absence of Northern European among the Cypriots. Like the people of Sardinia, but unlike Sicily, Cyprus is relatively far from the Eurasian mainland. So how did Cyprus become Greek? If the Greeks always had a noticeable Northern European component, or at least during the Bronze Age, that would indicate that the Cypriots are a case of cultural diffusion and emulation of a small Greek elite which arrived during the migrations of the Sea Peoples. Or, the Northern European element could be due to admixture with the Slavic peoples who arrived in Greece after the collapse of East Roman frontier in the 6th century. Or it could be a combination of both. In any case, the Cypriots look most like the Syrians genetically, though the Syrians seem to have a lot more trace exogenous components.


I understand other Haplogroup studies tend to militate against close genetic links with Greece or Turkey (but closer between TC and GC and possibly Levantine peoples.
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Re: So what can billions of dollars buy you?

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:01 am

Stud, you didn't produce the paper from which you made your claim, but refer to some very old studies (e.g. 1979) which used selected, environmentally adapted conditions which are known to confer a high genetic advantage to their retention and hence are likely to have occurred by convergent evolution through multiply selected events. Concluding that such mutations are from related 'racial' groups does not hold. You are just as likely to find similar levels in a Pacific island cut off from any contact with Cyprus if the mosquitoes were sufficiently similar to warrant retention of these particular mutations.

It is now generally accepted that environmentally selected mutations cannot be used for back-delineating 'race' associations'.

Mutations and gene deletions causing the thalassemia genotype have arisen independently in different populations but have subsequently propagated by means of natural selection.
emedicine.medscape

They are mostly used for political assignations, as you have done where cultural and historical markers are wrongfully ignored. These are sloppy. Here, for example, is a study on the prevalence of a non-advantageous mutation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9094044.
Note that no such relatedness characteristics can be correlated to Cyprus specifically or any of its inhabitants - it merely suggests, if anything, that TC men are odd. :D

Even so, in one of the studies written over 30 years ago before modern genetic mapping techniques were commonplace, the authors state that hemoglobin H is found all over the Med but higher in Cyprus. They go on to show that it occurs at over 12% in a Greek Cypriots. However they find only half this level in Turkish Cypriots which does not validate their last statement on relatedness, which you quote.

However, I hope you realize from your last quote that it's explaining how Cyprus has been seeded by Greeks.
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Re: So what can billions of dollars buy you?

Postby Get Real! » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:15 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:I hope you realize from your last quote that it's explaining how Cyprus has been seeded by Greeks.

No it doesn't! :lol:
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Re: So what can billions of dollars buy you?

Postby kimon07 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:56 am

Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
In this case: #6: “Some other investment explained below...”Moo! :evil:


Spend some of it to rebuild Choirokoitia to house all the "Paphetic" Neocypriots.
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Re: So what can billions of dollars buy you?

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:58 am

Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:I hope you realize from your last quote that it's explaining how Cyprus has been seeded by Greeks.

No it doesn't! :lol:


Yes it does - "Sometime between the Bronze Age and the Classical Era it [Cyprus] became an outpost of Greece."

However, not only do they lack genetic results to elucidate further, they are sloppy in comparing spatially distanced people. Genetic markers form a gradation of similarity very quickly and instead of comparing Cypriots with "Northern Europeans" they should compare them with southern Greeks; Cretans, Peloponessians etc (like they did with the people nearer to us today); then (if they used the meaningful markers) you would see the relatedness. Human genetics is about migrations not races!
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Re: So what can billions of dollars buy you?

Postby Get Real! » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:09 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:I hope you realize from your last quote that it's explaining how Cyprus has been seeded by Greeks.

No it doesn't! :lol:


Yes it does - "Sometime between the Bronze Age and the Classical Era it [Cyprus] became an outpost of Greece."

However, not only do they lack genetic results to elucidate further, they are sloppy in comparing spatially distanced people. Genetic markers form a gradation of similarity very quickly and instead of comparing Cypriots with "Northern Europeans" they should compare them with southern Greeks; Cretans, Peloponessians etc (like they did with the people nearer to us today); then (if they used the meaningful markers) you would see the relatedness. Human genetics is about migrations not races!

No it doesn't!
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