Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Cyprus was allowed into the EU, because it RoCs ......... she is the jewel of the Mediteranian

No, the jewel of Hellenism.

Isn’t that what your mom used to call that little meat dangling between your legs?

[kurupetos]

Cyprus was allowed into the EU, because it RoCs ......... she is the jewel of the Mediteranian

No, the jewel of Hellenism.

Isn’t that what your mom used to call that little meat dangling between your legs?

[Kikapu]

Thats there problem not ours, as you say the TRNC due to its very close ties to Turkey call it assimilation or osmosis it will happen through marriage and other ways, we accepted this situation in 1974

The TCs accepted no such thing. It was forced on them by Turkey's occupation to first cleanse the north of the GCs and then the TCs from their culture and way of life by the traitors likes of Denktash and now by the likes of you. TCs could have moved to Turkey for hundreds of years if they had wanted to be assimilated with the Turks. Even when they had the opportunity to move back to Turkey and become Turks in 1923, most chose to stay in Cyprus. First the TCs were forced to change their names to take on names that associated more with names from Turkey, and now due to low numbers of TCs left in the north, they are "forced" to marry the Turks. Has your own daughter been "forced" to marry a Turk yet? Is that the reason why you are so pro Turks on everything, even when it comes to the decimation of the TCs and their culture in the hands of Turkey? Before 1974, how many TCs did you know who were married with the Turks in Cyprus.? There are some cases in the UK, mostly Illegal Alien Turks marrying TC girls to become legal. Most marriages did not last long.

and continue to do so today as the alternative osmosis or assimilation with GCs is totally unacceptable and is confirmed by the numbers of TCs who choose to remain in the TRNC when they have the option of moving south tomorrow to your so called promised land.

TCs and GCs lived together for 400 years and no assimilation or Osmosis had taken place, therefore the GCs never had intentions of having the TCs lose their own culture or identity. But the Turks are doing a good job on the TCs in the last 40 years though!

The problem is not for new generation TCs but the GCs will they want to unite with the population in the TRNC with so much osmosis and assimilation, where each person will have some TC heritage through the generations?

Your so called "new generation TCs" will be seen as Turks and as Illegal Aliens and when the time comes for Turkey to make the deal to enter the EU, as part of the deal will be, that ALL these "new generation TCs" will be sent back to Turkey, since they won't be able to prove they have any TC in them, because they won't even know their grand, grand parents real names, but only the name s they were forced to take as "Turkish names". The GCs don't have to agree to assimilate with any remaining "Turks" on the island, since the deal will ONLY be that most of the Turks will be removed from Cyprus for Turkey to gain an EU membership, hence the island becoming a "Greek Island".

When will you understand that TCs prefer the current situation to what the GCs have to offer, if what you claim was so appealing and attractive wouldnt we all be flocking to the south today?

When will you understand, that unless there is a settlement, the TCs cannot move to the south for many reasons. Watch the TCs move to the south in their thousands once there is a settlement, a BBF or a Unitary. In the meantime, they don't have a choice but to stay in the north. They would rather make Turkey pay through the nose for them than move to the south.

[kimon07]

Try reading between the lines now!

That's the very problem Kimon... you're NOT supposed to read between any lines because all you'll find is white space!

The very problem is that you are engaging to the "analysis" of complex international issues while you are both totally incapable of understanding and interpreting legal documents let alone such involving international diplomacy.

[Get Real!]

Try reading between the lines now!

That's the very problem Kimon... you're NOT supposed to read between any lines because all you'll find is white space!

The very problem is that you are engaging to the "analysis" of complex international issues while you are both totally incapable of understanding and interpreting legal documents let alone such involving international diplomacy.

It should be "in the analysis" and "ones involving".

All international law and issues are written up primarily in English and secondly in French, so how can you say such things to others when your English is so poor?

Just go away Kimon.... you're such a bore!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

The TCs accepted no such thing. It was forced on them by Turkey's occupation to first cleanse the north of the GCs and then the TCs from their culture and way of life by the traitors likes of Denktash and now by the likes of you. TCs could have moved to Turkey for hundreds of years if they had wanted to be assimilated with the Turks. Even when they had the opportunity to move back to Turkey and become Turks in 1923, most chose to stay in Cyprus. First the TCs were forced to change their names to take on names that associated more with names from Turkey, and now due to low numbers of TCs left in the north, they are "forced" to marry the Turks. Has your own daughter been "forced" to marry a Turk yet? Is that the reason why you are so pro Turks on everything, even when it comes to the decimation of the TCs and their culture in the hands of Turkey? Before 1974, how many TCs did you know who were married with the Turks in Cyprus.? There are some cases in the UK, mostly Illegal Alien Turks marrying TC girls to become legal. Most marriages did not last long.

Like it and obviously you dont from your comments above but the truth is that as time passes the intermingling of the settlers and TCs will continue to create a population where everyone has some TCs blood called the new generation TCs. No one is forced to marry in the TRNC you obviously havent got a clue about what goes on in the TRNC, how could you, you have never set foot in the north, why do you care?

TCs and GCs lived together for 400 years and no assimilation or Osmosis had taken place, therefore the GCs never had intentions of having the TCs lose their own culture or identity. But the Turks are doing a good job on the TCs in the last 40 years though!

How do you know assimilation or osmosis didnt happen? the DNA test prove you wrong but how can you lose your culture or identity when we were Turkish to start with. Your viewpoint is wrong, TCs embrace and are proud of their Turkishness, we share the same language religion therefore culture, this will only get better with time as we live work and fuze together.

Your so called "new generation TCs" will be seen as Turks and as Illegal Aliens and when the time comes for Turkey to make the deal to enter the EU, as part of the deal will be, that ALL these "new generation TCs" will be sent back to Turkey, since they won't be able to prove they have any TC in them, because they won't even know their grand, grand parents real names, but only the name s they were forced to take as "Turkish names". The GCs don't have to agree to assimilate with any remaining "Turks" on the island, since the deal will ONLY be that most of the Turks will be removed from Cyprus for Turkey to gain an EU membership, hence the island becoming a "Greek Island".

Your just stabbing in the dark as your theory that all the people in the north will all somehow be forced to go Turkey even though their bloodline crossed with Tcs time and time again which is very simple to prove just does not fit in with the democracy and human rights you continuously peddle. You may close your eyes but the real problem is what the GCs will have to face in the future when the numbers in the north demand majority rule.

When will you understand, that unless there is a settlement, the TCs cannot move to the south for many reasons. Watch the TCs move to the south in their thousands once there is a settlement, a BBF or a Unitary. In the meantime, they don't have a choice but to stay in the north. They would rather make Turkey pay through the nose for them than move to the south.

The reason they do not want to move south has nothing to do with what you state above but clearly because there is nothing for them there, no future.

[observer]

The real mystery is why other members let Greece join the EU in 1981, and later the euro.

[Get Real!]

The real mystery is why other members let Greece join the EU in 1981, and later the euro.

Observer doesn’t post often but when he does you just know he’s been fasting for 40 days prior…

[kimon07]

Try reading between the lines now!

That's the very problem Kimon... you're NOT supposed to read between any lines because all you'll find is white space!

The very problem is that you are engaging to the "analysis" of complex international issues while you are both totally incapable of understanding and interpreting legal documents let alone such involving international diplomacy.

It should be "in the analysis" and "ones involving".

All international law and issues are written up primarily in English and secondly in French, so how can you say such things to others when your English is so poor?

Just go away Kimon.... you're such a bore!

Very kind of you to correct my (admittedly) poor English.
However, my Greek education enables me to fully understand the whole meaning of what I read. While, having had a legal education, I am in a better position than you and Paphitis to understand and interpret legal texts, either laws or rulings or resolutions etc. So you will now allow me to return your kind favour and offer to you some free lessons on how to read legal documents.

Text:

(b) “The European Council underlines…” (WARNS, stresses out, shakes the finger) “..that a political settlement will facilitate the accession of Cyprus to the European Union
If no settlement has been reached by the completion of accession negotiations, the Council’s decision on accession will be made without the above being a precondition. In this (=But) the Council will take account of all relevant factors.”

Note: For this lesson, it is necessary for the class to understand the connection between the phrases “no settlement”, “relevant factors” (which led to no settlement) and “take account of all” (the relevant factors which led to no settlement). So this part of the resolution reads as:

“If no settlement has been reached (by the time the accession preconditions have been fulfilled) the Council, (in order to reach its final decision) will (also) take account of all the factors (related to the fact that) no settlement has been reached”.

Further Analysis:

1. “..a political settlement will facilitate”: fa•cil•i•tate… …. fa•cil•i•tat•ed, fa•cil•i•tat•ing, fa•cil•i•tates
To make easy or easier: political agreements that facilitated troop withdrawals.

“facilitate - increase the likelihood of” (but not make certain).
(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/facilitate)

Why and in which way would a political settlement be considered to be a development which would “facilitate” (= increase the likelihood) of the accession AFTER all preconditions had been fulfilled? Shouldn’t the accession be certain as soon as all the accession preconditions had been met?

2. “..without the above being a precondition”. (= not an obligatory condition not a “conditio sine qua non”).
(http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... ne+qua+non)
…but a condition which was underlined, nevertheless, meaning that it would be seriously considered and evaluated, in addition to the accession preconditions. When?

3. “…by the completion of accession negotiations” i.e., after it would had been determined and concluded that Cyprus had fulfilled ALL accession preconditions. At which point accession was being granted to other countries without taking account of any other “factors”.

4. “If no settlement has been reached...” (by then) “…the Council will take account of all relevant factors”.
Relevant to what?? Obviously, “relevant” to the reasons that led to the failure to reach a settlement. i.e., the factors that led to the failure such as, the lack of good faith during the negotiations, the lack of cooperation, stalling tactics and, above all, the denial to accept a final settlement plan.

Conclusion.
All possibilities had been left open for the event that a solution would not have been reached till December 2002. The final decision depended on which would be the “verdict” on the evaluation of the [b]“factors” “relevant”[/b] to the failure of reaching a settlement.

I repeat. Had the Cypriot government said NO to Annan plan II, (regardless of the answer of the TCs) would CY be granted the accession date? Yes or No? Just answer this question.Thank you.

PS1. End of the lesson in interpreting legal terminology and especially underlinings and reservations made in legal texts. As the class can see from the above, there can be many-many more lines between the lines of a legal text.

PS2. I will not charge a penny for this lesson provided GR will keep offering free English lessons to me.

Oh and, with this opportunity, let me express, once again, my gratitude to the three stooges (Denktash, Erdogan and Gul) who made our accession possible without the Annan Plan.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The real mystery is why other members let Greece join the EU in 1981, and later the euro.

Greece had to join to make sure it could get the RoC through too. Enosis achieved; now, it's a unilateral move to remove the Turks from EU territory.

Weep!