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Time for the German Reparations?

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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby halil » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:03 pm

Get Real! wrote:
kimon07 wrote:We will greatly appreciate your signature on our petition requesting the German government to honor its long-overdue obligations to Greece by repaying the forcibly obtained occupation loan, and by paying war reparations proportional to the material damages, atrocities and plundering committed by the German war machine during World War II.
Please read the petition justification and the supporting materials provided here.

And will Greece then pay her long-overdue obligations to Cyprus for her 1974 atrocities and structural damages?


Yes GR.....Greece must also pay the damages to Cypriots what they have been done between 64-74 like Turkey pays compensation what she caused between 1974 up to now.... Also ROC leadership between those years not protecting TC's rights before the 74. should give evidence in courts......
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby Get Real! » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:15 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:And how about you? Have you ever voted for anyone who denied Greece is our ally?

Feel free to utilize your microscope to trace minute quantities of Greek legitimization of their deplorable actions if it helps save face…
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby Get Real! » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:18 pm

halil wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
kimon07 wrote:We will greatly appreciate your signature on our petition requesting the German government to honor its long-overdue obligations to Greece by repaying the forcibly obtained occupation loan, and by paying war reparations proportional to the material damages, atrocities and plundering committed by the German war machine during World War II.
Please read the petition justification and the supporting materials provided here.

And will Greece then pay her long-overdue obligations to Cyprus for her 1974 atrocities and structural damages?


Yes GR.....Greece must also pay the damages to Cypriots what they have been done between 64-74 like Turkey pays compensation what she caused between 1974 up to now.... Also ROC leadership between those years not protecting TC's rights before the 74. should give evidence in courts......

Turkey hasn't paid a cent as far as I can see Halil, unless you consider the propping up of the illegal "TRNC" compensation towards Cyprus!

You idiot! :evil:
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:28 pm

Bananiot wrote:Every time Greece was given money, either in the form of a loan or otherwise, the money was plundered by corrupt officials and this has been the hallmark of the short history of modern Greece. Fascist Germany inflicted great damage to Greece but at the same time the allies carpet-bombed Germany to submission. Yet, in no time, the Germans rose to the occasion and rebuilt their totally destroyed country from scratch and a few years later, the Greeks are asking Germany to pay for war damages. I think we are plain simple jealous of the Germans for a quality they have which we cannot match in our wildest dreams.


Fully agree!

Also, Germany already paid Greece reparations in the 50s and yet they persist in spanking this dead donkey!

This is part and parcel of what is wrong with Greece. All their woes are always someone else's fault, as they always try to shift blame elsewhere. And this thread is an excellent example of this. Germany bounced back from the Ashes. The allies inflicted far greater damage onto Germany, than the Germans ever did to Greece. Yet they bounce back from nothing while Greece remains a dead beat!

If nationalists like Kimon had any brains, then they would look at Germany as a prime example of what Greece should be, not what it has become from its own hands.

And GR is right! Greece has left itself wide open to paying reparations to Cyprus and that does not exclude Turkey either. Another member excused Greece by calling Greece an "ally" to the RoC meaning that it does not need to.

Is Germany not an ally to Greece and the RoC? Greek logic perchance? :?
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:42 pm

Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:And how about you? Have you ever voted for anyone who denied Greece is our ally?

Feel free to utilize your microscope to trace minute quantities of Greek legitimization of their deplorable actions if it helps save face…


I see you are unable to answer any of the questions that even you must be asking yourself.

- Perhaps you can tell me who you are blaming, now, for this mythical "legitimization" of yours? Go on, surprise me with some facts!
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby kurupetos » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:49 pm

Cap wrote:'Yet, in no time, the Germans rose to the occasion and rebuilt their totally destroyed country from scratch
..the Germans for a quality they have which we cannot match in our wildest dreams.'

I agree.

Disagree. We did even more after the Turkish invasion, and with -37% of our land. :wink:
Germans are nothing when compared to Hellene Cypriots! 8)
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby Cap » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:31 pm

kurupetos wrote:
Cap wrote:'Yet, in no time, the Germans rose to the occasion and rebuilt their totally destroyed country from scratch
..the Germans for a quality they have which we cannot match in our wildest dreams.'

I agree.

Disagree. We did even more after the Turkish invasion, and with -37% of our land. :wink:
Germans are nothing when compared to Hellene Cypriots! 8)


I was referring to the Greeks, not the Cyps.
The Cyps performed a miracle after 74. granted. Our weakest links still remain the systems and aspects of mentality we've adopted from Greece and T***key
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:45 pm

Bananiot wrote:Every time Greece was given money, either in the form of a loan or otherwise, the money was plundered by corrupt officials and this has been the hallmark of the short history of modern Greece.



“However, 1953 was the starting point of the economic "Greek miracle". For twenty years, Greece had the highest growth rate internationally (after Japan). Despite the many political problems (which included a military junta from 1967 to 1974, the Cyprus problem and the outlawing of the Greek Communist Party from 1948 to 1974), Greece managed to transform itself, over a period of thirty years, from a destroyed (due to a long series of wars), underdeveloped small country to a country worthy of becoming a member of the (then) European Communities. Greece was accepted as the 10th member of the ECC in 1/1/1981. At the time, most of its economic indicators were better or equal to Ireland's (that was already a member), Spain's and Portugal's (which were to become members in 1986). The "Greek miracle", which was a textbook example, was basically the result of the policies of the Conservative politician Konstantinos Karamanlis who governed Greece from 1955 to 1963 and from 1974 to 1980, with a mix of Keynesian and Free-Market policies.”

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/greececor3.htm

“The Nazi occupation and plunder of Greece between 1941 and 1944 devastated the country’s economy, as foreign trade was suspended and agricultural output ground to a halt. The Nazis also forced the Greek treasury to pay huge amounts of “occupation expenses,” which caused hyperinflation when new money was printed to meet the obligation.

The period from the late 1950s to the late 1960s has been coined the era of the "Greek economic miracle." During this time, the country’s GDP grew at the fastest rate in Western Europe, averaging 7.6% annually throughout the 1960s. Industrial production grew at an average annual rate of 10% over the same period, exceeded in Western Europe only by Spain's performance. Manufacturing exports surpassed agricultural exports for the first time in Greece's history, partly because of large foreign investment in industry that boosted capital-intensive manufacturing activities. Oil refineries and petrochemical sectors developed along with chemical plants, pharmaceuticals, metallurgy, and electrical machinery. But economic growth and industrialization have their hazards. Social tensions erupted, prompted by inequitable distribution of wealth. The military junta that seized power in 1967 simply sided with big economic interests like large tourist enterprises and urban real estate, failing to solve the humanitarian problems sizzling beneath.

The energy crisis of 1973 and the subsequent international monetary turmoil affected the economy adversely…..”




The days of the Greek economic miracle were reaching a frayed end....”

http://www.thomaswhite.com/explore-the- ... reece.aspx
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:59 pm

Bananiot wrote: Yet, in no time, the Germans rose to the occasion and rebuilt their totally destroyed country from scratch and a few years later, the Greeks are asking Germany to pay for war damages. I think we are plain simple jealous of the Germans for a quality they have which we cannot match in our wildest dreams.



What is truly strange, however, is the brevity of Germany’s collective memory. For during much of the 20th century, the situation was radically different:

after the first world war and again after the second world war, Germany was the world’s largest debtor, and in both cases owed its economic recovery to large-scale debt relief.
Germany’s interwar debt crisis started almost exactly 80 years ago, in the last days of June 1931. What had triggered it was Germany’s aggressive borrowing in the late 1920s to pay reparations out of credit. A credit bubble resulted, and when it burst in 1931, it brought down reparations, the gold standard and, not least, Weimar democracy.

Having footed the resulting massive bill, after the second world war the Americans imposed the London debt agreement of 1953 on their allies, an exercise in debt forgiveness to Germany on the most generous terms. West Germany’s economic miracle, the stability of the deutschmark and the favourable state of its public finances were all owed to this massive haircut. But it put Germany’s creditors at a disadvantage, leaving it to them to cope with the financial aftermath of the German occupation.

Indeed, the London debt agreement deferred settlement of the reparations question – including the repayment of war debts and contributions imposed by Germany during the war – to a conference to be held after unification. This conference never took place: since 1990, the Germans have steadfastly refused to reopen this can of worms. Such compensation as has been paid, mostly to forced workers, was channelled through NGOs to avoid creating precedents. Only one country has challenged this openly and tried to obtain compensation in court: Greece.

It may or may not have been wise to put the issue of reparations and other unsettled claims on Germany to rest after 1990. Back then, the Germans argued that any plausible bill would exceed the country’s resources, and that continued financial co-operation in Europe instead would be infinitely more preferable. They may have had a point. But now is the time for Germany to deliver on the promise, act wisely and keep the bull away from the china shop.Source: The Guardian 21, June 2011
http://www.greece.org/blogs/wwii/?page_id=514
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Re: Time for the German Reparations?

Postby bill cobbett » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:23 pm

Erm... so what devastating past experience is missing from this thread about German Reparations ???

... remarkable that it hasn't been mentioned yet.
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