Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

They meet every day for this. Christofias meets with Talat and Soyer, Anastasiades meets with Serdar, soyer and Talat, teams from both sides meet and informaly discuss the issues, etc, etc.

The rest of us and the world should know, it should be made more public in order to serve a purpose.

You quite conveniently avoided my last paragraph about economical depedence.....

Viepoint!
When i said they meet everyday I did not say it in a literal sense but it was a figurative expression. Perhaps there are such meetings at least once, sometimes twice a week and yes, they are covered extensively by the GC media.

About Economical dependence. You must be joking of course! You had the chance and the option to get 260 millions of Euros from the EU and you turned them down so that you do not allow the slightest possibility of escaping your selves from Turkey’s economic dependence and you now tell me that you want the GCs to help you in that direction?

Do you also want the GCs to help you build your own Army so that you do not need the presence of the Turkish one?
Viewpoint, please stop taking us for a ride and more!

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

They meet every day for this. Christofias meets with Talat and Soyer, Anastasiades meets with Serdar, soyer and Talat, teams from both sides meet and informaly discuss the issues, etc, etc.

The rest of us and the world should know, it should be made more public in order to serve a purpose.

You quite conveniently avoided my last paragraph about economical depedence.....

Viepoint!
When i said they meet everyday I did not say it in a literal sense but it was a figurative expression. Perhaps there are such meetings at least once, sometimes twice a week and yes, they are covered extensively by the GC media.

About Economical dependence. You must be joking of course! You had the chance and the option to get 260 millions of Euros from the EU and you turned them down so that you do not allow the slightest possibility of escaping your selves from Turkey’s economic dependence and you now tell me that you want the GCs to help you in that direction?

Do you also want the GCs to help you build your own Army so that you do not need the presence of the Turkish one?
Viewpoint, please stop taking us for a ride and more!

When was the last meeting??? regualar did you say?? or was it the one where GCs couldnt enter a room with a TRNC flag, great excuse.

OK Kifeas you are obviously right in your own mind and I am banging my head a against a very thick brick wall. Your last comments just sum up GC mentality towards buiding trust and working together with TCs and why we will still be arguing back and forth for a zillion years to come, good luck to all Cypriots.

[Kifeas]

When was the last meeting??? regualar did you say?? or was it the one where GCs couldnt enter a room with a TRNC flag, great excuse.

No viewpoint, the last one was only 5 days ago when Vasiliou met with Fersi Soyer and they issued a joint declaration to be sent to the UN SG, asking him to proceed to a start new round of talks as soon as possible.

[Viewpoint]

When was the last meeting??? regualar did you say?? or was it the one where GCs couldnt enter a room with a TRNC flag, great excuse.

No viewpoint, the last one was only 5 days ago when Vasiliou met with Fersi Soyer and they issued a joint declaration to be sent to the UN SG, asking him to proceed to a start new round of talks as soon as possible.

Thank you for that clarification, but is Vasiliou in your current administration? Would it not be more effective if this was the 2 current leaders meeting and making a joint declaration????

[cypezokyli]

Cypezokyli,
Sciolism is far worse than nescience! Pease stop acting as if you just discovered

?????

Yes you are too young and too naive in some ways

thanks.

Are you simply telling us that we should meet with teams working in the "TRNC" "government" and start providing them with technical knowledge and support now? Which government is Viewpoint talking about, the Egyptian or the Lebanese, if not the "TRNC" one?

technical knowledge and support?
cyprus problem is our discussion. if i am not mistaken.

if u dont want to call it goverment but instead "goverment"
i dont really mind
u can call it potato as far as i am concerned.
u can call it, a comittee of tcs which will meet with a committe of the RoC to discuss the economic problems of the solution.
does this long sentence makes a difference?
if it does then i can write it for you everytime so u can feel better.
we are not politicians here.
all it is askked is that they meet.
if we want...

As for meetings discussing the A-plan, again, do you think that there is anyone in the north that is adequately empowered by Turkey (by all the factors consisting and composing this inflexible Turkish decision making mechanism -Army, deep-state, presidency, government, etc, etc) to discuss and negotiate with you (GC side) and agree anything regarding the Cyprus problem and /or the A-plan?

did u try?
and if talat has to ask turkey what is it to you?
or just invite tayip to discuss with him

Furthermore, any movement regarding the solution of the problem, we have long decided so, should be under the umbrellas and auspices of the UN, so that it is documented what each side says and agrees to

like the UN proposed plan
for example

For the moment, the UN is unwilling to call up a new round of talks due to the cap that exists between the two sides. Talat was re-conveyed via UN envoy Kieran Pretengast our positions on the A-plan, 5 months ago, and declared them a non-starter. How will the UN SG call for a new round of negotiations if the TC /Turkish side is entrenched behind what it was “accomplished” through the A-plan?

so the tc side refused
as a result it is their fault
what more can we do?
nothing i guess

Nothing can be done on a formal basis, unless it is under the auspices of the UN, do you understand this?

which we dont trust...
and are controlled by the angloamericans
but one day they will force turkey to give us everything back..

How can you negotiate with someone (i.e. Talat for example) when for something that he wants you to give out, you ask for something else on another issue and then he tells you I have to get permission from the Turkish government and then the Turkish government will say I have to get permission from the deep state and the Technocrats, and then they in turn say they have to consult also with the Army, and then Talat comes back to you and says okay, but this has to also be approved by the Turkish parliament, etc, etc. Do you realise with what kind of situation we are dealing?

my god, it sounds worse than communism
first of all there were no discussion with talat.
the only time talat was present was in switzerland, where in just a week he asked for sth else got permission from the turkish gov who got permission from the deep state and technocrats, who consulted the army and managed to get anan plan5 while we stayed with our mouths open.

Lastly, the only way the Cyprus problem will get solved is when Turkey realises that the continuation of a non-solution is detrimental and catastrophic to the rest of her other interests, and this requires all the power centres and factors in Turkey to be convinced that this is the case, and consequently turn to Talat and order him to go and negotiate and get to agree on a solution. Only then

!

who is going to make her realise it?
and how?
in the meantime, what can we do?
and what are those catastrophic interests if i may ask? our veto?

it is true i am naive.

by the way why wasting our time in a forum thread called "reaching a comprehensive solution" until the power centres in turkey are not convinced.
besides why wasting our time with the tcs ("our brothers") since it is not up to then to decide?
u want to make a state with people u dont even want to discuss with.

in the meantime vps points were 7.
i gave you some answers point by point.
u called me naive. thanks a lot.
one of them was concerned with the missing people.
it is all their fault
they want partition
they have to pay
31 years and still going
.........................................

let me remind, so u dont forget.
the older generation got a state, wanted enosis and managed to loose 37% of the island. if u compare goals and achievements....

[Kifeas]

deleted by author. double post

[Kifeas]

Cypezokyli,
Why don't you come and run for president so that you go and solve the problem immediately with your bright ideas, which no one else can see and has not seen for so many years?

Do you think you are the only pro-solution person in this country or you simply think that all of suddenly you discovered the medicine of all cures?

I still do not understand what is the bottom line of all you say? What do you suggest at last? Do you want to say that the GC side did not try to build trust between the two communities? You make a mistake! Perhaps there were and still are some more things to be done, but the problem is not there at all. You simply fail to see what is the root of the problem in my opinion. It is not trust! The issue of trust is used as a cover up.

The real issue is that we have a community (it’s leadership and the majority of it’s influential political, academic, economic and media centers,) who because they feel the power of Turkey backing them up and who also see the international community totally unwilling to put an end on Turkey’s twisted and pervasive perception of what her role and rights are in Cyprus, feel the need and the right to ask the moon and the stars in order to concede to a solution. Come over and assume the presidency, if you are elected, and then go and give them all they want so that you will get us a solution. As simple as that! All the rest are theories!

Because they cannot base on any sound logic all the things they are asking, they invent all kinds of pre-texts such as that they do not trust us because we did this and that 40 years ago, they do not want to become a minority, they do not want to be dominated by the GCs, etc, etc. The real issue behind all this is that because they got used to the idea for so many years that the occupied north is rightfully theirs forever and that whatever happened to the GCs in 1974, it happened to them because they deserved it, they do not want now to loose any of these acquisitions that Turkey illegally “succeeded” for them but rather they care only to find ways to solidify and legitimize their “acquisitions.” Of course they cannot go to the outside world and tell them all these things because they know already they will be ruled out not to be acceptable claims, therefore they invent all the other pre-texts built around the issue of trust, hoping that this by itself will increase their chances. This is why they keep talking about the past so much and so often, in many cases with the most exaggerated tone and passion, so that the GC side is victimized and qualified, both in the eyes of the international community but also morally with ourselves.

If you feel confident that you can go and convince them in anything, then I will be the first one to kiss your feet.

[cypezokyli]

if i am not mistaken we were also discussing of pap and talat meeting in order to discuss a solution.
trust was also discussed.
but above all, what was mention waa a solution.

Why don't you come and run for president so that you go and solve the problem immediately with your bright ideas, which no one else can see and has not seen for so many years?

i am too yound, too naive, and uneducated (as elas i tefra said) so it wouldnt be advisable.
in any case that is not an argument

Do you think you are the only pro-solution person in this country or you simply think that all of suddenly you discovered the medicine of all cures?

ofcource not.
yet there are two ways to treat sth which we are not sure about the cure.
either wait and hope that it will cure by itself
or try sth with the possibility to fail

You simply fail to see what is the root of the problem in my opinion

The real issue is that we have a community (it’s leadership and the majority of it’s influential political, academic, economic and media centers,) who because they feel the power of Turkey backing them up and who also see the international community totally unwilling to put an end on Turkey’s twisted and pervasive perception of what her role and rights are in Cyprus, feel the need and the right to ask the moon and the stars in order to concede to a solution.

a thats the real issue.
indeed i didnt know that

Come over and assume the presidency, if you are elected, and then go and give them all they want so that you will get us a solution. As simple as that! All the rest are theories!

indeed that is an argument
bravo you won
what should i pay?

Because they cannot base on any sound logic all the things they are asking, they invent all kinds of pre-texts such as that they do not trust us because we did this and that 40 years ago, they do not want to become a minority, they do not want to be dominated by the GCs, etc, etc. The real issue behind all this is that because they got used to the idea for so many years that the occupied north is rightfully theirs forever and that whatever happened to the GCs in 1974, it happened to them because they deserved it, they do not want now to loose any of these acquisitions that Turkey illegally “succeeded” for them but rather they care only to find ways to solidify and legitimize their “acquisitions.” Of course they cannot go to the outside world and tell them all these things because they know already they will be ruled out not to be acceptable claims, therefore they invent all the other pre-texts built around the issue of trust, hoping that this by itself will increase their chances

excellent stereotype apporach.
u seem to know the tcs better than themselves.

why the hell do we want to make a state with them?
say it to them. its because we dont have another choise
say it to your brothers kifeas.

how many tcs did u meet kifeas?
how many tcs do you know?

This is why they keep talking about the past so much and so often, in many cases with the most exaggerated tone and passion, so that the GC side is victimized and qualified, both in the eyes of the international community but also morally with ourselves

as if we dont.
ur approach to negotiation was : we were negotiating tor 30 years. it was full of future and prospect

our difference as i said to piratis does not lie in so much the past but what we expect in the future.
u wait that either the balance of power changes in our favor, or that turkey realises the catasrtophal concequences it is going to have unless it does what we want.
i say lets try. lets meet. lets give them a fucking chance.

perhaps in the end the balance of power does shift and u prove right.

in the meantime. i will coninue trying to answer to your posts point by point and u will ignore my questions and call me naive.
dont worry
i dont mind
i am used to that approach

[Viewpoint]

Cypezokyli,
Why don't you come and run for president so that you go and solve the problem immediately with your bright ideas, which no one else can see and has not seen for so many years?

Do you think you are the only pro-solution person in this country or you simply think that all of suddenly you discovered the medicine of all cures?

I still do not understand what is the bottom line of all you say? What do you suggest at last? Do you want to say that the GC side did not try to build trust between the two communities? You make a mistake! Perhaps there were and still are some more things to be done, but the problem is not there at all. You simply fail to see what is the root of the problem in my opinion. It is not trust! The issue of trust is used as a cover up.

The real issue is that we have a community (it’s leadership and the majority of it’s influential political, academic, economic and media centers,) who because they feel the power of Turkey backing them up and who also see the international community totally unwilling to put an end on Turkey’s twisted and pervasive perception of what her role and rights are in Cyprus, feel the need and the right to ask the moon and the stars in order to concede to a solution. Come over and assume the presidency, if you are elected, and then go and give them all they want so that you will get us a solution. As simple as that! All the rest are theories!

Because they cannot base on any sound logic all the things they are asking, they invent all kinds of pre-texts such as that they do not trust us because we did this and that 40 years ago, they do not want to become a minority, they do not want to be dominated by the GCs, etc, etc. The real issue behind all this is that because they got used to the idea for so many years that the occupied north is rightfully theirs forever and that whatever happened to the GCs in 1974, it happened to them because they deserved it, they do not want now to loose any of these acquisitions that Turkey illegally “succeeded” for them but rather they care only to find ways to solidify and legitimize their “acquisitions.” Of course they cannot go to the outside world and tell them all these things because they know already they will be ruled out not to be acceptable claims, therefore they invent all the other pre-texts built around the issue of trust, hoping that this by itself will increase their chances. This is why they keep talking about the past so much and so often, in many cases with the most exaggerated tone and passion, so that the GC side is victimized and qualified, both in the eyes of the international community but also morally with ourselves.

If you feel confident that you can go and convince them in anything, then I will be the first one to kiss your feet.

Kifeas man you need help and you need it quick, such venom and anger you are one disturbed GC.

[Viewpoint]

cypezokyli now how do you rate our chances of agreeing a meeting let alone a solution with mindset like Kifeas, god help all Cypriots and Im a hardliner