Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

cypezokyli, what VP wrote are things that will benefit TCs and will give to us absolutely nothing. Not only we will get nothing, but also he wants RoC to be equated with the pseudo state ("equivelent government departments", "TCs have to be allowed to represent themselves in the international community" etc). His aim (which is well known) is partition and nothing less than that. This is where his propositions aim.

first of all i asked vp what he ecpects from us to do.

second i am not sure if you even read them. or just baptised them partitionist.

1.They should invite Talat to regular meetings to talk about TCs and GCs concerns in relation to Annan plan and what needs to done to make it acceptable to both sides.

how is that partitionist?
or simply it does not suit us?

.

The Economy in the north should be encouraged to stand on its own 2 feet avoiding the sensative area of GCs personal property thus addressing GC concerns. The isloation on the north has to be relaxed to kick start the economy. This would enable Tcs to move away from depending on Turkey so much and thus make TCs more independent of its mother and closer to its brother, believe me this would benefit GCs immensly

.
i also said to vp that it is a little bit sensitive. simply bc the embargo is the only way to bring them to the negotiating table.
but, u can not just say it is partitionist
first of all vp has expressed concerns about the gc property
a partitionist wouldnt even pause on that.
he also wants that the tc get independant from the turkey (economically)
ofcource that is for us nothing.

but, what do u expect from the tc to do when their is no solution?
starve to death?

3.The 2 communites should work together on the rehousing of areas to be returned to GC administration and Maras/Varosha projects.

your reply was:

Sorry, but if you thought that you can return a tiny part of land and get recognition in return you are wrong.

no doubt we didnt reach a solution till now

that was not a proposal for solution
it was building trust measures
but for you that is ofcource nothing.

or how did u say it?

will benefit TCs and will give to us absolutely nothing

4.The missing persons issue should be resolved tomorrow no more bullshiting from either side.

i have never heard something more pro-partitionist.
well done piratis
well done
kai is anotera
continue like that

5.TCs have to be allowed to represent themselves in the international community. This can be together with GCs and independently.

here i also told vp that the comprehensive solution is more likely to achieve this.
it just like the property problem.

6. of course a solution should be found to address all concerns but the steps above would help bring the communities closer together and generate a more positive feel of TCs and GCs towards each other.
7.To address many of the issues I would engage experts from both sides that would work together on how best to move forward and identify what needs to be done to resolve issues.

whats so wrong with this?
or is it like kifeas says it: we were negotiating for 30 xears with no result, therefore..
or is it because papadopoulos does not want?
it is always more convenient when it is someones elses fault

i think we really need time till we learn how to make a dialogue
let aside negotiate.

the guy suggested 6 things
we disagree with 2.
that means all of them are bad
no positive approach , never.
the ultimate purpose is that they pay
it is so difficult to say we agree on one simple thing
EVEN ON THE MISSING PEOPLE!!!

[Kifeas]

cypezokyli

but unlike you, i really believe people can change.
i really believe that it is possible.
the fact that we tried once and failed does not mean that we shouldnt try again.
actually now we have the experience of the past and we will (hopefully) avoid in doing the same mistakes.
in a way we have to digest that if we want one united country we should accept that we will share the power with the tc.
the tcs will have to accept that the easiest and fastest way to lift the isolation is a state with the gcs.

I applaud your optimism, which I would very much like to share but our attempt at trying again was the Annan plan and we all know how that ended up.

Kifeas wrote:
The A-plan was not a plan negotiated by two fully fletched pro-solution and pro-unification sides, both negotiating on an equal footing with each other. The A-plan was a plan that was not even negotiated by the two sides. The A-plan was a plan designed by foreign powers acting on authoritarian, arbitrary and ill-fated perceptions of what constitutes a compromise between legitimacy and power politics. It was simply the outcome of Anglo-American cynicism and political amoralism.

The A-plan was not a plan with the interests of all Cypriots in its centre of focus. The A-plan was a plan designed to serve Anglo-American and Turkish interests to the maximum possible extent. It was a plan that incorporated and satisfied most of Turkey’s -and by extension the TC leadership’s- maximalistic and megalomaniac demands, claims and aspirations, with the sole aim to make Turkey look the compromising side and thus open up it’s EU accession road.

The A-plan was not a plan designed to permanently solve the Cyprus problem. The A-plan was a plan designed to provide a temporary closure of the Cyprus problem and a permanent legalised partition of Cyprus in the aftermath.

i still hope that a big number as possible can return even after a comprehensive solution. it can be done. alexandors has posted some alternatives like that.

I agree with you totally.

it seems u skipped the part where i said i have changed
indeed thats how we were raised
but let me tell u that i changed, only when i met some tcs.
so it is also up to you to destroy the stereotype that we have for you.
and if u really try perhaps u will realise that the gcs are not so bad as u imagine them

I have no problems with GCs on a one to one basis, what I do have a problem with is the arrogance and we are always right attitude of their administration, this will be their downfall in the EU, they have very limited allies and they will be used by those with their own agendas which will leave the Cyprus issue unsolvable, the EU couldnt even issue a counter declaration in over 50 dayshow on earth do you expect them to solve anything, thank god they refer us back to the UN.

Kifeas wrote:
Do not be so sure about what you say here because by definition you exert the same arrogance that you are condemning. The case in the EU is not at all the way you describe it to be, visa vie the RoC. Furthermore, the same can perfectly be said by GCs for the TC leadership.

u r the tc
why dont u tell me
i tried to open a thread and asked what should be done to build trust.
the first person that i expected an answer was vp.
u say all the time there is a trust problem
i dont have any. i trust you
its not enough my friend to spot the problem. u have also to propose some more practical solutions to the problem.

I want concrete steps taken by Gcs administration,

1.They should invite Talat to regular meetings to talk about TCs and GCs concerns in relation to Annan plan and what needs to done to make it acceptable to both sides.
Kifeas wrote:
This is already happening to a certain extend. Every month there is a meeting at Ledra Palace of all political parties from both communities discussing various issues. There are regular bi-party meetings of both Akel and Disi parties and also some other smaller ones with both Talat’s and Serdar’s party and also with some other smaller TC parties, in which all such issues are being discussed.

2.The Economy in the north should be encouraged to stand on its own 2 feet avoiding the sensative area of GCs personal property thus addressing GC concerns. The isloation on the north has to be relaxed to kick start the economy. This would enable Tcs to move away from depending on Turkey so much and thus make TCs more independent of its mother and closer to its brother, believe me this would benefit GCs immensly.
Kifeas wrote:Since the opening of the gates, which by the way it was you (Turkey and the TC establishment) who kept them closed for 30 years so that your trust towards the GCs would be “reinforced” to the “optimum,” the Per capita income of the TC community has nearly doubled. In 2003 you had a per capita of 4,200 USD and now in year 2005 you have a per capita of nearly 7,500 USD. This is a world record in international macroeconomics.

3.The 2 communites should work together on the rehousing of areas to be returned to GC administration and Maras/Varosha projects.
Kifeas wrote:
I am not sure what you mean here.

4.The missing persons issue should be resolved tomorrow no more bullshiting from either side.
Kifeas wrote:
I agree but how? What are the bullshits of the GC side?

5.TCs have to be allowed to represent themselves in the international community. This can be together with GCs and independently.
Kifeas wrote:
You were always welcomed to be represented jointly and together with the GCs. You were even asked to participate in the EU negotiations as well but you refused.

Independently? In all the international forums everyone who participates represents a country. You want us to recognise the “TRNC” so that you are represented independently?

6. of course a solution should be found to address all concerns but the steps above would help bring the communities closer together and generate a more positive feel of TCs and GCs towards each other.

7.To address many of the issues I would engage experts from both sides that would work together on how best to move forward and identify what needs to be done to resolve issues.
Kifeas wrote:
This is already happening to a great extend. Furthermore, there is no international scientific and /or professional conference taking place in the south in which TCs were /are not invited.

8. I would also get equivelent government departments working together on common policies and principles so that if we unite it will be achievable more smoothly and without caos.

Kifeas wrote:
If you are ready to denounce "TRNC" and call it instead "Pending Solution Provisional TC Community Care Taker," we will do that as well.

These are just a few that spring to mind but the bottom line is that we must meet and work together on a regular basis to solve our own issues and dialogue is the key which we do not currently have.

Viewpoint,
Those TCs who want to trust the GCs, and there are plenty of them, they do trust them. Those TCs who do not want to trust the GCs, they do not trust them.

[Piratis]

cypezokyli, I am afraid you are to young to understand how partitionists like VP think.

In 1974 Turkey occupied among other things Famagusta. Why do you think it remains a ghost city? The plan was simple: Grab more, give back a bit, keep the rest. This is what VP is trying to do right now. He is trying to give to us peanuts in return of having a separate state of his own on our land.

how is that partitionist?
or simply it does not suit us?

That is simply useless. They already know very well what we want.

but, u can not just say it is partitionist
first of all vp has expressed concerns about the gc property
a partitionist wouldnt even pause on that.
he also wants that the tc get independant from the turkey (economically)
ofcource that is for us nothing.

What he wants is to avoid any kind of consequences for their illegal actions. What they want is for their "TRNC" to become some kind of Taiwan. Do you want us to help them to achieve this because they claim that this supposedly will be helpful for the solution?

but, what do u expect from the tc to do when their is no solution?
starve to death?

Stop acting in an illegal way. Very simple. No TC starves to death. We are more willing to help them to improve their financial situation without getting any kind of recognition for their pseudo state.

that was not a proposal for solution
it was building trust measures

No, it was building the foundation for partition. Not trust measures.

i have never heard something more pro-partitionist.

Yes. The fact that they know about the missing persons and they keep this information hidden for 30 years in order to trade it in to get something in return is sickening.

[cypezokyli]

kifeas wrote :

Kifeas wrote:
The A-plan was not a plan negotiated by two fully fletched pro-solution and pro-unification sides, both negotiating on an equal footing with each other. The A-plan was a plan that was not even negotiated by the two sides. The A-plan was a plan designed by foreign powers acting on authoritarian, arbitrary and ill-fated perceptions of what constitutes a compromise between legitimacy and power politics. It was simply the outcome of Anglo-American cynicism and political amoralism.

The A-plan was not a plan with the interests of all Cypriots in its centre of focus. The A-plan was a plan designed to serve Anglo-American and Turkish interests to the maximum possible extent. It was a plan that incorporated and satisfied most of Turkey’s -and by extension the TC leadership’s- maximalistic and megalomaniac demands, claims and aspirations, with the sole aim to make Turkey look the compromising side and thus open up it’s EU accession road.

The A-plan was not a plan designed to permanently solve the Cyprus problem. The A-plan was a plan designed to provide a temporary closure of the Cyprus problem and a permanent legalised partition of Cyprus in the aftermath.

i never said the plan was good
it was indeed anglo american
but it was also a UN plan
the organisation which we always hoped that according to its resolutions we would get a solution. now we are waiting for whom? the EU?
never also forget that many of the things in the Aplan were accepted by our leadership. it doesnt matter if the people knew or didnt know what the leadership was doing. firtsly they didnt care to find out, and second both vasiliou and clerides were elected by the majority.
never forget that we are also to blame. and what they(our leadership) accepted is not so easy to change.
also, never forget that it was the only (despite being bad) plan in 30 years.
and dont forget that we are the once who rejected it.
these are mere facts. i am not saying we should accept it if we felt that it was bad. but that doesnot reduce the fact that it was the only one and we rejected it.


for point number 1. talat and pap meeting

kifeas wrote:

This is already happening to a certain extend. Every month there is a meeting at Ledra Palace of all political parties from both communities discussing various issues. There are regular bi-party meetings of both Akel and Disi parties and also some other smaller ones with both Talat’s and Serdar’s party and also with some other smaller TC parties, in which all such issues are being discussed.

piratis on the other hand wrote:

That is simply useless. They already know very well what we want.

firtsly i am not sure if AKEL actually meets.
second we are talking about official meetings with the purpose of solution. meet and start talking
as for that being useless, they know what we want... what can i say?
they know so we will wait for them till they accept it.
the point of negotiating is not to go there and say thats what we want give it to us. is to go there give in order to take sth.

can i predict the answer? (they only want to get never give. right? )

on point 2. (tc economy)

Kifeas wrote:Since the opening of the gates, which by the way it was you (Turkey and the TC establishment) who kept them closed for 30 years so that your trust towards the GCs would be “reinforced” to the “optimum,” the Per capita income of the TC community has nearly doubled. In 2003 you had a per capita of 4,200 USD and now in year 2005 you have a per capita of nearly 7,500 USD. This is a world record in international macroeconomics

piratis wrote

What he wants is to avoid any kind of consequences for their illegal actions. What they want is for their "TRNC" to become some kind of Taiwan. Do you want us to help them to achieve this because they claim that this supposedly will be helpful for the solution?

vp proposed to try and find otherways and not the construction industry for the tc economy to rise.
this is partitionist and we hope that the next plan will give us the chance to bomb them down...
lets hope.
if the next plan sais, whatever was build stays dont start crying but that is unfair. remember that u did not even try to prevent it. u hoped

3. the rehousing at varoshia.The 2 communites should work together on the rehousing of areas to be returned to GC administration and Maras/Varosha projects.

Kifeas wrote:
I am not sure what you mean here.

piratis wrote:

No, it was building the foundation for partition. Not trust measures

ok since we dont know what he means...i guess it is partitionist

number 4. the missing persons

Kifeas wrote:

I agree but how? What are the bullshits of the GC side?

piratis wrote:

Yes. The fact that they know about the missing persons and they keep this information hidden for 30 years in order to trade it in to get something in return is sickening.

i have never said that the tc leadership is innocent when it comes to the missing persons.
vp mentioned both communities should cut the bullshit.
he admitted that his community is also bullshiting
he is a tc citizen not a politician (or so i hope )
ofcource (as always)we are not to blame. as always. check the nicos dimou website... it will help
firstly: if we really considered the problem humanitarian we would try and find all tc missing persons give them to their people even with nothing in return
second: dont forget that there were some gcs in graves on our side (and even if it was just one person..which was more than that) our goverment allowed that in order to serve its propaganda purposes.
even if it was just one person, they accepted it. they are also full of bullshit.
what is more important is to blame them.

5. tc representation in the international community

Kifeas wrote:
You were always welcomed to be represented jointly and together with the GCs. You were even asked to participate in the EU negotiations as well but you refused.

Independently? In all the international forums everyone who participates represents a country. You want us to recognise the “TRNC” so that you are represented independently?

i already said my opinion on that. it is not that easy do it independatly.

i also explained the reasons for that.

6 and 7

Kifeas wrote:
This is already happening to a great extend. Furthermore, there is no international scientific and /or professional conference taking place in the south in which TCs were /are not invited.

what is said is a team of the ministry of economics meeting with a tc team.
or from education, foreign affairs etc etc. not a meeting here and there, which we usually accuse as being pro-american.
an official meeting on an everyday basis till we get to agree on sth.
no UN no guarantor powers no nothing.
gcs and tcs.
meetings which we would agree that those guys will enter those doors and dont come out until they agree. not coming out and telling to the channels it is the other sides fault.

we are already sure that it will not work.

and as for 8.

Kifeas wrote:
If you are ready to denounce "TRNC" and call it instead "Pending Solution Provisional TC Community Care Taker," we will do that as well.

vp wrote:
.

I would also get equivelent government departments working together on common policies and principles so that if we unite it will be achievable more smoothly and without caos

nobody mentioned the TRNC
nobody said that it should be recognised
or does it just bother us that he calls them goverment departments.
the stupid flags are always a cheap excuse not to start meeting.
i am not saying to recognise the TRNC
but getting stuck on names it is also a very beautiful way of achieving nothing.
we can just agree we meet with no flags no name calling.
if one wants to find excuses they are always easy to find

piratis wrote

cypezokyli, I am afraid you are to young to understand how partitionists like VP think.

i dont know how old u are piratis
perhaps i am indeed too young
but the facts show were our 1960 politicians lead us up to now.
papadopoullos admitted that the 1960 agreements were actually good.
he admitted that he was wrong on a solution proposed for the cyprus problem.
he already failed once in his life to comprehend that a solution is good.
great past.

i am indeed to young.
i have also tried to explain to vp why somethings that u call propartitionist are difficult to accept. i didn just accept everything.

i hope the older generation knows better.
their achievements up to now prove the opposite

kalimera

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

The A-plan was not a plan negotiated by two fully fletched pro-solution and pro-unification sides, both negotiating on an equal footing with each other. The A-plan was a plan that was not even negotiated by the two sides. The A-plan was a plan designed by foreign powers acting on authoritarian, arbitrary and ill-fated perceptions of what constitutes a compromise between legitimacy and power politics. It was simply the outcome of Anglo-American cynicism and political amoralism.

The A-plan was not a plan with the interests of all Cypriots in its centre of focus. The A-plan was a plan designed to serve Anglo-American and Turkish interests to the maximum possible extent. It was a plan that incorporated and satisfied most of Turkey’s -and by extension the TC leadership’s- maximalistic and megalomaniac demands, claims and aspirations, with the sole aim to make Turkey look the compromising side and thus open up it’s EU accession road.

The A-plan was not a plan designed to permanently solve the Cyprus problem. The A-plan was a plan designed to provide a temporary closure of the Cyprus problem and a permanent legalised partition of Cyprus in the aftermath.

Dont you feel this arguement is wearing thin, its was everybody elses fault but ours, the same rehtoric was used for the 1960 agreements, which you hold on to so dearly today and you constantly invite us to go back to. Although not perfect dont forget that our leaders took part in all the negotiaitons and this plan didnt just drop from the sky. It was the first solution that was put before the people and the first time we had the opportunity to voice our opinions we said YES you said NO, that was the opinion of the Cypriots, misled or misguided this was the result.

This is already happening to a certain extend. Every month there is a meeting at Ledra Palace of all political parties from both communities discussing various issues. There are regular bi-party meetings of both Akel and Disi parties and also some other smaller ones with both Talat’s and Serdar’s party and also with some other smaller TC parties, in which all such issues are being discussed

Are you sure? why arent we reading monthly reports on developements, they cant agree on anything, what do you expect from people who cant even get over sitting in a room with a TRNC flag.
Believe me nothing is being discussed its all superficial.

Since the opening of the gates, which by the way it was you (Turkey and the TC establishment) who kept them closed for 30 years so that your trust towards the GCs would be “reinforced” to the “optimum,” the Per capita income of the TC community has nearly doubled. In 2003 you had a per capita of 4,200 USD and now in year 2005 you have a per capita of nearly 7,500 USD. This is a world record in international macroeconomics

I agree with you here, but my point is that during the referendum we were accused of being the poor partner and that the south would have to foot the bill for our economic development in the north, surely to eliminate this problem we have to improve the economy in the north to match levels in the south or is it better to hold us economically hostage?

I am not sure what you mean here

What I mean is that to encourage trust by working together we could rebuild together cities like omorfo that would be handed back to GCs if a solution was found, this would improve relations and show both communites the goodwill and also prepare the path towards a unified Cyprus.

I agree but how? What are the bullshits of the GC side?

No side is innocent here please dont play virgin mary, what ever needs to be done should be done to finally put an end to these Cypriots grieving, its gone on to long and no one has the fucking right to use this to score political points.

You were always welcomed to be represented jointly and together with the GCs. You were even asked to participate in the EU negotiations as well but you refused.

Independently? In all the international forums everyone who participates represents a country. You want us to recognise the “TRNC” so that you are represented independently?

My idea on working together or independently is not for recognition of TRNC but to allow GCs and Tcs to work together so they can build Cypriotness, this takes time and if TCs felt they were more apart of this Cypriotness they would surely move forward, the current viewpoints like Kifeas and Pireas just push us further apart and for good.
The independently would for example seminars in Turkey or Turkic countries where language would be an advantage or matters that concerned only the TCs community eg cultural issues.

This is already happening to a great extend. Furthermore, there is no international scientific and /or professional conference taking place in the south in which TCs were /are not invited

Where, when? we have to work together why is it so difficult to understand TCs and Gcs have to enter workshops without outside inteference we have to learn to interact again so that we can build a common future. If this doesnt happen we will not develop our cooperation and trust between communites.

If you are ready to denounce "TRNC" and call it instead "Pending Solution Provisional TC Community Care Taker," we will do that as well.

Good idea, lets both do this until we find a solution.

Viewpoint,
Those TCs who want to trust the GCs, and there are plenty of them, they do trust them. Those TCs who do not want to trust the GCs, they do not trust them.

Trust does not come automatically it is earnt, you have to show that you can be trusted and unfortunately our past illustrated otherwise. But looking to the future Im sure we would all like to see Trust beeing rebuilt but unfortunately our leaders have other ideas and agendas.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

cypezokyli, I am afraid you are to young to understand how partitionists like VP think.

Piratis, cypezokylis views are refreshing and ı applaud his for his courage knowing that he will take the wrath of GCs who are blinkered towards realities, his brain appears to be functioning normally, unwashed and not manipulated by cries of balance of power and war, thieves, murders, rapists, parasites and Anatolian scum.

In 1974 Turkey occupied among other things Famagusta. Why do you think it remains a ghost city? The plan was simple: Grab more, give back a bit, keep the rest. This is what VP is trying to do right now. He is trying to give to us peanuts in return of having a separate state of his own on our land

No one is forcing you to take it back.

What he wants is to avoid any kind of consequences for their illegal actions. What they want is for their "TRNC" to become some kind of Taiwan. Do you want us to help them to achieve this because they claim that this supposedly will be helpful for the solution?

we agreed to a BBF, is that a Taiwan model??

We are more willing to help them to improve their financial situation without getting any kind of recognition for their pseudo state.

Really? allow direct flights as just one step to show how genuine you are.

[Kifeas]

Cypezokyli,
Sciolism is far worse than nescience! Pease stop acting as if you just discovered America! Yes you are too young and too naive in some ways.

Are you simply telling us that we should meet with teams working in the "TRNC" "government" and start providing them with technical knowledge and support now? Which government is Viewpoint talking about, the Egyptian or the Lebanese, if not the "TRNC" one?

As for meetings discussing the A-plan, again, do you think that there is anyone in the north that is adequately empowered by Turkey (by all the factors consisting and composing this inflexible Turkish decision making mechanism -Army, deep-state, presidency, government, etc, etc) to discuss and negotiate with you (GC side) and agree anything regarding the Cyprus problem and /or the A-plan? Erdogan and the Turkish government is not empowered enough to freely do so by this establishment, and you are naive to believe that Talat is? Furthermore, any movement regarding the solution of the problem, we have long decided so, should be under the umbrellas and auspices of the UN, so that it is documented what each side says and agrees to. For the moment, the UN is unwilling to call up a new round of talks due to the cap that exists between the two sides. Talat was re-conveyed via UN envoy Kieran Pretengast our positions on the A-plan, 5 months ago, and declared them a non-starter. How will the UN SG call for a new round of negotiations if the TC /Turkish side is entrenched behind what it was “accomplished” through the A-plan? Just meet in order to make kunusman and have a coffee? They meet every day for this. Christofias meets with Talat and Soyer, Anastasiades meets with Serdar, soyer and Talat, teams from both sides meet and uniformly discuss the issues, etc, etc.

Nothing can be done on a formal basis, unless it is under the auspices of the UN, do you understand this?

How can you negotiate with someone (i.e. Talat for example) when for something that he wants you to give out, you ask for something else on another issue and then he tells you I have to get permission from the Turkish government and then the Turkish government will say I have to get permission from the deep state and the Technocrats, and then they in turn say they have to consult also with the Army, and then Talat comes back to you and says okay, but this has to also be approved by the Turkish parliament, etc, etc. Do you realise with what kind of situation we are dealing?

Lastly, the only way the Cyprus problem will get solved is when Turkey realises that the continuation of a non-solution is detrimental and catastrophic to the rest of her other interests, and this requires all the power centres and factors in Turkey to be convinced that this is the case, and consequently turn to Talat and order him to go and negotiate and get to agree on a solution. Only then!

[Viewpoint]

Cypezokyli,
Sciolism is far worse than nescience! Pease stop acting as if you just discovered America! Yes you are too young and too naive in some ways.

Are you simply telling us that we should meet with teams working in the "TRNC" "government" and start providing them with technical knowledge and support now? Which government is Viewpoint talking about, the Egyptian or the Lebanese, if not the "TRNC" one?

As for meetings discussing the A-plan, again, do you think that there is anyone in the north that is adequately empowered by Turkey (by all the factors consisting and composing this inflexible Turkish decision making mechanism -Army, deep-state, presidency, government, etc, etc) to discuss and negotiate with you (GC side) and agree anything regarding the Cyprus problem and /or the A-plan? Erdogan and the Turkish government is not empowered enough to freely do so by this establishment, and you are naive to believe that Talat is? Furthermore, any movement regarding the solution of the problem, we have long decided so, should be under the umbrellas and auspices of the UN, so that it is documented what each side says and agrees to. For the moment, the UN is unwilling to call up a new round of talks due to the cap that exists between the two sides. Talat was re-conveyed via UN envoy Kieran Pretengast our positions on the A-plan, 5 months ago, and declared them a non-starter. How will the UN SG call for a new round of negotiations if the TC /Turkish side is entrenched behind what it was “accomplished” through the A-plan? Just meet in order to make kunusman and have a coffee? They meet every day for this. Christofias meets with Talat and Soyer, Anastasiades meets with Serdar, soyer and Talat, teams from both sides meet and uniformly discuss the issues, etc, etc.

Nothing can be done on a formal basis, unless it is under the auspices of the UN, do you understand this?

Lastly, the only way the Cyprus problem will get solved is when Turkey realises that the continuation of a non-solution is detrimental and catastrophic to the rest of her other interests, and this requires all the power centres and factors in Turkey to be convinced that this is the case, and consequently turn to Talat and order him to go and negotiate and get to agree on a solution. Only then!

So in other words we should not meet, not work together and not address each others concerns and agree on what will will take to the UN. If our two leaders were to show a form of cooperation then surely the UN would take this as a narrowing of the gap but ho according to Kifeas this is absoulutely not the case.
Lets wait for others to solve our problems, thats the Cypriot way, then we have someone to blame if we dont like it or it all goes wrong.

If you cannot understand the relation between economic dependence on Turkey and the decision making mechanism in the north, then you need to do more research if you do not help us to improve eceonomically it will take longer for us to stand on our own 2 feet. Do you get the message??

[Kifeas]

Cypezokyli,
Sciolism is far worse than nescience! Pease stop acting as if you just discovered America! Yes you are too young and too naive in some ways.

Are you simply telling us that we should meet with teams working in the "TRNC" "government" and start providing them with technical knowledge and support now? Which government is Viewpoint talking about, the Egyptian or the Lebanese, if not the "TRNC" one?

As for meetings discussing the A-plan, again, do you think that there is anyone in the north that is adequately empowered by Turkey (by all the factors consisting and composing this inflexible Turkish decision making mechanism -Army, deep-state, presidency, government, etc, etc) to discuss and negotiate with you (GC side) and agree anything regarding the Cyprus problem and /or the A-plan? Erdogan and the Turkish government is not empowered enough to freely do so by this establishment, and you are naive to believe that Talat is? Furthermore, any movement regarding the solution of the problem, we have long decided so, should be under the umbrellas and auspices of the UN, so that it is documented what each side says and agrees to. For the moment, the UN is unwilling to call up a new round of talks due to the cap that exists between the two sides. Talat was re-conveyed via UN envoy Kieran Pretengast our positions on the A-plan, 5 months ago, and declared them a non-starter. How will the UN SG call for a new round of negotiations if the TC /Turkish side is entrenched behind what it was “accomplished” through the A-plan? Just meet in order to make kunusman and have a coffee? They meet every day for this. Christofias meets with Talat and Soyer, Anastasiades meets with Serdar, soyer and Talat, teams from both sides meet and informaly discuss the issues, etc, etc.

Nothing can be done on a formal basis, unless it is under the auspices of the UN, do you understand this?

Lastly, the only way the Cyprus problem will get solved is when Turkey realises that the continuation of a non-solution is detrimental and catastrophic to the rest of her other interests, and this requires all the power centres and factors in Turkey to be convinced that this is the case, and consequently turn to Talat and order him to go and negotiate and get to agree on a solution. Only then!

So in other words we should not meet, not work together and not address each others concerns and agree on what will will take to the UN. If our two leaders were to show a form of cooperation then surely the UN would take this as a narrowing of the gap but ho according to Kifeas this is absoulutely not the case.
Lets wait for others to solve our problems, thats the Cypriot way, then we have someone to blame if we dont like it or it all goes wrong.

If you cannot understand the relation between economic dependence on Turkey and the decision making mechanism in the north, then you need to do more research if you do not help us to improve eceonomically it will take longer for us to stand on our own 2 feet. Do you get the message??

Bloody hell with you!
Did I say they should not meet at all? In fact not only I did not say so, but also said that such meetings do take place, almost on a weekly basis. Read again the underlined part. What is the result? Has the gab got any narrower after these meetings?

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

They meet every day for this. Christofias meets with Talat and Soyer, Anastasiades meets with Serdar, soyer and Talat, teams from both sides meet and informaly discuss the issues, etc, etc.

The rest of us and the world should know, it should be made more public in order to serve a purpose.

You quite conveniently avoided my last paragraph about economical depedence.....