With regards to International Law (UN Security Council Resolutions, UN General Assembly Resolutions, UN Charter, etc) there is not a legal platform upon which the TRNC can pursue international legitimacy and recognition. This is for a number of reasons. Firslty, although it is a democracy with its leaders being elected by the population, the territory it controls is legally part of another state, the RoC. This state despite what many may believe, is the only internationally recognised state in Cyprus, and the territory it should control (constitutionally, and legally) covers the whole of Cyprus, including the TRNC.
Second, although the principle of self-determination has its basis in the fundamentals of Human Rights and the Treaty of Versailles, the legal difficulty arising from a state artificially created by mass ethnic movements and the denial of human rights to the majority of former residents cannot be overruled.
Thus, the possibility of the TRNC being recognised as an independent state is almost non-existent for the forseeable future. The only way that things can progress is if the TC make efforts to re-unite Cyprus.
Therefore, TAKSIM is not just undesirable, it is impossible.
TAKSIM is the only solution
by realcypriot » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:16 pm
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realcypriot - New Member
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"Nagorno"?
by Azeroglu » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:53 pm
It is called either "Dagliq Qarabag or Yuxari Qarabag"...Mt. Ararat is still in Turkey...HURRAY! As for Armenia's best friend? None other than the medieval hocas of Iran who supply Armenia with her natural gas, oil and are a conduit for exporting Armenian goods...interesting though that the hocas of Iran did not mind betraying their Shi'ite correligionists in Azerbaijan. But everyone knows hoca-run Iran is Armenia's number one trading partner. Armenia and her friends!
Now, I love the way Greek Cypriots masquerade as Turkish Cypriots...Kostas becomes Birkibrisli on the forum somehow...Birkibrisli is about the most intelligent Greek Cypriot I have met so far. Then you have another Greek Cypriot go by Armenian Cypriot but spells the Armenian word "nagorno" (mountainous) as "nagarno"...I love the sense of humor.
Now for those who think Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots can co-exist in the same country, read the posts..."Turks' barbarian history", "Turks ethnically cleansed us" (no mention of the ethnic cleansing of Turks for nearly eleven consecutive years by Greek Cypriots). No mention of EOKA's "Megali Idea", no mention of how Armenians helped Greeks murder hundreds of Turks during their brief occupation of Smyrna, and Armenians setting the city on fire and blaming Turks. No mention of the Akritas Plan, no mention of the brutal attacks on Turkish Cypriot villages by overly zealot Greek nationalists.
My beef is not with Hellenism. I could easily be accused of being a Hellenophile due to my love of Byzantine history, Byzantine culture, Byzantine iconography, Byzantine hagiography, and my love of the Orthodox Church. Oh, did I mention my mother is Lebanese and Greek Orthodox, and I too am Greek Orthodox, belonging to an Old Calendarist (paleoimerologitai) Synod that is far more pure than the Church of Cyprus?
Why do I not side with my correligionists the Greek Cypriots? Very simple. My father is an ethnic Azeri Turk from Iran (home to over 30 million ethnic Azeris, more than the Republic of Azerbaijan), and Greeks continously disparage my paternal heritage and my ethnic brothers the Turkish Cypriots, calling them, or should I say US, since the epithets are usually directed at ALL Turkic people, "barbarians", "savage nomads", "uncivilized" and "animals". Why don't you Greek Cypriots do some soul searching, admit the crimes you committed against Turks, if not to the world, to your priests the next time you bow your heads under the epitrachelion . Clean your conscience during Confession, if there is one. You are calling half of my family barbarians and animals, and I do not take kindly to that. My father, a Muslim Turk from Iran, never taught me to hate anyone, not even Jews.
I hate the way you Greek Cypriots have corrupted our Holy Orthodox faith. One of the Ten Commandments is, "Thou shalt not kill", yet you murdered Turks, "Thou shalt not lie" yet you deny ever having spilled Turkish blood. And Turks are the most secular of Muslims.
Our faith is one of love and kindness towards others, even the enemy, yet you spread hatred against Turks. The faith of the Church Fathers, the faith of the Apostolic Tradition, the Canons, the Creed of the Nicene Fathers, the faith that brings with it the fruits of mysticism, monasticism, and hesychasm, is corrupted by your Greek nationalism and Hellenist jingoism. The Orthodox Church is a "Catholic" and "Apostolic" Church, and "Catholic" means UNIVERSAL. In other words, killing in the name of nationalism or ethnic pride is strictly forbidden in our faith.
For obvious political reasons, you Greek Cypriots created an Autocephalous Church of Cyprus, for no reason other than to be independent of the Patriarch who is Greek yet a Turkish citizen, and on friendly terms with the Turkish government. Self-governance meant also that you could create a political Church whereby an Archbishop would govern a country...strict Orthodox tradition forbids a bishop or archbishop to involve himself in politics. Remember, bishops and Archbishops come from the ranks of hieromonks (who are celibate), and NO true Orthodox monastic would EVER involve himself or herself in politics or nationalism. Monks or nuns who wear the Schema (particularly the Megalo-Schema, or Great Schema) are expressly forbidden to go ANYWHERE near politics or nationalism. If there is any doubt as to the validity of this, please refer to the Canons or better yet the Philokalia. Enter Makarios, the Archbishop of Kyrenia, who violated every rule in Orthodoxy, and sanctioned the Akritas Plan on top of everything else. I will not speak ill of the dead, and in fact, I always remember every Orthodox Christian who has passed from this life during Panikhidas and at other times. Were there Greek Cypriot casualties during the Cyprus conflict? Yes, but the number of Turks who were killed are five times higher, and their only crime was being Turks.
The island of Cyprus was leased to Great Britain, trusting that it would be returned to Ottoman Turkey once the lease was up. Britian punished Turkey for siding with Germany during WWI, and annexed it. After independence Turks gave it their best shot with the Makarios/Kucuk government only to see their rights being taken away from them by those who favored ENOSIS. Then having a well known Turk-hater and murderor of Turks named Nikos Sampson come to power, after ousting Makarios. ENOSIS was imminent, and Turkey, under the Treaty of Guarantee had no choice but to intervene after appealing nearly SEVEN times to Britain, a Guarantor, to protect Cypriot independence, and ask Greek army officers to leave Cyprus...even the United States ignored Turkey's request for mediation, not wanting to choose between two NATO allies (the mother countries, Greece and Turkey respectively).
I could NEVER share the Chalice or attend Divine Liturgy with those who wish to kill my kind, those who hate what is the culture and ethnicity of HALF of my family. As much as I favor TAKSIM and as much as I support the TRNC, I will also always ask that Turkish Cypriots respect the integrity of Orthodox monasteries, sketes, and Churches, and if they do not, I will criticize them for that, but do not forget the hundreds of mosques that were destroyed in the Greek Republic of Cyprus and burned or razed to the ground. I saw first hand how Cypriot Greeks were cheering the wholesale murder of Albanians in Kosovo at the hands of Serbs who referred to the Albanians as "dirty Turks", the same way they referred to Bosnian Muslims as "dirty Turks". I would hate to think an Orthodox priest gave those chetniks his blessing before they went out on their bloody rampage...that is reminiscent of how Catholic Croat priests blessed their Ustashas before they murdered one million Orthodox Serbs under Pavelic and under the auspices of Cardinal Stepinac.
No mention by Greeks of how Ottoman Turkey actually protected Orthodox Greeks from the scourge of Western Christians (ROMAN CATHOLICS, who to this day hate Orthodox Christians more than Muslims), minimized Venetian and Genoese influence (in effect Catholic influence) in the Eastern Mediterranean, and instituted the Millet System under which Orthodox Christians were protected as a religious group. Were there Orthodox saints who were martyred under the Ottomans? Yes. Were there Orthodox Christians forced into Islam and into the Janissary Corps? Yes. But the last few centuries of the Ottoman Empire saw a very benevolent and tolerant line of Sultans who allowed complete religious freedom and protection for Orthodox Christians.
I saw in very clear big bold letters in Larnaca, "KALOS TOURKOS, NEKROS TOURKOS". Enough said, I will continue to support the TRNC and Turkish national aspirations, even though I am only half-Turkic.
My father's heritage has been disparaged continously by Greeks and Armenians, and I am sick and tired of it.
YASASIN KUZEY KIBRIS CUMHURIYETI
Now, I love the way Greek Cypriots masquerade as Turkish Cypriots...Kostas becomes Birkibrisli on the forum somehow...Birkibrisli is about the most intelligent Greek Cypriot I have met so far. Then you have another Greek Cypriot go by Armenian Cypriot but spells the Armenian word "nagorno" (mountainous) as "nagarno"...I love the sense of humor.
Now for those who think Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots can co-exist in the same country, read the posts..."Turks' barbarian history", "Turks ethnically cleansed us" (no mention of the ethnic cleansing of Turks for nearly eleven consecutive years by Greek Cypriots). No mention of EOKA's "Megali Idea", no mention of how Armenians helped Greeks murder hundreds of Turks during their brief occupation of Smyrna, and Armenians setting the city on fire and blaming Turks. No mention of the Akritas Plan, no mention of the brutal attacks on Turkish Cypriot villages by overly zealot Greek nationalists.
My beef is not with Hellenism. I could easily be accused of being a Hellenophile due to my love of Byzantine history, Byzantine culture, Byzantine iconography, Byzantine hagiography, and my love of the Orthodox Church. Oh, did I mention my mother is Lebanese and Greek Orthodox, and I too am Greek Orthodox, belonging to an Old Calendarist (paleoimerologitai) Synod that is far more pure than the Church of Cyprus?
Why do I not side with my correligionists the Greek Cypriots? Very simple. My father is an ethnic Azeri Turk from Iran (home to over 30 million ethnic Azeris, more than the Republic of Azerbaijan), and Greeks continously disparage my paternal heritage and my ethnic brothers the Turkish Cypriots, calling them, or should I say US, since the epithets are usually directed at ALL Turkic people, "barbarians", "savage nomads", "uncivilized" and "animals". Why don't you Greek Cypriots do some soul searching, admit the crimes you committed against Turks, if not to the world, to your priests the next time you bow your heads under the epitrachelion . Clean your conscience during Confession, if there is one. You are calling half of my family barbarians and animals, and I do not take kindly to that. My father, a Muslim Turk from Iran, never taught me to hate anyone, not even Jews.
I hate the way you Greek Cypriots have corrupted our Holy Orthodox faith. One of the Ten Commandments is, "Thou shalt not kill", yet you murdered Turks, "Thou shalt not lie" yet you deny ever having spilled Turkish blood. And Turks are the most secular of Muslims.
Our faith is one of love and kindness towards others, even the enemy, yet you spread hatred against Turks. The faith of the Church Fathers, the faith of the Apostolic Tradition, the Canons, the Creed of the Nicene Fathers, the faith that brings with it the fruits of mysticism, monasticism, and hesychasm, is corrupted by your Greek nationalism and Hellenist jingoism. The Orthodox Church is a "Catholic" and "Apostolic" Church, and "Catholic" means UNIVERSAL. In other words, killing in the name of nationalism or ethnic pride is strictly forbidden in our faith.
For obvious political reasons, you Greek Cypriots created an Autocephalous Church of Cyprus, for no reason other than to be independent of the Patriarch who is Greek yet a Turkish citizen, and on friendly terms with the Turkish government. Self-governance meant also that you could create a political Church whereby an Archbishop would govern a country...strict Orthodox tradition forbids a bishop or archbishop to involve himself in politics. Remember, bishops and Archbishops come from the ranks of hieromonks (who are celibate), and NO true Orthodox monastic would EVER involve himself or herself in politics or nationalism. Monks or nuns who wear the Schema (particularly the Megalo-Schema, or Great Schema) are expressly forbidden to go ANYWHERE near politics or nationalism. If there is any doubt as to the validity of this, please refer to the Canons or better yet the Philokalia. Enter Makarios, the Archbishop of Kyrenia, who violated every rule in Orthodoxy, and sanctioned the Akritas Plan on top of everything else. I will not speak ill of the dead, and in fact, I always remember every Orthodox Christian who has passed from this life during Panikhidas and at other times. Were there Greek Cypriot casualties during the Cyprus conflict? Yes, but the number of Turks who were killed are five times higher, and their only crime was being Turks.
The island of Cyprus was leased to Great Britain, trusting that it would be returned to Ottoman Turkey once the lease was up. Britian punished Turkey for siding with Germany during WWI, and annexed it. After independence Turks gave it their best shot with the Makarios/Kucuk government only to see their rights being taken away from them by those who favored ENOSIS. Then having a well known Turk-hater and murderor of Turks named Nikos Sampson come to power, after ousting Makarios. ENOSIS was imminent, and Turkey, under the Treaty of Guarantee had no choice but to intervene after appealing nearly SEVEN times to Britain, a Guarantor, to protect Cypriot independence, and ask Greek army officers to leave Cyprus...even the United States ignored Turkey's request for mediation, not wanting to choose between two NATO allies (the mother countries, Greece and Turkey respectively).
I could NEVER share the Chalice or attend Divine Liturgy with those who wish to kill my kind, those who hate what is the culture and ethnicity of HALF of my family. As much as I favor TAKSIM and as much as I support the TRNC, I will also always ask that Turkish Cypriots respect the integrity of Orthodox monasteries, sketes, and Churches, and if they do not, I will criticize them for that, but do not forget the hundreds of mosques that were destroyed in the Greek Republic of Cyprus and burned or razed to the ground. I saw first hand how Cypriot Greeks were cheering the wholesale murder of Albanians in Kosovo at the hands of Serbs who referred to the Albanians as "dirty Turks", the same way they referred to Bosnian Muslims as "dirty Turks". I would hate to think an Orthodox priest gave those chetniks his blessing before they went out on their bloody rampage...that is reminiscent of how Catholic Croat priests blessed their Ustashas before they murdered one million Orthodox Serbs under Pavelic and under the auspices of Cardinal Stepinac.
No mention by Greeks of how Ottoman Turkey actually protected Orthodox Greeks from the scourge of Western Christians (ROMAN CATHOLICS, who to this day hate Orthodox Christians more than Muslims), minimized Venetian and Genoese influence (in effect Catholic influence) in the Eastern Mediterranean, and instituted the Millet System under which Orthodox Christians were protected as a religious group. Were there Orthodox saints who were martyred under the Ottomans? Yes. Were there Orthodox Christians forced into Islam and into the Janissary Corps? Yes. But the last few centuries of the Ottoman Empire saw a very benevolent and tolerant line of Sultans who allowed complete religious freedom and protection for Orthodox Christians.
I saw in very clear big bold letters in Larnaca, "KALOS TOURKOS, NEKROS TOURKOS". Enough said, I will continue to support the TRNC and Turkish national aspirations, even though I am only half-Turkic.
My father's heritage has been disparaged continously by Greeks and Armenians, and I am sick and tired of it.
YASASIN KUZEY KIBRIS CUMHURIYETI
- Azeroglu
- Member
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:27 pm
- Location: New York
Me in Larnaca
by Azeroglu » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:07 pm
Why was I in Larnaca, someone was wondering. Because my connection was in Frankfurt (coming from the USA...incidentally I am an American born in the USA) and thanks to the Greek inspired embargo and sanctions, there were no nonstop or direct flights to Ercan (as you call it Tymbou) Airport, AND I was going on to Amman, Jordan, and there are NO direct flights from Ercan to Amman either, thanks to the embargo.
Next time I am in Larnaca, I have vowed to pay a visit to Saint Lazarus' Church, whose intercession I strongly believe in.
Next time I am in Larnaca, I have vowed to pay a visit to Saint Lazarus' Church, whose intercession I strongly believe in.
- Azeroglu
- Member
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:27 pm
- Location: New York
Armenian Cypriot
by Azeroglu » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:57 pm
You just joined the forum today, 22 September! So what we have is a Greek Cypriot who is already a member of the forum who decided to choose the name "Armenian Cypriot" today after reading my post...Chronia Polla, Armenian Cypriot was born today, Thursday, Sept. 22!!!! LOL!
- Azeroglu
- Member
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:27 pm
- Location: New York
by ARMENIAN CYPRIOT » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:22 pm
I am sure the day after the Turks apologize for the Genocide carried out against the Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians and other Christians of Anatolia, I am sure Armenia Cyprus and Greece will apoligize for defending there selves. Nagorno- Karabagh will allways exist. 
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ARMENIAN CYPRIOT - Regular Contributor
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Qarabag
by Azeroglu » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:58 pm
Armenian Genocide: MYTH...NOW moving on...Qarabag will exist always...and soon reunited with Azerbaijan. Assyrians...I have met Suryanis (Assyrians) who owe allegiance to Turkey.
Armenia joined Russia in a plot against Ottomans, for that they were forced to migrate away from border areas, many died of starvation, and disease just as many Turks did.
Turkey has repeatedly offered to open the Archives of 1915 if Armenia would reciprocate...Armenia has refused to comply.
Crybaby Armenians who killed thousands of Azeris in Aghdam, Lachin, Khojaly, Shusha, etc. etc. and displaced a million Azeris should be the last to talk about Genocide.
But Armenians should thank you, a Greek Cypriot, for being their spokesperson and mouthpiece.
So, Greek Cypriot, tell us, Hairan khosees?
Armenia joined Russia in a plot against Ottomans, for that they were forced to migrate away from border areas, many died of starvation, and disease just as many Turks did.
Turkey has repeatedly offered to open the Archives of 1915 if Armenia would reciprocate...Armenia has refused to comply.
Crybaby Armenians who killed thousands of Azeris in Aghdam, Lachin, Khojaly, Shusha, etc. etc. and displaced a million Azeris should be the last to talk about Genocide.
But Armenians should thank you, a Greek Cypriot, for being their spokesperson and mouthpiece.
So, Greek Cypriot, tell us, Hairan khosees?
- Azeroglu
- Member
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:27 pm
- Location: New York
one last item
by Azeroglu » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:19 pm
"Armenian" Cypriot, if you were a real Armenian you would not have called it "Nagorno-Karabakh", you would have called it "Artsakh"...nice try though!
- Azeroglu
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:27 pm
- Location: New York
by cypezokyli » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:50 am
Kostas becomes Birkibrisli on the forum somehow...Birkibrisli is about the most intelligent Greek Cypriot I have met so far.
- cypezokyli
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- Location: deutschland
and...
by Azeroglu » Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:26 am
The Catholicos Vazgen of the Armenian Gregorian Church is heavily involved in politics, again in violation of the Armenian Church's own Church law. Both my Lebanese Armenian friend Dikran (whose name is pronounced Tigran back in Armenia proper) and my friend Seda who is also Armenian once told me (speaking in general terms and in no way referring to regional politics) told me an Armenian bishop can in no way be involved in politics. This was in the context of a general discussion about religious hierarchy. I do not hate Armenians, and met several in Jerusalem who were fluent in Arabic (and we conversed in Arabic) whom I liked, but I will never buy into their exaggerations about you-know-what. Were some Armenians killed deliberately? I wouldn't say none, but one million is a gross exaggeration, and nothing on the scale of wholesale murder. Now we can all either play the blame game, or be realistic and face issues head on. I will not get into a polemical discussion with those who wish to defame Turks on this website. Again, it is a waste of time and energy engaging in verbal sparring with those who know nothing but name calling, war of words, personal attacks, character assassination and defamation of others. Jai (kai) afto to paidi dhe xerei tipote, j'ego dhe thelo na millisso mazi tou...ZEITO TOURKIA
Nothing personal against Cypriot Greeks...I like your food, your zivania, and your koummandaria wine which we use for Holy Communion at our Church. But you insult half of my family with your hateful comments about Turks. How would you feel if you were in my shoes? Stop hating Turks so much...learn a trade, go enjoy some kleftiko with red wine, and glyka for desert, and do something useful.
Nothing personal against Cypriot Greeks...I like your food, your zivania, and your koummandaria wine which we use for Holy Communion at our Church. But you insult half of my family with your hateful comments about Turks. How would you feel if you were in my shoes? Stop hating Turks so much...learn a trade, go enjoy some kleftiko with red wine, and glyka for desert, and do something useful.
- Azeroglu
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