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TAKSIM is the only solution

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:26 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:1. I agree the troops should go, that goes for your troops as well. one entity that ones a bit more difficult, I want to stay on Cyprus but I dont want to live with you...


Viewpoint!
You now have the opportunity to express all your wishes, wants and preferences. Please tell me everything you want!

If you are shy, then I will do the start first. I want to be the king and master of the Universe. I want to be God. I want to rule the entire world one day. I want to have trillions of tones of gold and zillions of pounds. I want to live one Zillion years and to always be young and healthy. I want to have a zillion of women in my service and change one every day for as long as I live.

It is your turn now! I am all ears eyes to listen and read all your wants and desires.

Viewpoint!
I did not ask you share your bedroom with me, nor your house. Of course, what I understand from what you said above, you obviously mean that do not want to live with me (GCs) in the same country. You want to have a separate country exclusively for your selves (TCs) and in which me and the other GCs cannot share and cannot live in.

Sorry Viewpoint, this cannot happen in Cyprus! Cyprus, the whole of Cyprus, is the country of the GCs. It is the country of the GCs for the last 3,500 thousand years, or better since there are written records of their existence. Of course it is also the country of the TCs. Because Cyprus if the country of the GCs, GCs have a natural right to live in their country, everywhere anywhere they choose, in their country. This is a natural, regal, moral and ethical right. It is a fundamental human right.

Now what you expressed above, namely that you do not want to live with us, is a mere preference, a desire. Your preference, your desire, your want is in direct conflict with the GC’s natural right. What you want is not a right, it is a desire or a preference, and what the GCs want is not a desire or a preference, it is a right. When a desire or a preference is in conflict with a right, then what proceeds from the two is the right. If you want your desire or preference to be fulfilled, then you can move your self in the Sahara dessert. I can assure you no GC will follow you there.

The right of the GCs to live anywhere they wish in their country doesn’t have to do with properties. This right is a natural, historical and an identity one. It is a legal and a moral right and it is not negotiable, nor a subject or a matter of compensation.

Of course, and as you have done for the last 31 years, you seem to be prepared to continue to enforce your desires and preferences. You use the force of the Turkish army in order to impose your desires against and in the expense of the GCs rights.

However this above act of yours, and I am sure you are able to understand this despite your limited abilities, provides the GCs with the legitimate right, whenever this will become feasible and once they will realise that you are not willing to ever act in a civilised and sensible manner, to prepare themselves to use the same means and methods like the ones you currently use against them for the sole purpose of enforcing your illegitimate desires in the expense of the GC’s legitimate rights.

I hope I was a bit clearer this time, although I know it is always difficult for you to understand certain things, regardless how analytically they are presented to you.


Blood pressure gone up Kifeas? the usual verbal dihorea we hear from you is wearing real thin, which in effect means you are wrong I am right. You have no rights to want anything because you are illeagal and we have every right has we are illegal.
The mentality you have displayed in the above post is the exact reason why I believe we cannot live together in a unitary state, because GC mindset is that they are always right and that they have every right to do whatever they want because they are the numerical majority and are recognized by the world, this gives them that supriority complex which makesme sick and you are a very good example.
Well Kifeas have I got news for first you need to take a reality check all your legallites have gotten you nowhere closer to living anywhere on the island or dominating the TCs community for the past 31 years, you are welcome to visit our side (with your sandwiches and keo) but as long as you go back to your side at the end of the day and leave us in peace.

We have 37% of the island so if we cannot agree on a partnership that both communities can commit to, then we will continue as a divided island forever, or as Piratis says the balance of power changes in your favour and you can blow us TCs to kingdom come and have the island to yourself, or never forget the balance of power could even go further in favor of TCs, eg recognition of the TRNC, Annan 6 further concessions from GCs forced by EU UN USA etc.

I dont mind living on the same island with GCs but we are obviously unable to form one entitiy where we can trust each other, feel safe and proper,please dont try and argue this point we have tried on and off for over 45 years now to no avail, if you were right we would have found a solution a long time ago, so whats the alternative? imo its living seperately as 2 good neighbours like we are right now but with better relations and recognition of the north. You would be in the EU and we would not, the relations between our 2 countries would be based along the same principles of many other small countries.

Your idea is a forced marriage of a divorced couple who in the past may have had feelings for each other but came to realize through experience that they caused each other more damage than good, so the best route would be to divorce and go their seperate ways.

I dont want a forced marriage, you do...havent I got the right to reject marriage with you and go my own way?

Im not going anywhere off my part of the island and I dont want your 2/3rds of the island, you live there divorced from me or as you said go live in the Sahara. Leave us alone to live as all other people in the world not constantly under isolation maintained by your GC administration at every international level possible.
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Postby cmantas_liberal » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:25 pm

azeroglou, greeks and turks may not live together but u didnt say anything about the Cypriots? what about them?
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Postby akiner » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:09 am

"Cypriot" is an artifical term, for centuries there have been turks&greeks
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:29 am

akiner wrote:"Cypriot" is an artifical term, for centuries there have been turks&greeks


Artificial is only you, your brain and your ideas! Idiot!!!
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Postby cmantas_liberal » Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:34 am

for centuries? did u read that report that gc tc are genetical identical? Using that perception u shall ask for an independent country in Germany, maybe a halifat of germanistan. If those turkish settlers or occupators can not live together with the rest of cypriots they shall go back home. They will always have the status of immigrant-occupators.
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:33 am

viewpoint wrote:
Well Kifeas have I got news for first you need to take a reality check all your legallites have gotten you nowhere


well.... thats i am afraid so true
even though the u have to accept that it is the only thing we have against a military-superior country. and the fact that the situation has stayed as it is, is not a mere gc fault.
it was just perhaps a bad timing between the two. when you had for 30 years denktash, who wouldnt even bother to come to discussions, that also did lead somewhere: ofcource to no soution (but i guess that is from your point of view a target...so... well done), but also it did not lead to any lifting of the embargos.
your politicians as our do have their targets...
and ofcource they dont care for the gc and tc refuggees , or isolation.



you are welcome to visit our side (with your sandwiches and keo)

indeed this keo and sandwiches attitude is really sick. i have to admit though, that i also did that on my first visit :oops:

but things change, my friend vp, as i changed, and if u were also ready to overcome some of your fears for gcs u could perhaps believe that we can live together.
just sitting behind the computer screen and wait that one day it is going to start raining trust (or u wait for papadopoulos in that respect)...
well....
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Postby cmantas_liberal » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:27 pm

by the way... all cypriots have the same accent, whenever is a turkish or greek speaking, they ALL have the same accent. What about that? This is a distinction of the Cypriot nation from Greece and Turkey.

I shall remind u what G.Papandreou said during the referendum in 2004, that cypriots shall develop their own nationality (dimiourgia e8nikhs taytotitas) and work as an independent nation and not some sort of a greek or turkish protectorat.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:09 pm

cypezokyli
well.... thats i am afraid so true
even though the u have to accept that it is the only thing we have against a military-superior country. and the fact that the situation has stayed as it is, is not a mere gc fault.
it was just perhaps a bad timing between the two. when you had for 30 years denktash, who wouldnt even bother to come to discussions, that also did lead somewhere: ofcource to no soution (but i guess that is from your point of view a target...so... well done), but also it did not lead to any lifting of the embargos.
your politicians as our do have their targets...
and ofcource they dont care for the gc and tc refuggees , or isolation.


You have to weigh up the pros and cons cypezokyli, although I agree that Denktas stance did loose a lot of ground and time in trying to find a solution that would resolve many of our issues I feel Denktas knowing the GCs mentality so well, he knew that he would never be able to negotiate anything near what TCs would find accepable or would elivate his fears and concerns about GCs hidden agendas and what they would attempt to do to the TCs community after a solution was found. The 1960 agreements are a prime example of a community that entered into an agreement knowing full well they were not going to stick to it from the outset which in my book is unexplainable and treacherous.Its like I enter into a partnership with you in goodfaith but you have other aspirations, you are planning to rip me off and make me one your workers....how would you feel? would you go and sign another partnership deal with that person only just having saved yourself from his devious underhand plans to reduce you to slave labour status?
Obvious the leader makes no difference whatsoever to the GC side as we have replaced the man you hate and despise so much with a more liberal and unification thinking man yet all GCs seem to do is brainwash people into thinking he is no better than Denktas, I always thought he was the ideal candidate that GCs could work with to find a solution, yet you cant and wont even talk to him, shouldnt you be questioning your own leaders as to why this is the case???

The embargos and isolation issue, yes you are right this is the price we have to pay and is clearly a con as we have limited ability to streathen our economy due to these restrictions but the pro side is that we have our own safe haven the TRNC where we do not have to live with the concerns of being politically and economically dominated by GCs, in a GC state..
We have our own president, parliment, police, army, laws etc etc although not recognized we have all the organs in place that go to make a country, like it or not its a reality and you live this reality everytime you cross the boarder into the TRNC.

The one chance we had when the people that count were asked which does not come around very often its not like ho lets miss this bus there will be another one in half hour, we said yes and you guys said no to something that contained your contribution as well. GCs in general have this automatic reaction of blaming negative results on everyone under the sun except themselves, you need to look towards your own leaders for many of the results of today.

The refugess are the real Cypriots who have paid the price of our actions which have led us to the current situation, they can only be compensated via a comprehensive solution which is nowhere in sight.

indeed this keo and sandwiches attitude is really sick. i have to admit though, that i also did that on my first visit

but things change, my friend vp, as i changed, and if u were also ready to overcome some of your fears for gcs u could perhaps believe that we can live together.
just sitting behind the computer screen and wait that one day it is going to start raining trust (or u wait for papadopoulos in that respect)...
well....


That is the mentality you were raised with, take your own food and dont spend anything in the north to help their economy, but what did TCs quite the opposite, this is another indication of the difference between our communities.

Let me put it as a question what do you think TCs need to see or experience in order to change their viewpoint about living and working with GCs in a united Cyprus????
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:28 pm

cypezokyli wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Well Kifeas have I got news for first you need to take a reality check all your legallites have gotten you nowhere



well.... thats i am afraid so true


cypezokyli!
Can you please first explain to me what you understood from the above -meaningless for my poor English, sentence that viewpoint wrote and then also please explain to us what you exactly mean in your reply, and what you find so true in viewpoint's meaningless statement?
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:17 pm

i dont know how else i can explai it kifeas.
let me try this way.

if u did sth to me, and as a concequence i come at your place in paphos kick you out and take your property, and then argue its mine what can u do (always legally)?
u can call the police.
u can take me to court
the court is going to decide according to the laws the parliament has voted
then if the court decides you r right i have to give you back everything i took away
and if i refuse, then u can call the police and i will go to prison.
very nice story.

in inernational politics that doesnot hold.
there are some laws, not binding (with no parliament)
there are some courts (with no power)
there is no police

titina loizidou won the case against turkey in ECHR didnt she?
the orgnisation we hoped for a solution decided that some refugees could return and some not
rightly or wrong, the decision of the court was simply forgotten
the examples can go for ever

ofcource legally we have right
ofcource the reality is different
there is no police to call
the turkish army is hier
and the way i see it is, too much legal point of view on the subject is the recipee for no solution.

legality and reality
such a big difference
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