Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

An opinion piece! Putting the facts together and coming up with an overall and fairly pragmatic view of the problem ......

Wake Up and Stop the Madness of a War With Iran - By Medea Benjamin

May 04, 2018 "Information Clearing House" - The Iran nuclear deal is on the verge of sinking on May 12, when Donald Trump will decide whether or not to waive the nuclear-related sanctions, as the deal calls for. While the world is cheering the upcoming meeting between Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un (including Trump’s fans calling for a Nobel Peace Prize), Trump is needlessly and recklessly driving our nation down a path toward war with Iran—and neither Congress nor the American people seem to care.

French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, fearing the consequences of a broken deal, visited the White House. Macron tried to appease Trump by suggesting new agreements to the deal, something Iran’s government views as ludicrous. According to Iranian president Hassan Rouhani—who has been subjected to enormous domestic criticism for striking a deal with Washington only to see the U.S. threaten to back out so quickly: “We will not add anything to the deal or remove anything from it, even one sentence. The nuclear deal is the nuclear deal.”

Full article .....

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49361.htm

[Pyrpolizer]

Tears of Gaza .... another prize winning film produced some years ago by a Norwegian anti-war group and is the problem seen through the eyes of Palestinian children. For the first 15 minutes the place seems no different to Limassol then reality kicks in. Keep a box of tissues handy it really is a moving story!!!! Makes you wonder at the resilience of these kids and just how quick they have to grow up!!!!

http://www.documentarytube.com/videos/tears-of-gaza

Thanks. Shocking! I had a hard time watching it. Any possibility anyone would show it to Trump?
Looks all evil on earth has concentrated in Israel....

[Pyrpolizer]

So what!

It's also the Biggest Country out of the above you refer to, and a country with a GDP of 17 Trillion USD.

Russia's GDP in comparison is only about the same as Turkey's on a per capita basis.

These are not valid comparisons.

In addition, arms sales will still occur without war. Most countries will continue to buy arms and equip their Armed Forces. And the wealthier the country, the more money they will spend.

In addition, the USA has the strictest Arms Controls in the world. The Government has control as to where Arms sales are sold to, and every arms deal needs to be ratified by Congress. it is the only country in the world that will do this to my knowledge.

My question was not who sells more armaments. It was who has a war dependent economy.
War dependent economy is an economy that needs a continuous consumption of the armaments it produces for it's own over and above the armaments it sells.
Try again Paphitis.

[Pyrpolizer]

+ many other factors like controlling the global energy sources etc etc.

[Robin Hood]

+ many other factors like controlling the global energy sources etc etc.

..... and the Global financial system!

That is how they control the Global energy resources ..... the Petro dollar ..... which means they buy their goods from all countries in their dollars, which are created on demand, because the countries need the dollars to by energy. Any country that decides to deal in anything other than the Petro Dollar ...... then becomes a target for US military intervention. Then Trump has the audacity to complain about unfair practices working against the US national interests and US global trade!

[Londonrake]

So what!

It's also the Biggest Country out of the above you refer to, and a country with a GDP of 17 Trillion USD.

Russia's GDP in comparison is only about the same as Turkey's on a per capita basis.

These are not valid comparisons.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

There's no denying that the US is the main armaments producer on the planet.

However:

US GDP - $18.57 trillion
% spent on defence - 3.1 - $610 billion

% of world arms sales - 33

Russian GDP - $1.28 trillion
% spent on defence - 4.5 - $69 billion

% of world arms sales - 20

So, despite it's much lower GDP, (the Rouble has tanked - due to "events") Russia sells an enormous amount of weapons because of course, other than oil and gas that's just about it. There's no Russian Apple, IBM, Intel, Facebook, General Motors (et al). etc, etc, etc.

Whilst both are obviously not innocents - which do you think looks more like the "Military/Industrial complex?"

I won't post the combined amount of NATO GDP. It would upset all the "Whatever you do, don't dare bait the Bear/Diamond backed rattler" disciples.

[Pyrpolizer]

So what!

It's also the Biggest Country out of the above you refer to, and a country with a GDP of 17 Trillion USD.

Russia's GDP in comparison is only about the same as Turkey's on a per capita basis.

These are not valid comparisons.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

There's no denying that the US is the main armaments producer on the planet.

However:

US GDP - $18.57 trillion
% spent on defence - 3.1 - $610 billion

% of world arms sales - 33

Russian GDP - $1.28 trillion
% spent on defence - 4.5 - $69 billion

% of world arms sales - 20

So, despite it's much lower GDP, (the Rouble has tanked - due to "events") Russia sells an enormous amount of weapons because of course, other than oil and gas that's just about it. There's no Russian Apple, IBM, Intel, Facebook, General Motors (et al). etc, etc, etc.

Whilst both are obviously not innocents - which do you think looks more like the "Military/Industrial complex?"

I won't post the combined amount of NATO GDP. It would upset all the "Whatever you do, don't dare bait the Bear/Diamond backed rattler" disciples.

I am not willing to discuss such an issue with figures out of anyone's head without any reliable links.

For a start here's imo a reliable database:
https://www.sipri.org/databases/armsindustry

Total in 2016 of sold armaments worth 1,135,905b
the US in 2016 sold armaments worth 666,250b (58%)
Russia in 2016 sold armaments worth 34,953b (3%)
UK in 2016 sold armaments worth 71,736 b (6.3%)

Total in 2015 of sold armaments worth 1,281,531b
the US in 2015 sold armaments worth 756,274b (59%)
Russia in 2015 sold armaments worth 48,415b (3.8%)
UK in 2015 sold armaments worth 81,167 b (6.3%)

We could continue with reliable links for the remaining figures if anyone would like to talk seriously.

[Paphitis]

So what!

It's also the Biggest Country out of the above you refer to, and a country with a GDP of 17 Trillion USD.

Russia's GDP in comparison is only about the same as Turkey's on a per capita basis.

These are not valid comparisons.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

There's no denying that the US is the main armaments producer on the planet.

However:

US GDP - $18.57 trillion
% spent on defence - 3.1 - $610 billion

% of world arms sales - 33

Russian GDP - $1.28 trillion
% spent on defence - 4.5 - $69 billion

% of world arms sales - 20

So, despite it's much lower GDP, (the Rouble has tanked - due to "events") Russia sells an enormous amount of weapons because of course, other than oil and gas that's just about it. There's no Russian Apple, IBM, Intel, Facebook, General Motors (et al). etc, etc, etc.

Whilst both are obviously not innocents - which do you think looks more like the "Military/Industrial complex?"

I won't post the combined amount of NATO GDP. It would upset all the "Whatever you do, don't dare bait the Bear/Diamond backed rattler" disciples.

You don't need to convince me!

The US Arms Industry is only a small percentage of the American GDP. The USA , as you say, has countless more industrial output and the likes of Microsoft, Apple, General Motors, Intel, Tesla and so on.

Russia has nothing like that at all.

Even if the American Arms Industry shut down overnight, it wouldn't be good for the American economy but it would hardly bring the USA to its knees whereas that is not the case for Russia. Russia would literally implode.

[Pyrpolizer]

You don't need to convince me!

The US Arms Industry is only a small percentage of the American GDP. The USA , as you say, has countless more industrial output and the likes of Microsoft, Apple, General Motors, Intel, Tesla and so on.

Do you know how much a 1% of primary wealth might boost a nation’s GDP? Would you be surprised to learn it may boost it up by 13%? The reason is very simple: Because primary wealth recirculates multiple times. Isn’t this the reason the whole EU (and a lot of other countries) subsidize agricultural products?
Countries like Saudi Arabia make up 80-90% of their GDP from primary wealth (oil). A huge part of Australia's GDP is also made up from mining. And Russia's of course from oil/gas exports.
Arms production is not primary wealth though, It ‘s industrial production, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn it may boost the GDP up by 3-4% for each 1% of output.

Russia has nothing like that at all.

Even if the American Arms Industry shut down overnight, it wouldn't be good for the American economy but it would hardly bring the USA to its knees whereas that is not the case for Russia. Russia would literally implode.

You are wrong. I will assume arms exports and arms local consumption are about equal.
Both countries' arms exports are exactly 3.6% of their own GDP.
If the arms industry in both countries were shut down completely then their GDP of both would fall by the exact same percentage (I estimate it to about 10%.)

However arms production (including local consumption+exports) are just a small portion of what makes America’s GDP war dependent...

[Robin Hood]

Londonrake:

RH
You're right. These posts are becoming far too convoluted. I'm sure it's doing anybody who has the stamina to follow them's heads in.

(Did you mean “ I’m sure this is doing the head in of anyone who has the stamina to follow it!”) Tut tut tut .... could do better!

Despite the - bludgeon, bludgeon, bludgeon, ( ) it's really dead simple.

You (RH) said " .........they ignore Israel's continuous threats to use their own nuclear weapons on Iran......." . That's a completely unambiguous statement. Anybody got a problem with that view?

I asked - where's the proof? Or, as you have repeated ad-infinitum on the Skripal thread, the evidence. (hypocrisy?)

The answer of course is that there is none. The statement is a total fabrication. No such threats have ever been issued.

My answer before you even asked the question, was/is ‘...... really dead simple’ and based on common sense and a pragmatic consideration of preceding events, had you bothered to read it! Or was it to ‘....convoluted’ for you?

01/05/18 @ 6;57

RH said ......” Who else other than Iran does Israel need nukes to defend them selves from .....maybe Kuwait/Jordan/Syria/Lebanon/Egypt/Cyprus/Saudi etc.? Their main enemy IS Iran and yes, like most comments they are my opinion which are better informed than some.”

For anyone with more than two brain cells they would realize that ANY threat against Iran by Israel is inevitably NUCLEAR. Israel is a rogue nuclear nation, the Worlds fifth largest and the ONLY State in the region with nukes.

On the other hand Iran has none and all evidence says they ceased further development toward creating nuclear weapons when the 'Mad Mullahs' took over from the compassionate and much loved Shah Reza. However, if you read about the Iran/Iraq war you will note that when the IRG Generals wanted to use the Shahs stockpile of chemical weapons, Khomeini declared it to be against the teachings of their Holy Book and the Will of their prophet and refused to allow it in spite of over a million dead Iranians.

Think about that Einstein ....... they had the chance to use WMD’s and declared them Haram! Now be honest. If Iran and Israel faced a conventional war, without US backing (i.e. Boots on the ground + their nuclear arsenal + their missiles + their aircraft) ....... Israel would lose. Take a look and a listen to Netanyahu? Now tell me his religious principals would prevent him from using nukes to save his sorry ass?

So when you think about it ........ ALL Israeli threats against Iran are inevitably a nuclear threat. Given the same situation anywhere in the ME, any conflict involving Israel will end up nuclear if they realize they are losing.