Cyprus-Forum.com

[yialousa1971]

to my buddy YiALOUSA



The launch of a non-nuclear ICBM, however, would be considered so threatening that it would demand a nuclear response, eliminating any military value of such a weapon...."




BOOM!!!! game over insert coin

Game over for Israel (Iran has stated if they are attacked they will go for the one that issues the orders.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

You consider yourself an 'intelligent' man because you hold many alternative views (which does not bother me btw),

No! Not particularly intelligent but interested in the overall scene in the region and therefore maybe better informed than most. This is a forum for discussion hopefully between moderately intelligent people and by this we all get to see aspects that maybe never occurred to us until someone else made an observation.

At this point Robin, I am willing to accept assistance from the likes of Israel and US since Russia, Greece, EU et al are just full of shit!

IMO: I believe the history of both those nations makes reliance upon either a very dangerous liason. Both work exclusively in their own, and joint, interests. If it suited either to work against Cyprus’ interests for their own gain ........ they would do so without a second though for either the RoC or its people. What if they decided it was in their interests to go the opposite way to your suggestion and encouraged the Turks to finish what they started in ’74?

I got to disagree with you Robin Hood.

I firmly believe that the US will never hinder or harm its most trusted allies no matter what. They have proven this over and over again. In fact, they would very likely go to war for their true allies without a second thought. I can give you many examples. Australia, NZ, Canada, UK, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Israel, Jordan just to name a few.

That is what upsets me the most. The RoC has invested very little time and money in establishing links with the US yet the countries mentioned above view it as key. We unfortunately put ourselves into a situation where the US viewed Cyprus as a hindrance to their strategic goals in the Middle East. Our politicians never had a right to do this, yet they played Russian Roulette with the RoC's National Security when in actual fact a country of our size can't really play these types of political games. Therefore, in my opinion, we became their target when we should never have been. Responsible politicians will only work to serve RoC National Interests and RoC National Security , but this never happened.

Maybe it is because many RoC politicians and many Cypriots, some of which frequent this forum, wanted to destroy the RoC as an entity so that Greece can be bought into the fray and so they can achieve ENOSIS.

Pretty sad state of affairs. If we were smart Robin, the US would never allow an invasion of Cyprus by either Greece or Turkey and it would have always been around protecting RoC Territorial Integrity if we were a US ally like many countries I mentioned. The price for this blanket US coverage and protection was very small and realistic. All they wanted was for Cyprus to be more closely aligned with NATO interests and perhaps allow US Forces free access to Cyprus as they please. I really couldn't give a damn about this type of arrangement, but I am really worried about Turkey firmly entrenching itself on the island.

What upsets me is how so many Cypriots are in denial and can't see reality or the bigger political picture. They write against the US because they are a superpower. People don't like a tall poppy and would love to see the US collapse and fall on its face. This may happen one day. But you can always guarantee that they will bounce back because they have industry, technology and vision. They will be a major power for the next 100 years, but they will have some competition from China.

Robin, the countries that have close liaisons with the US have never really suffered.

[Paphitis]

Every single time the US has been there.

In WW2, while our troops were in South East Asia, the Mediterranean, Africa and Europe, they were on our soil preparing for the Defence of Australia. There were more American Troops than Australian on our turf.

The Japanese were headed straight for us, and they would have defeated us, because we had no one back home defending our own continent. We had fewer than 100,000 troops on our own soil.

The Americans defended us like they would defend California. Would they do it again? I have no doubt about it!

Do they owe us? Yes they do and they know and recognize it too!

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:
Thank you for taking time to formulate a very polite reply. It is all food for thought in these turbulent times and deserves a proper reply .... my apologies for the screed but I tend to write an explanation rather than one liners!

If you are talking about the American people I whole heartedly agree with your conclusions. But we are looking at the US Government and that has changed out of all recognition since the end of WWII. The US started to change politically and in their attitude to the rest of the world in the late forties at around the same time as another event, the unilateral declaration of the State of Israel and it is interesting to note that the US were the first to recognise Israel within hours of the declaration.

Israel was created by terrorist groups, Urgun, Hagana and the Stern gang who were even more brutal, with thousands of civilian murders to their name, than they accuse Hezbollah of being today. Virtually every leader of Israel since its creation has links back to these organisations. The influence of Zionism on the US has grown exponentially to the point where the attitude and the actions of both governments are almost mirror images of one another. Both have a total disregard for International Law and International Conventions. The only real difference is the scale but, they act as an integrated organisation with a common agenda, that being their own self interests.

So whilst I have no problems with the American people or the Israeli people I believe that Zionism’s influence on successive US Administration’s since the late forties in particular, has reduced the US to the point of being Israel’s lap dog and that it is the tail wagging the dog. Hence my distrust of both and my belief that either will say anything or do anything to suit their own ends and that if it suited Israel to encourage Turkey to make further trouble for Cyprus or indeed annex its oil/gas fields at some future date they would do so and the US would either give them support or look the other way.

But back to the OP ..... IRAN.

The overthrow of the Mossadeq government in Iran in 1953, that was one of the so called ‘conspiracy theories’ for some time, has now been confirmed quite recently as having been engineered by the CIA and MI6 to protect their respective countries commercial interests. The UK and the US installed the Shah as their puppet government and introduced 28 years of terror and oppression for the Iranian people. It was no surprise then that when the US got fed up with the Shah they helped orchestrate another change of government and up popped Khomeini, someone no doubt the US thought they would be able to manipulate. They didn’t realise that Muslims do not just pay lip service to their religion, it rules their lives! So with 28 years of hatred for what the US had imposed on them they turned against the ‘Great Satan’ as they saw the US and also against Israel because of theircriminal actions against the Palestinians.

Since 1979, just like they did with Cuba and other countries that fail to toe the US line, they imposed ever more stringent sanctions on the Iranian regime, which of course builds up even more resentment in the Iranian people. It was during the Shah’s time that Iran started its nuclear programme with help from France and ...... Israel! The sanctions have been increased to the point of destroying the country’s economy and leading the assault is the State of Israel and their totally unsupported accusations of Iran expanding a nuclear program to create a nuclear deterrent. This comes from a rogue nuclear nation that has a string of human rights abuses and even war crimes hanging round its neck by UNGA and the UNSC resolutions, all of which they ignore. Unlike Iran, Israel is not a signatory to the Nuclear NPT and has never had its nuclear (nor its biological and chemical weapons facilities) inspected by the International Community. Israel is always supported and protected by the US using their veto in the UNSC when required to protect their ‘tail’.

The Israeli’s know that if they overstep the mark in their quest for dominance in the region and Syria and Iran were to combine their forces and were joined by Hezbollah, they would be up against a force to be reckoned with.
The actions in Syria are to degrade their military ability to the point where Assad is deposed. That will leave just Iran to deal with and to deal with that Israel, using the US, needs to degrade its capability to resist Israel’s hegemony. Hence the continuous stream of anti-Iran rhetoric that pours out of Netanyahu’s camp regarding Iran’s fictitious nuclear weapons program. Just like other nations that the US has attacked in the region on behalf of Israel, they need an excuse for military action.

Iran is the ultimate prize for US/Israel and they are determined to take Iran by any means possible. If the sanctions don’t do it then a few US blockbusters will encourage them to give in to the will of the US/Israel and if that fails, then the US/Israel will resort to a nuclear attack!

BUT by the resent turn in events it looks as if the people are beginning to see through this charade of continuous war and their voices are being heard to the extent that decisions that would normally passed with no opposition are now being routed. Maybe things are beginning to turn around and whether you accept there is a NWO or not, it will gradually but certainly spread through International Society and the 1% will start to feel the wrath of the People.

Power to the People .........

[miltiades]

how right Pafitis is by stating that had Cyprus forged closer relationships with the USA, given them bases, access to our airspace, the Turkish invasion and subsequent occupation of our northern parts would never have taken place. Instead our political and very naive political masters chose alliances with non entities, nations who harboured anti American sentiments in line with their own.

Some on this forum are so consumed with blatant hatred of America and in particular our now closest ally, the state of Israel, and have not the slightest common sense to see that it is in the interests of our island that we throw our full support behind America. Not so according to one psychopath, who actually believes that his sentiments are born out of his ....humanitarian feelings.

LONG LIVE AMERICA THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH, AFTER CYPRUS !!

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:
Thank you for taking time to formulate a very polite reply. It is all food for thought in these turbulent times and deserves a proper reply .... my apologies for the screed but I tend to write an explanation rather than one liners!

If you are talking about the American people I whole heartedly agree with your conclusions. But we are looking at the US Government and that has changed out of all recognition since the end of WWII. The US started to change politically and in their attitude to the rest of the world in the late forties at around the same time as another event, the unilateral declaration of the State of Israel and it is interesting to note that the US were the first to recognise Israel within hours of the declaration.

Israel was created by terrorist groups, Urgun, Hagana and the Stern gang who were even more brutal, with thousands of civilian murders to their name, than they accuse Hezbollah of being today. Virtually every leader of Israel since its creation has links back to these organisations. The influence of Zionism on the US has grown exponentially to the point where the attitude and the actions of both governments are almost mirror images of one another. Both have a total disregard for International Law and International Conventions. The only real difference is the scale but, they act as an integrated organisation with a common agenda, that being their own self interests.

So whilst I have no problems with the American people or the Israeli people I believe that Zionism’s influence on successive US Administration’s since the late forties in particular, has reduced the US to the point of being Israel’s lap dog and that it is the tail wagging the dog. Hence my distrust of both and my belief that either will say anything or do anything to suit their own ends and that if it suited Israel to encourage Turkey to make further trouble for Cyprus or indeed annex its oil/gas fields at some future date they would do so and the US would either give them support or look the other way.

But back to the OP ..... IRAN.

The overthrow of the Mossadeq government in Iran in 1953, that was one of the so called ‘conspiracy theories’ for some time, has now been confirmed quite recently as having been engineered by the CIA and MI6 to protect their respective countries commercial interests. The UK and the US installed the Shah as their puppet government and introduced 28 years of terror and oppression for the Iranian people. It was no surprise then that when the US got fed up with the Shah they helped orchestrate another change of government and up popped Khomeini, someone no doubt the US thought they would be able to manipulate. They didn’t realise that Muslims do not just pay lip service to their religion, it rules their lives! So with 28 years of hatred for what the US had imposed on them they turned against the ‘Great Satan’ as they saw the US and also against Israel because of theircriminal actions against the Palestinians.

Since 1979, just like they did with Cuba and other countries that fail to toe the US line, they imposed ever more stringent sanctions on the Iranian regime, which of course builds up even more resentment in the Iranian people. It was during the Shah’s time that Iran started its nuclear programme with help from France and ...... Israel! The sanctions have been increased to the point of destroying the country’s economy and leading the assault is the State of Israel and their totally unsupported accusations of Iran expanding a nuclear program to create a nuclear deterrent. This comes from a rogue nuclear nation that has a string of human rights abuses and even war crimes hanging round its neck by UNGA and the UNSC resolutions, all of which they ignore. Unlike Iran, Israel is not a signatory to the Nuclear NPT and has never had its nuclear (nor its biological and chemical weapons facilities) inspected by the International Community. Israel is always supported and protected by the US using their veto in the UNSC when required to protect their ‘tail’.

The Israeli’s know that if they overstep the mark in their quest for dominance in the region and Syria and Iran were to combine their forces and were joined by Hezbollah, they would be up against a force to be reckoned with.
The actions in Syria are to degrade their military ability to the point where Assad is deposed. That will leave just Iran to deal with and to deal with that Israel, using the US, needs to degrade its capability to resist Israel’s hegemony. Hence the continuous stream of anti-Iran rhetoric that pours out of Netanyahu’s camp regarding Iran’s fictitious nuclear weapons program. Just like other nations that the US has attacked in the region on behalf of Israel, they need an excuse for military action.

Iran is the ultimate prize for US/Israel and they are determined to take Iran by any means possible. If the sanctions don’t do it then a few US blockbusters will encourage them to give in to the will of the US/Israel and if that fails, then the US/Israel will resort to a nuclear attack!

BUT by the resent turn in events it looks as if the people are beginning to see through this charade of continuous war and their voices are being heard to the extent that decisions that would normally passed with no opposition are now being routed. Maybe things are beginning to turn around and whether you accept there is a NWO or not, it will gradually but certainly spread through International Society and the 1% will start to feel the wrath of the People.

Power to the People .........

Robin Hood,

you put your argument forward very well!

I really can't dispute most of the things you say but I will just make some minor points.

The State of Israel had to be created somewhere. The geography which now contains the State of Israel is quite troublesome, not just for them, but for the entire world. But where else can they go? It is their original homeland, from well before the arrival of Muslims. Also, I think you are wildly overstating the role of Zionism and their "terrorist" elements. In the end, Palestinians will need to find a way to coexist with Isarel. If you provide all people with their basic needs, then they will coexist but it will take a lot of time to build trust.

The US has an agenda. I think most of us are unsure exactly what this agenda is. In fact, it doesn't quite make sense because they appear to be eager to support regime change and support terrorist groups such as the FSA which include Al Qaeda elements. If they take control of Syria, they will gain access to the very capable Syrian Armed Forces. I doubt the limited action of the US will reduce their capability significantly enough. Therefore, the new FSA regime, will be very militant towards Israel, significantly destabilizing the Middle East far more than Assad ever would.

However, if Assad is responsible for the chemical attacks, then he should be held accountable in some way. If it is the terrorist rebels, then they must be disarmed and destroyed.

In my opinion, it would be more sensible for the US (and Israel) to actually assist in maintaining the current Assad regime. It would help maintain some control over fundamentalist groups in Syria. As I said, we are really not certain what the agenda is, but if it is about the Oil and Gas, then Cyprus may well be a big beneficiary.

My argument all revolves around the fact that Cyprus is in no position to take any sides. I think taking Syria's side would be a grave mistake given our current position relating to our resources with Israel, and the support we need to garnish from these big players. This position would be no different to the political stance of many nations around the world, such as the likes of UK, France, Germany, Australia, Canada and many more. This Foreign Policy has served many countries very well over the years. We need to do what is right for Cyprus, above all else. Taking the side of Russia and Syria will not get us anywhere and our island is occupied still.

In fact, in the old days, AKEL supporters would say things like Russia will defend Cyprus. Yes well, after 39 years, they are still AWOL. We are in a NATO/EU pond, and we can't be prodding the Lion's bum with a stick.

All the best, and yes I am actually quite open minded to what you are saying in the most part. Some minor points of difference exist though.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

An interesting reply much of it I would go along with, in fact I really can’t find anything to argue about ........... which is unusual for me.

The State of Israel had to be created somewhere...........

There were several locations that were looked at as a homeland for the Jewish people and one of them was actually Cyprus! If you look at the Balfour Declaration of 1917, one of the conditions for British support for a Jewish State in Palestine was ‘....(Britain) will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine’ Had the Zionist respected that condition we would not have the problems in the ME that we have today. I think it is more a case of Israel coexisting with the incumbent population of Palestine than the other way round and that gets tougher to achieve by the day.

There is a uncanny similarity between what happened in Palestine from 1948 and what happened here in 1974, the difference is that for the Palestinians, it has been an ongoing process for 65 years and I have often thought it strange that Cypriots do not have more empathy for the Palestinians than they appear to have.

Zionism is a political organisation that was created in the late 1800’s with the sole objective of creating a Jewish homeland. Yes, the Jewish people deserved a homeland but the Zionists never played by the rules to get it in the first place and have done nothing but make matters worse since. If you look at the story from the beginnings of Zionism, through the events surrounding WWI; the period immediately after that war; the declaration of war made by the Zionists against Germany, which then collapsed the German economy; through events that led up to the Holocaust and the way Israel came into being in 1948, it is a fascinating story of absolute intrigue, dastardly back stabbing and political maneuvering. I separate Jews (Judaism – a Religion) and Israeli’s (A Nationality) from Zionism which I don’t regard as terrorists as such bur more like an extreme political organisation (I won’t draw a comparison!)

The US has an agenda..................

a long term agenda I believe

It is all linked back, believe it or not, to banking and Zionism. I may sound paranoid about this but my interest originated in banking and it soon becomes clear as I found out how banking worked and how money is created, that it is all about Power, Money and politics and at the heart of all of it is Zionism. It would take hours to explain it on here so I won’t but, I have come to my own conclusions from reading the history behind events going back some 150-200 years, in fact further back even, if you need to look at ALL the detail. Again, an interesting story but you need to have an interest to take the trouble to read it all up.

The agenda is Iran! Iran is the goal and has been since before WWII. The American agenda is to protect their ‘friends’ in the region as the Syrian army could be a threat to Israeli hegemony. For the Israeli’s the best solution in Syria is to give the rebels arms so that the civil war degrades Assad’s ability to remain an ever present threat to Israel and the war continues into infinity, until nobody and nothing, is left standing. If the rebels win they will spend the next thousand years fighting amongst themselves and will present little threat to Israel. Once Syria quietens down, the next target is Iran and it is as much based on lies and distortion of facts as the Kosovo and 2nd Gulf war and every war since, that the US has instigated either overtly or covertly ...... their finger is always in the pie somewhere!

If it is PROVED that Assad was responsible for the gas attack(s) then he is a war criminal and should be dealt with by the ICC through due process ............ not a posse sent out from the US to nail him and a few hundred thousand more Syrian’s! On this Putin is correct, it will lead to more hatred and resentment and as a result more terrorism. Assad has agreed to the Putin plan so the US should give it time to be put into action.

If it is proved that is was the rebels then the US and their allies should cease to fund, support and arm them. (I believe that should be the case anyway as to support terrorism is an International crime) Assad, like any of these ME despots can deal with the rebels, the only reason that the civil war has gone on for so long is because the US support has kept the balance to the point that no side is winning, just more people dying. A bit like they did in the Iran/Iraq war? When Saddam looked like winning the US supported Iran through the Iran/Contra operation.

I have always avoided getting involved in discussions on the Cyprus Problem or Cypriot politics in general. ‘IF’ is a wonderful word ....... ‘If my Aunty had been born with testicles she would have been my Uncle.’! I would say to Cyprus .... keep a low profile, don’t take sides, be nice to everybody (especially us English that live here ), sort out corruption and nepotism and get your house in order! Cyprus needs a very strong leader to do that and unfortunately I don’t see one!

Have a nice day and keep the posts coming I enjoy reading them.

[supporttheunderdog]

Isreal came into existence following the decisions reached in UN resolution 181(II) of 29th November 2007 which provided for the end of the British Mandate in Palestine by Mid 19489 and the establishment of separate Jewish and Arab within two months, but by the latest 1st October 1948.

Britain withdrew from the mandate on 14th May 1948, the day the state of Israel was declared as existing, as envisaged by the UN.

[Robin Hood]

Supporttheunderdog:

Israel came into existence following the decisions reached in UN resolution 181(II) of 29th November 2007 (1947)

It was not quite that straight forward .................. if you really do ‘support the underdog’, this will be right up your street!

Unfortunately, Resolution 181 (II) of 29th Nov 1947 was never implemented.

On the 14th May 1948, by unilateral declaration the Jewish State in Eretz, (Israel) was declared by David Ben-Gurion and hence forth came to be known as The State of Israel. The boundaries as laid down in Resolution 181 (II) were never adhered to and to this day Israel is the only state on the planet with no officially defined boundaries as it has expanded relentlessly since that day and hence the animosity between The State of Israel’s Zionist government and the Arab world. Harry Truman recognised the Zionist’s declared State of Israel within hours.


FWIW: If you are really interested, this has an abundance of information on the subject going back to the Khazars and the origin of the Ashkenazi Jews and with a lot of well documented history .............. and should keep you busy for a few months. No information can ever be 100% reliable but I found most of these articles credible and very informative, especially the series of articles by Benjamin Freedman as he was around at the time (WWI) and in a position to know.

http://bearcanada.com/fae/israel/historyofisraelintro.html

and/or

http://bearcanada.com/fae/israel/palestine.html

This site’IfAmericansKnew’, also has a good bit of information on more recent events, although it is biased toward the Palestinian angle. The site was started by an American journalist Alison Wier, who went to Israel on an assignment for a US News Paper and visited Gaza. Whilst there she realised that what she was seeing was nothing like what was being reported in the US. So she quit her job and founded the ‘IfAmericansKnew’ web site and tried to put the other point of view. The tab ‘US Interests – War on Iran’ is applicable to this thread and has several interesting articles on the subject.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[GreekIslandGirl]

Exactly why we should not view Israel as anything more than a business partner that suits us and them ... for the moment!