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Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:50 am

Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:NO, as I stated before we both go our own way and pursue our own agendas.

I am asking what the TCs can do to escape their predicament of assimilation, colonization and isolation? Have you any suggestions, VP?


Why should we want to do anything, we accepted our fate in 1974, why are you so concerned we are not. TCs marry Turks and make more TCs called new generation TCs.

I am not too bothered at all. I am referring to the comments of Talat and Ecil above. They clearly have not accepted their "fate" as you put it. What options do they have? Are demonstrations and general strikes the way to go? Will it be enough?


They had their opportunity they can strike all they wish wont change a thing....so dont worry yourself the north 37% of the island will continue to evolve as it has done in the past 38 years. You people are just not clever nor ingenious enough to find a solution.
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Hermes » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:38 am

Viewpoint wrote: You people are just not clever nor ingenious enough to find a solution.


We're clever enough to have joined the EU, blocked Turkey's EU accession, kept up the legal and economic pressure on the pirate state, formed alliances to keep the British and Turks from achieving their goal, and gone and discovered gas in the process. Now that strikes me as pretty clever and ingenious for such a small country.

Meanwhile, the giant Turkey, with all its so-called military might and economic muscle, just can't exercise its will on the Greek Cypriots. What does that make Turkey? Not very clever and not very ingenious, I'd say. In fact, it makes them look like dumb, impotent fools...
Last edited by Hermes on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Hermes » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:55 am

Get Real! wrote:Paphitis has a point here Hermes so why don’t you answer him?

He is saying that if GCs have been Greekified (according to you) then why should TCs worry about being Turkified?


TCs are the ones complaining about being "Turkified". Pay attention. :roll:

You and a few other Greek nationalists here go out of your way to exalt this foreign colonization yet you don’t recommend it for TCs!


What foreign colonization have I exalted for Greek Cypriots? Have you lost leave of your senses? :o

Could it be that you assume that Greekification is very good whereas Turkification is very bad? If so why is that… explain yourself!

"Greekification"? What on earth are you talking about? Listen pea-brain, the Greeks adapted the Cypriot syllabary to create the Greek alphabet. Thus Cyprus contributes to the development of Greek language. Then the Greek alphabet replaces the Cypriot syllabary. Thus Cyprus begets Greece which begets Cyprus. It's self-reinforcing. Dynamic. It's not a one-way relationship. The Cypriot origins of Hellenic civilisation are also the Hellenic origins of Cypriot civilisation. Now, hard as it is, try and think dynamically and not statically. Otherwise you'll end up sounding like an advocate for some kind of bizarre Stone Age nostalgia - which is a pretty embarrassing place for a grown man to be. :shock:
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Get Real! » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:22 am

Hermes wrote:"Greekification"? What on earth are you talking about? Listen pea-brain, the Greeks adapted the Cypriot syllabary to create the Greek alphabet. Thus Cyprus contributes to the development of Greek language. Then the Greek alphabet replaces the Cypriot syllabary. Thus Cyprus begets Greece which begets Cyprus. It's self-reinforcing. Dynamic. It's not a one-way relationship. The Cypriot origins of Hellenic civilisation are also the Hellenic origins of Cypriot civilisation. Now, hard as it is, try and think dynamically and not statically. Otherwise you'll end up sounding like an advocate for some kind of bizarre Stone Age nostalgia - which is a pretty embarrassing place for a grown man to be. :shock:

And then you woke up and realized you had wetted your bed…

Paphitis was correct… you’re just a hypocritical idiot trying to be clever!

So here is your thread question reversed on behalf of the TCs…

Given that the failure of the current talks has left the GCs cut adrift, isolated, facing assimilation and further Greek colonization, is there nothing they can do to help themselves? Is it all over for the GCs? Is there anything to be done?


Open big Greek mouth and insert smelly Hellenic foot… :wink:
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby boulio » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:54 am

"Greekification"? What on earth are you talking about? Listen pea-brain, the Greeks adapted the Cypriot syllabary to create the Greek alphabet. Thus Cyprus contributes to the development of Greek language. Then the Greek alphabet replaces the Cypriot syllabary. Thus Cyprus begets Greece which begets Cyprus. It's self-reinforcing. Dynamic. It's not a one-way relationship. The Cypriot origins of Hellenic civilisation are also the Hellenic origins of Cypriot civilisation. Now, hard as it is, try and think dynamically and not statically. Otherwise you'll end up sounding like an advocate for some kind of bizarre Stone Age nostalgia - which is a pretty embarrassing place for a grown man to be



Finally someone is standing up to this moron gr ,bravo hermes.
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Me Ed » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:04 am

The short answer is yes.

The International community knows that the Turks ethnically cleansed the Cypriots from the north and is now systematically cleansing the remaining Cypriots from the north.

VP may justify this by calling the settlers, next generation Cypriots, but she is fooling nobody.

When there are no Cypriots left in the occupied area it will not only mean absolutely no recognition, but on a legal basis, it will make it easier for the UN to remove the occupier.
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Lordo » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:37 am

Can anybody spare a battery for the old clock?
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby Me Ed » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:44 am

Lordo wrote:Can anybody spare a battery for the old clock?

Ask Pauul, tick tock tick tock.
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby bill cobbett » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:51 am

Lordo wrote:Can anybody spare a battery for the old clock?


Les piles sont incluses

Батареи прилагаются

电池包括
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Re: Is Time Running Out For the Turkish Cypriots?

Postby zan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:27 am

Me Ed wrote:The short answer is yes.

The International community knows that the Turks ethnically cleansed the Cypriots from the north and is now systematically cleansing the remaining Cypriots from the north.

VP may justify this by calling the settlers, next generation Cypriots, but she is fooling nobody.

When there are no Cypriots left in the occupied area it will not only mean absolutely no recognition, but on a legal basis, it will make it easier for the UN to remove the occupier.




CONCLUSION
he 2006 TRNC census results that correspond both with my own earlier study as well as other studies and complementary data clearly demonstrates that, contrary to the widely held view that the Turkish Cypriot population has shrunk since 1974, it has in
fact grown.126 The population of Turkish Cypriots in 1974 was almost 118,000; the census results show that out of the 178,031 TRNC citizens, the current native Turkish Cypriot population (one or both parents born in Cyprus) now numbers 132,635.127
Overall, it can be observed that since the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus in 1960, the proportional size of the island’s Turkish Cypriot population (including those TRNC citizens who have their origins in Turkey) has not changed significantly in comparison to that of the Greek Cypriot population. The argument that the demographics of the north have been altered through immigration is hardly a groundless one, but the change is not as radical as has been claimed. There was indeed a concerted effort to settle mainland Turks on the island from 1975 until 1979, during which around 15,000 were successfully settled. According to the 2006 census, 11,925 TRNC citizens of Turkish origin declared that they arrived in Cyprus before 1979. In addition, over the course of more than three decades, this population of non-Cyprus-born citizens has increased through naturalization or assisted naturalization by marriage. If we include the children of these naturalized citizens (both parents born in Turkey), non-‘native’ TRNC citizens account for 24% of the total TRNC citizen population. However, the 1960 ethnic ratio of the population of the entire island has been altered by less than 3%, where the Turkish Cypriot percentage rose from 18.4 to 21. I think it is worth emphasizing that in a united Cyprus with a projected population of over one million, 42,000 additional naturalized Turks who would constitute 3-4 per cent of the total population (and of whom 16,000 were born in the island) should hardly be an impediment to solving a problem that has continued for more than four decades to the detriment of all Cypriots.
Moreover, this study has sought to show that non-citizen resident populations on both sides of the island are numerically significant, as well as to discuss the political, social and economic reasons that led to this situation. According to census results and additional evidence compiled from various administrative sources in the north, there are approximately
126 In my previous study, I estimated the percentage of naturalized Turkish nationals to be 20-25 per cent of the citizen population of the TRNC. In addition to naturalized Turkish nationals, it was estimated in my report that there were another 40-45,000 immigrant workers (both documented and undocumented) from Turkey who were staying in north Cyprus. Student numbers (slightly higher in 2006) and the total population (census results are slightly lower) also correspond with the preliminary census results. For more details, see Hatay, Beyond Numbers. The other study which corresponds with the census results appeared in Yeniduzen. See: Naci Taşeli, ‘Rakamların Diliyle Seçmen Listeleri’ Yenidüzen, (Nicosia, 1 November 2003).
127 Around 12,000 of this figure, 132, 635 persons have one parent born abroad.
48 Is the Turkish Cypriot Population Shrinking?
78,000 foreign citizens currently resident on the island, almost 70,000 of these from Turkey. This non-citizen populace which has no voting rights is comprised primarily of students and immigrant workers whose stay on the island is considered temporary. For similar reasons, the southern part of the island is also home to 110,200 foreign permanent residents (excluding 10,000-30,000 illegal immigrants). The non-citizen resident population in the south generally includes European Union (EU) citizens with second homes in Cyprus; workers from Bulgaria, Romania and Poland; Pontus Greeks from Russia and Georgia who settled in Cyprus during the 1990s and some of whom carry Greek passports; many persons from Eastern Europe; and a variety of domestic workers from countries such as Sri Lanka and the Philippines. It is also important to note that in the south, EU citizens who are not also citizens of the Republic have the right to vote in local and EU parliamentary elections. Naturally, none of these categories are static. A migrant worker can become a citizen, for instance, if he remains legally on the island long enough. Students in the north, like students all over the world, can choose to remain in the town where they studied for many years after their studies are complete. Likewise, a TRNC citizen of Turkish origin may return to Turkey because he feels life will be better there. As long as the stalemate between the two sides on the island continues, it is inevitable that the demographics of each part of the island will
develop separately, as is happening in all other spheres of life in Cyprus. One important part of this political stalement has been the ‘war of numbers’ that this report discusses. Unlike many other ‘wars,’ this is one that could easily be ended by the involvement of international monitoring agencies. The involvement of international agencies has been hindered by local politics, and especially by the question of sovereignty. For while the Republic considers any international cooperation with the Turkish Cypriot government to be recognition by implication, previous governments in the north have insisted that any international involvement should be undertaken through the Turkish Cypriot administration’s auspices, precisely in order to achieve a type of implied recognition. The issue, however, is too important to be held hostage to the unresolved question of sovereignty, and a middle
road needs to be found that would make international monitoring feasible. The most likely middle road would make its way through the political parties in the north, which, unlike the Turkish Cypriot government, are recognized as legitimate political entities by the Republic and the international community. Moreover, it is the political parties themselves who have been most active both in criticizing immigration policies and in providing misleading information to the public. Hence, a committee constituted of representatives of all political parties in the north would have the capacity to review the census results in collaboration with international experts on demography, without this cooperation implying recognition of the Turkish Cypriot state. With the aid of experts in demography, it would be possible to identify other sources of information that might complement or supplement the census results, as I have also attempted to do in this report. Census data may be compared against work permits, birth and death registrations, electoral rolls, and other similar data. Such an international committee would also have the capability
Conclusion 49
to more fully review census data for host countries of Turkish Cypriot emigrants such as the UK and Australia.
This report has discussed the ‘war of numbers’ primarily as a political issue with important implications for resolution of the Cyprus problem. The local effect of this ‘war,’ however, has been to turn people into numbers and what should be humanitarian issues into political tools. Fear created by misleading information has made it impossible to have sensible discussions about immigration policies and social issues, such as work and health conditions of immigrants. In addition, it has created a climate of socially acceptable discrimination that overlooks important issues of human rights. It is only by ending this ‘war’ that it will be possible to see these numbers as people and to think about their concerns not simply in the context of a bicommunal politics but in the broader context of an increasingly multicultural Cyprus and its integration into the EU framework.

http://www.prio.no/upload/Is%20the%20Tu ... inking.pdf
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